February 14th: Knicks at Raptors

[Fanchie]

The thing is, Lin is the kind of player that fits D'Antoni's system, and therefore whose stats are greatly enhanced. Just like Diaw when he was in Phoenix and won MIP (different position, but same kind of "if you fit in my system, your stats are gonna look damn good" result).

I'm not sure Lin would have been that productive anywhere else, or should i say under any other coach. And especially not under a defensive mastermind like Casey.

[Nilanka]

The thing is, Lin is the kind of player that fits D'Antoni's system, and therefore whose stats are greatly enhanced. Just like Diaw when he was in Phoenix and won MIP (different position, but same kind of "if you fit in my system, your stats are gonna look damn good" result).

I'm not sure Lin would have been that productive anywhere else, or should i say under any other coach. And especially not under a defensive mastermind like Casey.

I agree to an extent, but even in a D'Antoni system, a player isn't going to put up good numbers unless he's actually skilled enough to do so. Seeing Iman Shumpert's numbers tells us that D'Antoni's system doesn't make every player good. Instead, it makes good players better.

If we hypothetically replaced Lin with Bayless, I doubt Bayless would have the same level of success in New York.

[jimmie]

I agree to an extent, but even in a D'Antoni system, a player isn't going to put up good numbers unless he's actually skilled enough to do so. Seeing Iman Shumpert's numbers tells us that D'Antoni's system doesn't make every player good. Instead, it makes good players better.

If we hypothetically replaced Lin with Bayless, I doubt Bayless would have the same level of success in New York.

Iman Shumpert actually put up excellent numbers early on in D'Antoni's system, but he's a rookie and he came back to earth pretty quickly. Jury is still out on Lin. He may also regress to the expected mean for an undrafted rookie. He certainly looks awesome right now, though.

[Joey]

...makes good players better.
If we hypothetically replaced Lin with Bayless, I doubt Bayless would have the same level of success in New York.

Anyone playing in the NBA is 'Good' at Basketball.

I actually jokingly made the point about Bayless playing for D'Antoni in another thread.
I really do think that if you put any PG in a D'Antoni system, he will over-perform.
And this has actually been evidenced a few times by Duhon and Felton.

[Nilanka]

Iman Shumpert actually put up excellent numbers early on in D'Antoni's system, but he's a rookie and he came back to earth pretty quickly. Jury is still out on Lin. He may also regress to the expected mean for an undrafted rookie. He certainly looks awesome right now, though.

Shumpert put up 'decent' numbers earlier this season, but nothing remotely close to what we've seen from Lin over the past week.

[Nilanka]

Anyone playing in the NBA is 'Good' at Basketball.

I actually jokingly made the point about Bayless playing for D'Antoni in another thread.
I really do think that if you put any PG in a D'Antoni system, he will over-perform.
And this has actually been evidenced a few times by Duhon and Felton.

Over-perform to a certain degree, yes. But my point is that we haven't seen any other D'Antoni PG put up 27 pts and 8 assists over a five game win-streak since Nash. Lin deserves the praise he's received so far.

[Joey]

Over-perform to a certain degree, yes. But my point is that we haven't seen any other D'Antoni PG put up 27 pts and 8 assists over a five game win-streak since Nash. Lin deserves the praise he's received so far.

Not saying he doesn't.
But if I'm not mistaken, Bayless finished out last year averaging 22 and 7 or something very close to that.
Not to mention he did so over a longer span of games.

Lin is good. Not saying he isn't. But he's going to have to do it for alot more than 5 games, and do it not as the ONLY guy shooting the rock, to convince me he's a perennial Starter.

[Nilanka]

Not saying he doesn't.
But if I'm not mistaken, Bayless finished out last year averaging 22 and 7 or something very close to that.
Not to mention he did so over a longer span of games.

Lin is good. Not saying he isn't. But he's going to have to do it for alot more than 5 games, and do it not as the ONLY guy shooting the rock, to convince me he's a perennial Starter.

Keeping in mind that it's only been 5 games for Lin, the difference between his numbers, and the numbers Bayless put up last season is the impact they have on the team. Lin is winning (basically single-handedly), while Bayless was not.

[Joey]

Keeping in mind that it's only been 5 games for Lin, the difference between his numbers, and the numbers Bayless put up last season is the impact they have on the team. Lin is winning (basically single-handedly), while Bayless was not.

Fair point. But look at the teams they've played.
Besides the Lakers (who we almost beat) not one of those teams is making the Playoffs.

The other thing that needs to be mentioned here is that he is also averaging nearly 5 turnovers per game in that same 5 game span. That would be good enough to lead the league by a WIDE margin.

Again, not trying to take away from what Lin has done ... just trying to be realistic in my expectations for what he can bring over a full season. He's been with the Knicks for a WHILE, (having played 11 games for the Knicks before being inserted into the Starting lineup) and there's a reason he was VERY nearly cut the day before he started.

[Nilanka]

Yup, totally agree on the turnovers. They've been Westbrook-esque.

[Puffer]

This whole "It's just D'Antoni's system" argument is the brain dead statement of lazy sports journalists trying to explain why they didn't pay any attention until now.

"Oh yeah, if anybody had asked me, I'd have told them all Lin needs is to play for D'Antoni and he'd be good."

So what have the records of D'Antoni's last Gs not named Steve Nash been? I'm talking all the starter, backups and second stringers from the Suns and every G who has played for NY since he took over? I'm too lazy to look them up, but I bet they haven't been within 10% of Lin's over the last 5 games.

Actually, I did look them up and included the SG's as well.

NY: Chris Duhon, Toney Douglas, Eddie House, Nate Rpobinson, Larry Hughes, Chauncey Billups, Anthony Carter, Raymond Felton, Roger Mason, Andy Rautins, Mike Bibby, Baron Davis, Iman Shumpert.

Suns: Leandro Barbosa, Howard Eisley, Joe Johnsonm, Brevin Knight, Stephen Marbury. Jim Jackson, Steve Nash, Smush Parker, Quintin Richardson, Andre Barrett, Raja Bell, Marcus Banks.

Okay, how many of those, almost all first round picks, have put up five consecutive games like Lin? Let alone do it the first time they started, or even in their first three years in the NBA.

[slaw]

I love the whole Lin story. Yeah, you can talk about the small sample size, quality of opponents, system, lack of options, etc. but, for now, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy a really, really good story about an underdog made good.

Having said that, still really dislike the Knicks. Hopefully, Raps can get a win tonight.

[mcHAPPY]

I love the whole Lin story. Yeah, you can talk about the small sample size, quality of opponents, system, lack of options, etc. but, for now, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy a really, really good story about an underdog made good.

Having said that, still really dislike the Knicks. Hopefully, Raps can get a win tonight.

A big +1.

[mcHAPPY]

Here is how ESPN is billing the game in the ESPN Preview:

Amar'e Stoudemire left the New York Knicks last week after an unknown reserve named Jeremy Lin sparked a seemingly innocuous victory.

It's since turned into "Linsanity."

Stoudemire returns to the lineup Tuesday night for the Knicks, who hope to make it six straight wins when they face the struggling Toronto Raptors at Air Canada Centre.

Stoudemire spent the last week grieving the death of his older brother, Hazell, who was killed in a car crash. The star forward missed four games after scoring 17 points in a 99-92 win over New Jersey on Feb. 4, just the Knicks' third in 14 games.

That victory, however, has spurred a turnaround for New York (13-15) with Lin as the center piece. He emerged from the bench to score 25 points with seven assists against the Nets, a performance that prompted coach Mike D'Antoni to insert him into the lineup as the starting point guard.

Since then, it's been nothing short of hoopla, dubbed "Linsanity."

Lin, the reigning Eastern Conference player of the week, is averaging 26.8 points and 8.0 assists while leading the Knicks to five consecutive wins, their longest since a seven-game run from March 28-April 10. That's a colossal difference from Lin's 3.6 points per game and 1.9 assists in his first nine contests with New York, making him a bona fide fan favorite and national curiosity.

Now, there are growing questions of whether the Knicks' budding star will be able to produce upon the returns of Stoudemire and -- especially -- the injured Carmelo Anthony (groin).

D'Antoni calls the talk "ludicrous," and said Lin has given the Knicks a "spirit" and a "swagger" that they were lacking.

"You go into every game thinking you're going to win, and it changes everybody's mood," said D'Antoni, whose job was rumored to be on the line before Lin's breakout week.

Lin came up big again Saturday, drawing a foul and hitting a free throw with 5 seconds to go to put New York up for good in a 100-98 win at Minnesota. While Lin finished with 20 points and eight assists, he got considerable help from Iman Shumpert's 20 points and 19 from Landry Fields.

"It's been unbelievable," center Tyson Chandler said. "He's really changed the mindset and mentality of this team."

With Stoudemire back and Lin proving he can carry the load, the Knicks are staring at a chance to go back above .500 for the first time since they were 6-5 following a loss at Memphis on Jan. 12. Their next three games are against teams with losing records, hosting Sacramento on Wednesday and New Orleans on Friday after their visit to Toronto (9-20).

Stoudemire is averaging 29.3 points and 12.0 rebounds in his last three games against the Raptors. He missed the most recent matchup on Jan. 2 due to an ankle injury, and Lin didn't get off the bench in a 90-85 home loss.

New York has won its last two games at Toronto.

The Raptors have dropped two of the first three games on their seven-game homestand, falling 94-92 to the Los Angeles Lakers on Sunday.

Jose Calderon will likely find himself matched up against Lin at the point, and he's hoping to build on his own dazzling performance. The guard had a career-high 30 points and six assists while hitting 13 of 18 from the field, including all four 3-pointers, against the Lakers.

He's averaging 13.2 points in 12 home games, but was limited to nine while dishing out 12 assists against the Knicks last month.

DeMar DeRozan had 21 points in that meeting after scoring 36 in a 131-118 loss in New York on April 5.

Too bad Carmelo is out. With him playing you would have to consider the Raptors favourites.

Tough game for the Raptors to have to face Stoudemire. He will be rested and I'm sure dedicating the game to his brother's memory.

I feel confident in saying the game will be Linsane.

[jimmie]

I love the whole Lin story. Yeah, you can talk about the small sample size, quality of opponents, system, lack of options, etc. but, for now, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy a really, really good story about an underdog made good.

Having said that, still really dislike the Knicks. Hopefully, Raps can get a win tonight.

+1 from here as well. That's really all I was saying re: Shumpert putting up great numbers for D'Antoni earlier this year. And you also really cannot understate the fact that neither Carmelo nor Amare have been playing during this Lin uprising. As mentioned, he's been allowed to be the main scoring option, and while he's put up some crazy numbers, he's also turning the ball over a ton.

I think it's a great story. But that's all it is right now -- a great story about a hardworking player who bucked the odds, especially enticing in a season like this where most fans still have a slightly bitter taste in their mouths post-lockout. It's a feel-good story that the league is smart to be pumping the crap out of. But I prefer to see a few more games before pronouncing Lin the next Nash.