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  • I wonder if teams would rank centers that have talent/upside higher than a wing or guard. Would Wiggins be ranked #1 if Howard was in his draft class, or Oden, or Okafor, or anyone else that could turn into a beast?

    Drummond fell to 9th despite his build or his upside. Noels fell to 6th (he has an ACL tear but would that have been a concern a decade ago). I bet the Oden/Durant draft has completely altered the way franchises go into a draft now a days.

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    • Xixak wrote: View Post
      I still don't see how he even had a "drop" in the draft like you said. Oden was pretty much a lock to go #1.
      I didn't say KD dropped.

      Two different ideas in two different paragraphs.

      Comment


      • planetmars wrote: View Post
        I wonder if teams would rank centers that have talent/upside higher than a wing or guard. Would Wiggins be ranked #1 if Howard was in his draft class, or Oden, or Okafor, or anyone else that could turn into a beast?

        Drummond fell to 9th despite his build or his upside. Noels fell to 6th (he has an ACL tear but would that have been a concern a decade ago). I bet the Oden/Durant draft has completely altered the way franchises go into a draft now a days.
        I totally agree. I think teams used to put a premium on equally talented bigs, but I believe the Oden/Durant debacle reinforced the shifting positional importance in the NBA. I was personally shocked that Durant went #2, simply because of the changing trends. I don't think teams would make that same decision today, given that sort of choice.

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        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
          I didn't say KD dropped.

          Two different ideas in two different paragraphs.
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-mor...tions-to-watch


          It would not be the first time to see a player drop because expectations of people are not met despite a terrific performance.

          Durant had 26ppg/11reb on 47/40/81 shooting and people still doubted him and he went #2.
          The way I read that was, "KD dropped to the #2 pick despite excellent numbers because there were doubts about him."

          If you didn't mean it like that then my mistake.

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          • Xixak wrote: View Post
            The way I read that was, "KD dropped to the #2 pick despite excellent numbers because there were doubts about him."

            If you didn't mean it like that then my mistake.
            Yeah that is a reasonable. I didn't do a good job explaining.

            Comment


            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
              http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-am-mor...tions-to-watch


              It would not be the first time to see a player drop because expectations of people are not met despite a terrific performance.

              Durant had 26ppg/11reb on 47/40/81 shooting and people still doubted him and he went #2.
              Xixak wrote: View Post
              I don't think it's so much that people doubted him.

              Probably a combination of the Blazers having a dynamic wing already, and the perception that a dominant center (Oden potentially at the time) > a wing player.
              Xixak wrote: View Post
              I still don't see how he even had a "drop" in the draft like you said. Oden was pretty much a lock to go #1.
              Matt52 wrote: View Post
              I didn't say KD dropped.

              Two different ideas in two different paragraphs.
              WOW, like WOW. Seriously? You're saying the second wasn't a qualifier for the first, but was just some random other thought that you tossed in the air? No wonder Xixak got banned for going over the edge.

              Comment


              • p00ka wrote: View Post
                WOW, like WOW. Seriously? You're saying the second wasn't a qualifier for the first, but was just some random other thought that you tossed in the air? No wonder Xixak got banned for going over the edge.
                You've left out the initial message that started all this, which provides the proper frame of reference, unfortunately.

                The talk in the article was all about the Wiggins hype causing extreme, unfair expectations to be placed on him by media and fans, so that no matter how well he actually performs there's likely going to be at least a small sense of disappointment. Durant was simply used as a comparison, where a guy with otherwise fantastic stats wasn't viewed as a consensus #1 pick, because the hype-induced expectations were not met, causing people to cast a greater emphasis on the negatives (or even create doubt out of thin air).

                Without the media hype machine, Wiggins should be able to go about his business, get picked 1st overall and live happily ever after - just like Durant should have. The hype blew expectations out of control, leading to disappointment, leading to a "drop" from what should have been the consensus #1 overall pick position. It happened to Durant and it could happen to Wiggins, if people don't temper their expectations.
                Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Aug 23, 2013, 04:13 PM.

                Comment


                • p00ka wrote: View Post
                  WOW, like WOW. Seriously? You're saying the second wasn't a qualifier for the first, but was just some random other thought that you tossed in the air? No wonder Xixak got banned for going over the edge.
                  Keep kicking the nest p00ka. Not this time but eventually someone will be sure to bite.

                  Comment


                  • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                    You've left out the initial message that started all this, which provides the proper frame of reference, unfortunately.

                    The talk in the article was all about the Wiggins hype causing extreme, unfair expectations to be placed him by media and fans, so that no matter how well he actually performs there's likely going to be at least a small sense of disappointment. Durant was simply used as a comparison, where a guy with otherwise fantastic stats wasn't viewed as a consensus #1 pick, because the hype-induced expectations were not met, causing people to cast a greater emphasis on the negatives (or even create doubt out of seemingly thin air).

                    Without the media hype machine, Wiggins should be able to go about his business, get picked 1st overall and live happily ever after - just like Durant should have. The hype blew expectations out of control, leading to disappointment, leading to a "drop" from what should have been the consensus #1 overall pick position. It happened to Durant and it could happen to Wiggins, if people don't temper their expectations.
                    I'm not sure this is right. First of all, Oden had more hype coming out of high school, was ranked higher as a prospect (by Rivals: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...ings/rank-1428), and performed worse than Durant did in college. So if anything, that statement would apply to him not KD.

                    Secondly, the things KD were being knocked for weren't really created "out of thin air". He had a very slight frame (still does), and tested as one of the least athletic players in the class at the combine (26" standing vert, 0 bench press, mediocre 3/4 sprint and lane agility). There was some substance to the criticism (much like there is and will be for Wiggins).

                    Comment


                    • Xixak wrote: View Post
                      Secondly, the things KD were being knocked for weren't really created "out of thin air". He had a very slight frame (still does), and tested as one of the least athletic players in the class at the combine (26" standing vert, 0 bench press, mediocre 3/4 sprint and lane agility). There was some substance to the criticism (much like there is and will be for Wiggins).
                      Fair enough but, if not for the hyped-up exectations, those concerns/criticisms should have paled in comparison to the positives and the stats he produced. I think that's all the article was talking about, showing concern over the growing hype for Wiggins, including comparisons to LBJ, etc...

                      I think it's a little like 1st overall picks automatically having unfair expectations placed upon them, simply because of their draft position. Whether we're talking about a draft pick or a player just entering the NCAA, the article is just reminding media/fans to fairly evaluate the player for who/what he is, rather than against some unattainable hype-driven expectations.

                      Comment


                      • CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                        You've left out the initial message that started all this, which provides the proper frame of reference, unfortunately.

                        The talk in the article was all about the Wiggins hype causing extreme, unfair expectations to be placed on him by media and fans, so that no matter how well he actually performs there's likely going to be at least a small sense of disappointment. Durant was simply used as a comparison, where a guy with otherwise fantastic stats wasn't viewed as a consensus #1 pick, because the hype-induced expectations were not met, causing people to cast a greater emphasis on the negatives (or even create doubt out of thin air).

                        Without the media hype machine, Wiggins should be able to go about his business, get picked 1st overall and live happily ever after - just like Durant should have. The hype blew expectations out of control, leading to disappointment, leading to a "drop" from what should have been the consensus #1 overall pick position. It happened to Durant and it could happen to Wiggins, if people don't temper their expectations.
                        So, in other words:

                        Matt52 wrote: View Post

                        It would not be the first time to see a player drop because expectations of people are not met despite a terrific performance.
                        What did I miss? I'm confused.

                        Comment


                        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          Keep kicking the nest p00ka. Not this time but eventually someone will be sure to bite.
                          I'm not sure what you mean (diverting the conversation?), but I wasn't trying to be a jackass, man. It seemed very logical that the second statement was a qualifier/example of the first statement, as Xixak saw as well. If not, what was it's purpose?

                          Comment


                          • I still don't fully understand this notion that Durant "dropped". Oden was consistently ranked as a better prospect.

                            http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...ings/rank-1428 ----> Rivals Oden #1
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Oden ----> Oden was also the prep player of the year

                            Comment


                            • Xixak wrote: View Post
                              I still don't fully understand this notion that Durant "dropped". Oden was consistently ranked as a better prospect.

                              http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...ings/rank-1428 ----> Rivals Oden #1
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Oden ----> Oden was also the prep player of the year
                              For me, the whole notion of a hype/unfair expectations caused drop is evident in Oden still being ranked #1, despite the season Durant had and the fact the league was moving away from traditional play and becoming a wing-dominated league. It's not just a "drop" at the draft (ie: teams let the player drop, relative to pre-draft rankings) but, possibly even more importantly, a drop ahead of the draft by the media/experts. The media/experts release their rankings and analyze each player to death, to the point that fans and possibly even GMs/scouts/owners can get influenced by those expert analyses. However, if the player was hyped up to the point that expectations were beyond achievable, even for an otherwise supreme talent, then that player is destined to disappoint by failing to reach those lofty expectations. Therefore they "drop" from their rightful place, whether it's in the rankings or at the draft. Of course it's all subjective, but I thought Durant was a no-brainer #1 pick. I think that's all this article was trying to do for Wiggins; temper the hype, maintain fair expectations and remain in the position of top prospect.

                              Comment


                              • But I think what Xixak is trying to say is that a player can't 'drop' from #1 if they were never really projected to go #1 in the first place. From what I remember, Oden was pretty well locked in at the #1 spot from the day he started at Ohio.
                                And while I agree with you Calgary, that I was blown away that Durant didn't go #1, as his numbers warranted it, I also wasn't surprised as it was pretty well known fact that Oden would go #1.

                                On a slightly related note, remember when people (myself included) thought Michael Beasley was better than Durant? ... Ugh.

                                Crazy college stats aren't always a sure fire sign of success.

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