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  • #31
    The 2006-2007 team comes up often as a shining example of what could happen. The reason that bombed was the short term moves that Bryan made. He tried to create a team around Bosh and paid for it.

    There is no one guy that we need to build around with this current roster. There is no 'superstar'. Lowry might be the closest but I don't think anyone would consider Lowry a top 20 player in the league despite the success he's had this season. And Lowry is not a 'max' guy - not even close.

    They have the flexibility to get a max guy and the thing I like about MU over BC is that MU is trying to build a team.. a group of cohesive parts. BC drafted Bargnani when they had Bosh. He got Jermaine O'Neal when Bargnani wasn't enough. He signed Hedo when they already had a dominant ball handler in Jose. He traded for Gay when he already had a guy who was similar in DeMar (who he just resigned to a 4 year contract).

    The only similarity might be a first round bounce.. but what were the expectations going into this season? I never considered a 3rd seed. I was thinking border line 8th seed and hoping for a tank since being in 7-11 sucks. Now that they are destined for the playoffs with a seed at least somewhere between 3-5 all we can hope for is some success and development (hoping the playoff atmosphere helps nurture some of the youth on the team).

    I personally don't think the Raptors will get passed the first round, but I never considered them a playoff team after the Gay trade went down so my expectations are jaded. And if they don't I still think the Raptors are far better off than they were at the start of the 2007-2008 season.

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    • #32
      current playoff teams

      east: indy, mia, chi, tor, bk, was, cha, atl
      west: sas, okc, lac, hou, por, gsw, mem, dal

      of all those teams, we are the only team w/o a player making at least $10 mil.
      "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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      • #33
        Mayday Mayday Raps falling fast. 2-4 in their last 6 and heading into a potential 5th seed nosedive!!

        3rd Seed: I think at this point we'll have to go 9-3 to secure it, the Bulls have been playing at a high level and I can easily see them going 8-3 over their last 11, I mean their toughest challenge is arguably Portland so that say's it all. I really don't see them going 7-4 over their last 11 games with the opposing level of competition but we can always hope.

        4th Seed: IMO 8-4 should secure the 4th seed unless the Nets keep streaking hard but it's hard to see them going 11-2 over their final 13. 7-5 from here on out could be a potential kiss of death (Losses to Mia, Ind, Hou, Nyk[H2H], and a stinker to either Bos[H2H], Orl, or Det) but again even 10-3 is a difficult finish to imagine from the Nets in their last 13. I'm guessing they go 9-4 which should seal the deal for us unless we really fumble and go 6-6.

        Bottom line is the Raps need to get their act together, a realistic expectation given their poor play lately is securing the 4th seed by going 7-5. It'd be nice if they could get themselves together but right now it looks like a limp into the playoffs and a first round exit to Brooklyn.

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        • #34
          MACK11 wrote: View Post
          current playoff teams

          east: indy, mia, chi, tor, bk, was, cha, atl
          west: sas, okc, lac, hou, por, gsw, mem, dal

          of all those teams, we are the only team w/o a player making at least $10 mil.
          thats actually interesting. I havent convinced myself of how relevant (we certainly have some stinkers making $6-8 mm in the form of LF, JS, CH) .... but it is an interesting point none the less for cap flexibility going forward.

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          • #35
            MACK11 wrote: View Post
            current playoff teams

            east: indy, mia, chi, tor, bk, was, cha, atl
            west: sas, okc, lac, hou, por, gsw, mem, dal

            of all those teams, we are the only team w/o a player making at least $10 mil.
            Is that a good thing though? The best contracts in the leagues are usually max's and mins. Mid level contracts are worst value per dollar in the league. See: Fields, Novak, Hayes.

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            • #36
              themasao wrote: View Post
              Is that a good thing though? The best contracts in the leagues are usually max's and mins. Mid level contracts are worst value per dollar in the league. See: Fields, Novak, Hayes.
              That's a terrible point. So Rudy Gays 20million dollar contract next year is better than DeMar derozans 9.5? Kobe Bryant's 30million is better than what? He's a first ballot hall of famer but at this point dudes not worth 30 effin million. Novak is at what 3.5million? It's not ideal but it's not crippling. Sure fields is a disaster of a contract. Hayes contract is tough to swallow until u look at the discounts you get on Ppat and gravy (for now) Hayes is way too much but he's serviceable and brings good leadership so on a young team like this you can afford it for another year or 2.

              In closing, I disagree with your premise.
              Sunny ways my friends, sunny ways
              Because its 2015

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              • #37
                white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                Not only do we shoot a lot of jumpers, but the ball doesn't swing that much either. Our ball movement is not actually that spectacular. It's pretty average. And the ball rarely goes through more than 2-3 players on any set. It's still better than in the Gay times, or better than most of Casey's first 2 years here, but it's a long way away from better teams like SAS, POR, GSW, or even the offensively challenged (talent-wise) Bulls. The 2nd or 3rd passes are rarely made.
                GSW's offense is pretty damn average and broken at times, considering the talent they have.
                Their defense is formidable though.

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                • #38
                  planetmars wrote: View Post
                  The 2006-2007 team comes up often as a shining example of what could happen. The reason that bombed was the short term moves that Bryan made. He tried to create a team around Bosh and paid for it.

                  There is no one guy that we need to build around with this current roster. There is no 'superstar'. Lowry might be the closest but I don't think anyone would consider Lowry a top 20 player in the league despite the success he's had this season. And Lowry is not a 'max' guy - not even close.

                  They have the flexibility to get a max guy and the thing I like about MU over BC is that MU is trying to build a team.. a group of cohesive parts. BC drafted Bargnani when they had Bosh. He got Jermaine O'Neal when Bargnani wasn't enough. He signed Hedo when they already had a dominant ball handler in Jose. He traded for Gay when he already had a guy who was similar in DeMar (who he just resigned to a 4 year contract).

                  The only similarity might be a first round bounce.. but what were the expectations going into this season? I never considered a 3rd seed. I was thinking border line 8th seed and hoping for a tank since being in 7-11 sucks. Now that they are destined for the playoffs with a seed at least somewhere between 3-5 all we can hope for is some success and development (hoping the playoff atmosphere helps nurture some of the youth on the team).

                  I personally don't think the Raptors will get passed the first round, but I never considered them a playoff team after the Gay trade went down so my expectations are jaded. And if they don't I still think the Raptors are far better off than they were at the start of the 2007-2008 season.
                  He is a top 20 player right now. Top 20, that's basically an all star. Easily.
                  He won't get a max because of his history though.

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                  • #39
                    BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
                    He is a top 20 player right now. Top 20, that's basically an all star. Easily.
                    He won't get a max because of his history though.
                    I was referring more to his perception by fans, media and the league.. and it's hard to just consider this year when considering contracts especially when so many big named talented players were injured like Horford, Rose, Kobe, Rondo, Westbrook, Lopez this year.

                    When ESPN does it's top 500 list next year.. let's see if Lowry makes the top 20. I know that voting system is dumb, but it's a good barometer of what the general population think about NBA players.

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                    • #40
                      planetmars wrote: View Post
                      I was referring more to his perception by fans, media and the league.. and it's hard to just consider this year when considering contracts especially when so many big named talented players were injured like Horford, Rose, Kobe, Rondo, Westbrook, Lopez this year.

                      When ESPN does it's top 500 list next year.. let's see if Lowry makes the top 20. I know that voting system is dumb, but it's a good barometer of what the general population think about NBA players.
                      Well, you said "anyone", so I'm one.

                      But if you mean general public opinion, then you are probably right. Media kept voting Kobe all-defense for like 3 years after he stopped being solid on defense, it takes a while for the general media to catch up.

                      As far as injuries, every year has multiple injured big name players. Some will get healthy, others will get injured, some will break out, others will fade away. In the end, it's up to Lowry himself to stay healthy and keep playing well. Lowry is a legit top 20 player right now. It's up to him to keep that form or lose it.

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                      • #41
                        planetmars wrote: View Post
                        I was referring more to his perception by fans, media and the league.. and it's hard to just consider this year when considering contracts especially when so many big named talented players were injured like Horford, Rose, Kobe, Rondo, Westbrook, Lopez this year.

                        When ESPN does it's top 500 list next year.. let's see if Lowry makes the top 20. I know that voting system is dumb, but it's a good barometer of what the general population think about NBA players.
                        But it's not fans, media or the league that makes contract offers. We'll soon find out what (at least some) front offices think of Lowry this offseason.
                        If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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                        • #42
                          3inthekeon wrote: View Post
                          But it's not fans, media or the league that makes contract offers. We'll soon find out what (at least some) front offices think of Lowry this offseason.
                          The front offices do of course but I think they can easily get influenced by the fans/media and the league. I don't think Lowry gets the recognition he deserves but basically I'm really just hoping that his under dog status in the league translates to a good contract offer as well.

                          If Lowry was over rated I'd be concerned (*cough* Gay *cough*), but he's not.. and I think that actually will help here.

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                          • #43
                            BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
                            He is a top 20 player right now. Top 20, that's basically an all star. Easily.
                            He won't get a max because of his history though.
                            For what it's worth, boxscoregeeks.com has Kyle sitting as the 17th best player in the league today. He could slip, but top 25 looks pretty safe.

                            He is statistically tied with Dragic as the second best PG behind Chris Paul

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                            • #44
                              agree

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