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Do u ever watch IND wistfully? Does IND success change Raps prospects for you? (23)

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  • #16
    ceez wrote: View Post
    Hibbert
    Granger
    Collison (this one is even dumber, but remember how a bunch of us were crying out for BC to trade for him when NO let it be known they were willing to deal him?)


    I'm by no means a draft pundit or anything but i remember hoping Granger and Hibbert would be drafted and being enraged when the likes of Joey Graham and Jermaine O'Neal became raptors instead. Especially JO.

    And now here i sit, watching the team of "could have been raptors" enjoy playoff success.

    One day it'll be us, one day! *single tear*
    I was one of those. I still think he can be good but, like so many players, it depends on the situation and system he is in.

    Granger and AI are really sore points for me. I sat through each draft and had fingers crossed for both only to be let down.

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    • #17
      Jesus Christ, yeah AI. i remember screaming at my tv and everything thinking i was getting mauled by something when Hoffa got selected.
      @sweatpantsjer

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      • #18
        ceez wrote: View Post
        Good thing to remember though is how long it took Granger and especially Hibbert develop. We (i'm looking at you, BC) gotta be patient with our young guns. Is this the offseason to go out and get a couple solid vets for a shootout at the OK corral, or should we wait another year, not just for the new draft pick but to let big Val and whoever we draft develop THEN go to war?

        It makes my brain hurts just thinking about it all
        I must admit that the first couple of years of Hibbert I thought he wasn't going to amount to much. His development the last season and half or so has really sped up... on both sides of the ball. Thats what I am hoping ED is going thru. But then again we have Jim Kelly as our head of scouting! (sorry, some Raptor fan fatalism there).

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        • #19
          Off topic a bit...does anyone know what that very visible disagreement was between Wade (who is acting more of a douche each day) and Spoelstra?

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          • #20
            I still think Ed is going to be solid. Never claimed he'd be a star but i think a great bench player borderline starter is what he'll be. We'll see what an actual offseason/training camp/same system will do for him. He showed some real game at the end of the season when he was getting burn.

            As for Demar my thing with him is how he seems to think he's exponentially better than he actually is. His "all i need to work on is defense" comments REALLY irked me. There's half a dozen things on offense you still need to work on, butthead. Sigh.

            Bayless is functionally retarded so the best we can hope for is he lives to about 30
            @sweatpantsjer

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            • #21
              The player I fret about most is Paul George who was picked a couple before ED. That was the type of wing we all hope we could draft...and I do believe BC had his eyes on him...but...sigh.

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              • #22
                ceez wrote: View Post
                I still think Ed is going to be solid. Never claimed he'd be a star but i think a great bench player borderline starter is what he'll be. We'll see what an actual offseason/training camp/same system will do for him. He showed some real game at the end of the season when he was getting burn.

                As for Demar my thing with him is how he seems to think he's exponentially better than he actually is. His "all i need to work on is defense" comments REALLY irked me. There's half a dozen things on offense you still need to work on, butthead. Sigh.

                Bayless is functionally retarded so the best we can hope for is he lives to about 30
                Agreed. I think next season will be telling for Davis and his future with the team, assuming he isn't traded first!

                Bayless is just shite that should be allowed to walk for nothing.

                DeRozan is decent, but a 3rd year SG who is ineffective/inconsistent penetrating off the dribble, shoots 20-25% from 3pt range, is below average on defense and completely disappears for long stretches of games, is hardly a pillar of the foundation for a playoff team to build upon. I like him, but would be happy to see him traded for any of Gay, Batum or Mayo (S&T for the last two).

                As for Granger and AI, I just pretend they don't exist. Otherwise Hoffa's ghost would haunt my dreams. One of the reasons I don't want Weems to re-sign for next season is because of how much he looks like the Graham's long-lost triplet! *shudders*

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                • #23
                  Bendit wrote: View Post
                  The player I fret about most is Paul George who was picked a couple before ED. That was the type of wing we all hope we could draft...and I do believe BC had his eyes on him...but...sigh.
                  That raises an interesting thought (at least to me):

                  Many, myself included, have talked about the dreaded purgatory of not good enough to draft a superstar but not bad enough to make the playoffs or, if they do, go deep. In a nutshell that was the Pacers for years. Looking at their roster we see (age in parenthesis):

                  Granger (29) picked 17
                  Barbosa (29) picked 28
                  Collison (24) picked 21
                  Hibbert (25) picked 17
                  Hill (26) picked 26
                  George (22) picked 10
                  Hansbrough (26) picked 13
                  West (31) picked 18th (by NOH) and signed as a free agent this year.



                  Does this change anyone's feelings about the current situation with Toronto? I know there was a lot animosity recently about the Raptors dropping to the 8th overall pick versus the top 5 that so many, myself included, thought was a given.

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                  • #24
                    I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but the Pacers coach looks like Adnan Virke (that dude from the Score). Whatever happened to him ?
                    “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

                    -- Charles Barkley

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                    • #25
                      yeah i was bummed originally, but the fact is there's great players everywhere to be had.
                      @sweatpantsjer

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                      • #26
                        torch19 wrote: View Post
                        I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but the Pacers coach looks like Adnan Virke (that dude from the Score). Whatever happened to him ?
                        Oh I dont know if I agree with the comp. AV was also a bit of a shrimp...always looked funny moderating at the side of Leo & Sherman. He went off to ESPN. Havent seen him since.

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                        • #27
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          That raises an interesting thought (at least to me):

                          Many, myself included, have talked about the dreaded purgatory of not good enough to draft a superstar but not bad enough to make the playoffs or, if they do, go deep. In a nutshell that was the Pacers for years. Looking at their roster we see (age in parenthesis):

                          Granger (29) picked 17
                          Barbosa (29) picked 28
                          Collison (24) picked 21
                          Hibbert (25) picked 17
                          Hill (26) picked 26
                          George (22) picked 10
                          Hansbrough (26) picked 13
                          West (31) picked 18th (by NOH) and signed as a free agent this year.



                          Does this change anyone's feelings about the current situation with Toronto? I know there was a lot animosity recently about the Raptors dropping to the 8th overall pick versus the top 5 that so many, myself included, thought was a given.
                          It would if Indy had drafted all those players, but most of them were acquired in trades. You might get lucky once or twice drafting mid-1st round, but I seriously doubt a legitimate contending team can be built by drafting in that mid range year after year. I don't think anybody ever claimed that there are never good players (especially 2nd unit rotation/role players) to be had, it's just unlikely for the same team to consistenty acquire playoff caliber talent without picking high in the lottery (or using free agency and/or trades - which is what Indy has done).

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                          • #28
                            I have to say, Indiana is my favorite team in the playoffs. I'm rooting for them. What they're doing is very impressive and further illustrates the power of TEAM over stars. Last year the Mavs illustrated in the finals. I'm very glad this year the Heat are getting another taste of that, this time almost right out of the gate.

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                            • #29
                              Apollo wrote: View Post
                              I have to say, Indiana is my favorite team in the playoffs. I'm rooting for them. What they're doing is very impressive and further illustrates the power of TEAM over stars. Last year the Mavs illustrated in the finals. I'm very glad this year the Heat are getting another taste of that, this time almost right out of the gate.
                              Good point. The Indy-Miami series is going a long way to show that a well balanced team with talent/contribution from top-to-bottom of the 9/10 man rotation can have success, even without a superstar. Whereas Miami (and LBJ previously in Cleveland) are illustrating that surrounding a superstar or two with average/below-average players might very well have a ceiling to limit the success to the regular season. Even Jordan was surrounded by above average teammates (Pippen) and very effective rotation/role players (Grant/Rodman for rebounding, Paxson/Kerr for 3pt shooting, Kukoc for 6th man sparkplug scoring off the bench).

                              I would be happy to watch the Raptors follow Indy's recipe for success. If they happen to land a star, via the draft, free agency or trade, so be it... just don't lose site of the goal to build a solid, well rounded team full of players who know & embrace their job/role.

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                              • #30
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                That raises an interesting thought (at least to me):

                                Many, myself included, have talked about the dreaded purgatory of not good enough to draft a superstar but not bad enough to make the playoffs or, if they do, go deep. In a nutshell that was the Pacers for years. Looking at their roster we see (age in parenthesis):

                                Granger (29) picked 17
                                Barbosa (29) picked 28
                                Collison (24) picked 21
                                Hibbert (25) picked 17
                                Hill (26) picked 26
                                George (22) picked 10
                                Hansbrough (26) picked 13
                                West (31) picked 18th (by NOH) and signed as a free agent this year.



                                Does this change anyone's feelings about the current situation with Toronto? I know there was a lot animosity recently about the Raptors dropping to the 8th overall pick versus the top 5 that so many, myself included, thought was a given.
                                The angst arises more so I think out of frustration that it was a terrible year endured and to come out 8th when we could have been 4th with a couple of more losses...and in such a good draft. We now have to hope for someone to make a mistake or to make an equivalent type choice as you noted at 8th. I guess it can be done and paradoxically there is less pressure choosing there than at 3-4-5 eg. You expect a starter there than lower. I am hoping for the balls to come thru. George though came out firing day 1 it seems. You just knew he would be a stud. And defensive minded too as well as from a lesser school. I dont see anyone close to him at 8 right now. Pfffttt.

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