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  • #16
    charlz wrote: View Post
    [B]SWeems /AJohnson /DDerozen /EDavis /JJohnson /JBayless /LBarbosa/AAjinca/Evans /3rd pick 2011?/9 mill TE /Dallas 2nd round pick 2013[/COLOR]

    (all keepers except maybe Ajinca Since the Bargs draft FAIL has been stellar with Davis Derozen)
    It's not this post in particular that I am singling out but reading this and the year-end grades from the Post and Doug Smith you would think this team is bound for glory.

    I keep reading that there are 7 or 8 guys on this team that should come back. Really? Can we all agree that you only need 8 guys to win the NBA (plus maybe a 9th to play spot minutes)? I can't remember a good team where the 10th man was integral to success. Yet, there seems to be this idea slowly forming that the Raps already have 6 or 7 of these vital spots filled. It's nonsense. If it were true the team wouldn't be 22-59.

    The only guy on the team this year who clearly exceeded expectations was Ed Davis. Derozan has improved a lot but is everyone really ready to hand over the starting 2-spot to him indefinitely? Everyone else is at best a 7th or 8th man and you only need two of those, not 6.

    I guess my point is that this idea that somehow the roster is teeming with talent and "keepers" needs to be put to rest, not just because it is flat out wrong, but because it is letting this organization off the hook, yet again, for continually serving us dog food and telling us it is filet mignon. The team is awful. The roster is awful. Most of these guys won't be here if this team ever gets good. Stop with the nonsense.

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    • #17
      Yo Charlz, you may wanna check out this group before posting

      Comment


      • #18
        heinz57 wrote: View Post
        sabonis, rasho, marc gasol
        rasho a 7 footer who averaged 5 RPG? sorry that is not my idea rugged. Marc is tougher but 6'8 certainly not worth a 3rd pick.

        Sabo is a maybe I liked him 7'3 guys getting u 7 RPG is disappointing when Reggie can get you double that in the same time heck so can Dorsey... also Sabo played on great teams and was ringless - never could get it done in money games v shaq or admiral.
        "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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        • #19
          Multipaul wrote: View Post
          Yo Charlz, you may wanna check out this group before posting
          Now I feel like Harper getting his character grossly distorted by Jack Layton and Michael Ignatieff.
          I dont hate anyone or any group. Read my post closely.

          History shows top Foreign players come to NBA and look like ordinary one way players and you are hard pressed to find a championship teams that has foreign players as the go to guy. Gasol did not get ringed until they put him with kobe bynum odom fisher ariza/artest.

          For the record I think Manu is one of the grittiest guys to ever play the game. He (along with TD) is why Spurs won and he is why Argentina toppled US IMO - but he is a rare rare rare find.
          "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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          • #20
            charlz wrote: View Post
            Yes he bullies his way around the pain in Europe NOT NCAA big difference. at best I think he is Zaza.

            Name me 3 hard nosed non-perimeter Euro bigs in the history of the NBA? Nenad Krstic (groan), Gortat (meh) Zaza Pechulia? vladi Divak? Rik Smits? Andris Biedrins? Even Gasol is likely the best of the bunch is moved to PF every chance they get to have Bynum play the Centers - he has been criticized in numerous circle for not being tough around the rim.

            The other intangible is for team unity the young guns don't roll with Euro dudes. when they show Ed Davis walking to his Rover he is with Reggie Demar Sonny - when they show Amir Johnson chilling in Vegas during summer league do you think Bargs is "HIS BOY" and rolling with him NO! its Jarret Jack.

            Bargs is back in Italy enjoying his celeb shot ads with models and not working on becoming a better defender.

            If you want your core pieces to stay your chances increase if they can identify with each other and share culture. Ed Davis watches how Bargs helps on D and is astounded how he doesn't care. Anyone who goes to games (and I go to nuff) can see the dynamic between the players from the tunnel to timeouts to warm ups to in game play.
            It seems the more you post about the subject of Euro vs. American (what u really mean is Afr. Am. I think) the more is displayed of your disregard for the principle that generalization of ethnicity is not a nice trait. In fact it is not a wise one.

            Regarding whether some of the Raps like to "roll" with one or the other is again wrapped into this world view which seems quite rigid. I have experienced, here in Toronto, that students going to public school in Forest Hill tend to gravitate towards groupings of similar class/financial backgrounds (Forest Hill being a diverse community with great wealth, middle and poor classes of pop.). This is natural. While I agree bonding is a good thing amongst members of pro BB team, to use this as an example of not drafting a player who might be considered the best at that draft position because he is a euro, is well, just xxxxxx. Are you aware that Jose had Bosh over to his home in Spain on a vacation one year and has been a very willing tour guide during their Euro trips? Do you call that adequate "rolling" with his mates? It might also say something about American players not being open enough to want to experience the company of their Euro teammates. It does take two to tango, right? We dont know that do we? I just go by what I read and have experienced ...that Americans are pretty ambivalent about wanting/caring to learn about other cultures except if they go to war or invade them (ok, that was uncalled for!). If Kanter did turn out to be like a Pau Gasol eg. do you think ED would care he doesnt like JayZ or Roscoe's Chicken?

            Draft the best player available.
            Last edited by Bendit; Wed Apr 13, 2011, 12:33 PM.

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            • #21
              charlz wrote: View Post
              Now I feel like Harper getting his character grossly distorted by Jack Layton and Michael Ignatieff.
              I dont hate anyone or any group. Read my post closely.

              History shows top Foreign players come to NBA and look like ordinary one way players and you are hard pressed to find a championship teams that has foreign players as the go to guy. Gasol did not get ringed until they put him with kobe bynum odom fisher ariza/artest.

              For the record I think Manu is one of the grittiest guys to ever play the game. He (along with TD) is why Spurs won and he is why Argentina toppled US IMO - but he is a rare rare rare find.
              Argentina is my fav European country.

              I like your team UNITY argument too. That made me laugh. I mean, who would wanna hang out with a foreigner?
              Eh follow my TWITTER!

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              • #22
                Employee wrote: View Post
                Argentina is my fav European country.

                I like your team UNITY argument too. That made me laugh. I mean, who would wanna hang out with a foreigner?
                LMFAO, Charlz is like the Idi Amin of racial harmony

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                • #23
                  charlz wrote: View Post
                  Yes he bullies his way around the pain in Europe NOT NCAA big difference. at best I think he is Zaza.

                  Name me 3 hard nosed non-perimeter Euro bigs in the history of the NBA? Nenad Krstic (groan), Gortat (meh) Zaza Pechulia? vladi Divak? Rik Smits? Andris Biedrins? Even Gasol is likely the best of the bunch is moved to PF every chance they get to have Bynum play the Centers - he has been criticized in numerous circle for not being tough around the rim.

                  The other intangible is for team unity the young guns don't roll with Euro dudes. when they show Ed Davis walking to his Rover he is with Reggie Demar Sonny - when they show Amir Johnson chilling in Vegas during summer league do you think Bargs is "HIS BOY" and rolling with him NO! its Jarret Jack.

                  Bargs is back in Italy enjoying his celeb shot ads with models and not working on becoming a better defender.

                  If you want your core pieces to stay your chances increase if they can identify with each other and share culture. Ed Davis watches how Bargs helps on D and is astounded how he doesn't care. Anyone who goes to games (and I go to nuff) can see the dynamic between the players from the tunnel to timeouts to warm ups to in game play.
                  3 hard-nosed non-perimeter players? Easy. Marc Gasol, Ronny Turiaf and Marcin Gortat. And that's just off the top of my head. That's not to mention the group of young European big men that have come in recently, like Mosgov and Pekovic. Then there are the big men who have come and gone, like Dino Radja, Sabonis and Potapenko, all guys who would have gladly shoved an elbow down your throat if it helped them grab a rebound. So basically, your premise is not only flawed, it's offensively flawed.

                  And if you start making personnel decisions based on who hangs out with who during the summer, then you're not going to go very far. If your players aren't mature enough to get along with different types of people on the court, then you've got more things to worry about. You think RC Buford and Gregg Popovic wondered whether Duncan would hang out with Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili, when they acquired them?

                  Are you trying to create a clubhouse or a winning basketball team?
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                  Follow me on Twitter.

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                  • #24
                    say what you want to try and some how hamper my bullet proff points by assassinating my character - it wreaks of desperation.

                    foreign BIG Men raptors have Track record:
                    Bargs(ALREADY PLAYED LAST GAME AS RAP)
                    Hoffa 8th over all (FAIL)
                    Žan Tabak (FAIL)
                    Remon Van de Hare
                    Nathan Jawai
                    Aleksandar Radojevic (epic FAIL)
                    Uros Slokar

                    how about these other can't miss foreign big men:
                    Nikoloz Tskitishvili (EPIC MASSIVE HUGE FAIL)
                    frederic weis (YOUR MOM)
                    pavel podkolzin

                    the list goes on forever and the players that were passed on to take those on the list above is even more shocking.
                    So you can try to paint me as Don Cherry or whatever but it does not mitigate the point that the hit ratio for foreign bigs is not great.
                    "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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                    • #25
                      Employee wrote: View Post
                      That made me laugh. I mean, who would wanna hang out with a foreigner?
                      it hard to hang out with a guy who is 8 time zones away - and even when he is in town Bargs has this holier than thou arrogance about him. I never see him downtown with the other players at their usual haunts.

                      Anyone who spends time in Yorkville knows when u see bargs down there he's not with team mates.
                      Last edited by charlz; Wed Apr 13, 2011, 06:43 PM.
                      "I may be wrong ... but I doubt it"

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                      • #26
                        The danger of throwing out a blanket statement like "name me one Euro that..." is that the sample size is so much smaller compared to if we asked you to "name me one American that..".

                        We can break it down this way. Since the 1980s, when Euros started getting drafted, there have been approx 2800 players drafted in total. About 2600 Americans, 200 International. Of that, maybe 130 Euro's because of other countries like Canada, Caribbean, Africa, Asia.

                        You're basically picking on Europeans when there have been that many comparatively speaking. Of course there's no guarantee that every player drafted will turn out great.

                        So you can see where such a blanket statement becomes kinda silly.

                        Here's a few decent Europeans:
                        Pau Gasol (Spain)
                        Vlade Divac (Serbia)
                        Arvydas Sabonis (Lithuania)
                        Andris Biedrins (Latvia)
                        Dirk Nowitzki (Germany)
                        Mehmet Okur (Turkey)

                        Here's just 6 Euro's that didn't play in a US college. (FYI Kanter would have played for Kentucky.. and big schools like that don't just wildly recruit random people).

                        Okay, now it's your turn. If you can name 120 American big men (that's 2600 americans to 130 euro's, so a 20:1 ratio) who at some point in their career averaged 9 or more rebounds (everyone above did it at least twice), then you have only proven that the number of good Euro big men EQUAL the number of good American bigs.

                        (To prove that good Euro big men are more rare than good American big men, you'll probably have to name about 500-600 good American big men.)
                        your pal,
                        ebrian

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                        • #27
                          charlz wrote: View Post
                          it hard to hang out with a guy who is 8 time zones away - and even when he is in town Bargs has this holier than thou arrogance about him. I never see him downtown with the other players at their usual haunts. He has a string of GF's through out the city and he goes solo with them - I know that for the fact because my x is on his "visit list" and anyone who spends time in yorkville know when u see bargs down there he's not with team mates.
                          HAHAHAHAH, this guy is hating on Bargs cuz Bargs is hittin his X. Now we know where all this anti euro BS stems from! aHahahahah!!!!!

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                          • #28
                            charlz wrote: View Post
                            say what you want to try and some how hamper my bullet proff points by assassinating my character - it wreaks of desperation.

                            foreign BIG Men raptors have Track record:
                            Bargs(ALREADY PLAYED LAST GAME AS RAP)
                            Hoffa 8th over all (FAIL)
                            Žan Tabak (FAIL)
                            Remon Van de Hare
                            Nathan Jawai
                            Aleksandar Radojevic (epic FAIL)
                            Uros Slokar
                            All I know is that Bargnani was one of the best players to come out of the 2006 class, he just doesn't fit with what Toronto needs. Only two of those guys were drafted by Colangelo here in Raptorland. On top of that other successful international big men brought in by Colangelo would include Jorge Garbajosa and Rasho Nesterovic. Nathan Jawai was a second round project. Just like Solomon Alabi is. And FYI, if you want to talk about big men busts I can name you American busts five to one on your best shot at listing the international busts. Shall we dance?

                            charlz wrote: View Post
                            show about these other can't miss foreign big men:
                            Nikoloz Tskitishvili (EPIC MASSIVE HUGE FAIL)
                            frederic weis (YOUR MOM)
                            pavel podkolzin

                            the list goes on forever and the players that were passed on to take those on the list above is even more shocking.
                            So you can try to paint me as Don Cherry or whatever but it does not mitigate the point that the hit ratio for foreign bigs is not great.
                            If you were reading somewhere that they were "can't miss" I would recommend to flip the page from the funnies section to the sports section.

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                            • #29
                              charlz wrote: View Post
                              it hard to hang out with a guy who is 8 time zones away - and even when he is in town Bargs has this holier than thou arrogance about him. I never see him downtown with the other players at their usual haunts. He has a string of GF's through out the city and he goes solo with them - I know that for the fact because my x is on his "visit list" and anyone who spends time in yorkville know when u see bargs down there he's not with team mates.
                              WOW. This is me gaining a ton of respect for Bargnani.
                              Eh follow my TWITTER!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                charlz wrote: View Post
                                it hard to hang out with a guy who is 8 time zones away - and even when he is in town Bargs has this holier than thou arrogance about him. I never see him downtown with the other players at their usual haunts. He has a string of GF's through out the city and he goes solo with them - I know that for the fact because my x is on his "visit list" and anyone who spends time in yorkville know when u see bargs down there he's not with team mates.
                                Im still laughing.
                                Eh follow my TWITTER!

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