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  • oh, one more point:

    You are 100% right that you can't blame one player for a teams struggles. There is alot of blame to go round. I do not see anyway that this team can hold onto Bargs and actually get better. He may look great on some other team but he isn't contributing enough to justify keeping him around here for the next 3-4 years while the rest of the team develops. He is too big a piece to shelve and not good enough to build around so BC & co will be running around plugging holes and trying to hide him when they really would expedite the rebuilding process without such a terribly flawed, incomplete player like AB taking up so much focus.
    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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    • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
      Can we have a third choice ? BC
      this

      Colangelo should've been let go instead of sam mitchell

      Comment


      • minks77 wrote: View Post
        oh, one more point:

        You are 100% right that you can't blame one player for a teams struggles. There is alot of blame to go round. I do not see anyway that this team can hold onto Bargs and actually get better. He may look great on some other team but he isn't contributing enough to justify keeping him around here for the next 3-4 years while the rest of the team develops. He is too big a piece to shelve and not good enough to build around so BC & co will be running around plugging holes and trying to hide him when they really would expedite the rebuilding process without such a terribly flawed, incomplete player like AB taking up so much focus.
        How come so many few people get this? It's not just him but his impact on the team. He plays major minutes and major shots but doesn't have anyone else's defensive responsibilities. AB7 should have his hands on the oar as well. He is after all, a part of the team. Will the Raps unfold once again to have discord within its locker room like last season? How long can this go?

        PS> If Bargs looks good on other teams (as many Barg lovers are saying ironically), then BC MAKE IT HAPPEN before his stock plummets! minks77, thank you for not drinking the Barney Kool-Aid.
        “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

        Comment


        • buddy your obsessed with andrea. When ever an observer obsesses over one player on a five player game he loses his objectivity. And you obviously have. I watch more basketball that isn't the raptors then I do the raptors. ANdrea is a 4 not a 5 so all you retards who say trade him because he isnt a defensive 5 will shut up.


          minks77 wrote: View Post
          Although I agree that in a rebuilding year losing is a "good" thing (with an eye to the draft of course) I disagree vehemently with your comparison of Pau Gasol to Andrea Bragnani. Pau was never known for being a lock down defensive centre but he's light years ahead of Andrea in that regard. Pau is also an all world low post player, an excellent rebounder and a damn good passer. He has a very high BBall IQ and he took shit Memphis teams to the playoffs 4 years straight. Never won a game I know, but factor in the competition level for just a moment. Gasol didn't mature into a stud as you imply, he was an all world stud in Memphis on a team that without him was beyond terrible. People have this tendency to think that he suddenly developed in LA which simply isn't true. Look at his body of work, from Spain to Memphis to LA.

          Now look at Andrea. He's allergic to rebounds and defence. His low post offense is a mess (establishing position for AB seems to be backing his guy down from 15+ feet out), his 3 point shooting is terribly overrated and he doesn't do anything if he isn't scoring. No hustle, no heart, no pride. After 5 years in the L he is what he is. Factor in apparently bad knees (alarm bells should be going off, 7 foot 250 lbers with bad knees? Not good at all) and some truly copperfield-esque disappearances and you are sitting on a bust.

          This isn't about instant gratitude for many of us. It's about seeing a guy who is such a defensive liability in the post that you'll never stand a chance against a real frontline in the playoffs. Heck, forget the playoffs and go back to watch Darko and Marc eat him alive. Go back and watch Bogut destroy him in overtime. Go watch Earl Monroe and JMax and a 90 year old Ben Wallace get whatever they want. You cannot consistently win basketball games in the NBA with so little reactive force in the post.

          He doesn't bring anything to this team other than the occasional Jumper which is the ultimate foolsgold. As long as he is a key player the Raps will continue to be a soft jump shooting team. Good enough to be mediocre some years, usually not bad enough to benefit. He NEEDS to go.

          Comment


          • Frankthetank wrote: View Post
            buddy your obsessed with andrea. When ever an observer obsesses over one player on a five player game he loses his objectivity. And you obviously have. I watch more basketball that isn't the raptors then I do the raptors. ANdrea is a 4 not a 5 so all you retards who say trade him because he isnt a defensive 5 will shut up.
            So what you're saying was we could've won the game last night had Bargs been on Kevin Love all night long (and Ersan Ilyasova the night before, and Randolph too against Memphis). Gotcha!
            “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

            Comment


            • Can we say trade him because his defence sucks for a 4?
              doesnt matter what position he plays, his defence is still terrible.

              Comment


              • What could we even get for Bargnani?

                There is all this talk of trading Dre, but I have yet to see a discussion of what we could actually get in return. At this point I can't really fathom a team who would want him bad enough to offer us anything of value for him. What sensible GM would actually want this guy?

                (But honestly, I would take anything to get him off the team. I can't imagine a worse player to have when developing young talent. He is not only the antithesis of a good center and demands that every other player be largely excluded from the offense, but he is also a horrible role model for young players in that he has zero heart. We should be taking full advantage of this season to develop DeMar, Ed, Amir and Jerryd, but Andrea is literally the best hinderance this league has to offer to said development.)

                Comment


                • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                  That was never suppose to be Bargnani and this is why he is getting paied less than 10 million NOW. Barg was suppose to be the 2nd option for this team but since BC fucked up, he tried to brand him suddenly as a future and the YOUNG ONZ as a big part of future but everyone knows that was just a marketing BS which worked on some of the fans.
                  It's Colangelo's fault that Bargnani is a horrible defensive player and doesn't rebound and can't seem to contribute outside of scoring?

                  NO ONE CARES WHETHER HE IS THE FRANCHISE PLAYER OR NOT!!!! People don't like players that don't give an effort on defense or can't seem to rebound for their size. If Bargnani was the third option, he would still be a horrible defensive player and below average rebounder while contributing nothing but scoring. The difference is that more people notice the faults when he's the main player. There were, however, plenty of people that have noticed the faults for the last 4.5 years, it's just that many figured he would improved on them.
                  Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                  Follow me on Twitter.

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                  • Tim W. wrote: View Post
                    It's Colangelo's fault that Bargnani is a horrible defensive player and doesn't rebound and can't seem to contribute outside of scoring?

                    .
                    LOOOLL, Again, too simple of logic.

                    It is BC's fault that he has not forced AB to stay here over summer to work with coaches.
                    It is BC's fault that he is not allowin Jay to hold AB accountable when he blows his defensive assignment.
                    It is BC's fault that he has players that can not complement each other on the floor.

                    It is BC's fault that he defends the lack of rebound of AB infront of the Reporters.
                    It is BC's fault that glrifies Amir Johnson while the guy clearly did not even learn one post move over the last 5 years.

                    The list goes on and on and ...... but again, you are just too bias, too blind with hate for one player that you can not see it.

                    It is like you are buing a car that has a major engine problems but you are focusing on little paints chips on the car

                    Comment


                    • Such excellent trolling.

                      Comment


                      • Frankthetank wrote: View Post
                        buddy your obsessed with andrea. When ever an observer obsesses over one player on a five player game he loses his objectivity. And you obviously have. I watch more basketball that isn't the raptors then I do the raptors. ANdrea is a 4 not a 5 so all you retards who say trade him because he isnt a defensive 5 will shut up.
                        I don't give a sht whether he is a 4, a 5, a 3 on offense or whatever. The negatives to his game outweigh the benefits especially as this team starts to get better (hopefully) over the next few years. Andrea simply isn't dominant enough in what he does well to make up for what he does poorly.

                        You can say I've lost my objectivity. You're right. When it comes to Andrea I think he's got to go. I don't love his offense and view the rest of his so called game as HIGHLY suspect.

                        As for watching oh-so-many non raps games, what does that proove? Are you the only one with a cable package around here? I've been watching basketball for 20 years. I'm a fan of the game first and foremost and am slightly obsessed with the history of the game as well. I know my ball. So before going around implying how much you know why not go back to your first comment where you compared AB to Pau. Go back into the history of Pau's game to show us all how poor a player he was in Memphis, I mean you must of had league pass and then too, no?

                        BTW, I consider myself obsessed over the Raps. Period, point blank. I know way too much about all of them. Just so happens that Andrea sparks the most vitriol in me. You can dismiss my POV but if you can barely cobble together a coherent sentence in reply then maybe you need to shut up.

                        Oh, and you aren't my buddy nor do I suffer from any forms of mental handicaps. Unless there's one out there that prevents me from seeing AB's greatness.
                        Last edited by minks77; Sun Jan 30, 2011, 04:34 PM.
                        LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

                        Comment


                        • WhatWhat wrote: View Post
                          Such excellent trolling.
                          so insightful. If someone does not agree with you and blames it ALL on AB, then he is a troll.

                          Let me see if I change to a Basketball expert in the eyes od whatwhat

                          Not only all the Raptor Problems are AB's fault and the toxic effect of his presence, but by trading him the world hunger, Air polution and problems with terrorisims will all be solved

                          How is that whatwhat

                          Comment


                          • Frankthetank wrote: View Post
                            buddy your obsessed with andrea. When ever an observer obsesses over one player on a five player game he loses his objectivity. And you obviously have. I watch more basketball that isn't the raptors then I do the raptors. ANdrea is a 4 not a 5 so all you retards who say trade him because he isnt a defensive 5 will shut up.
                            Words of Wisdom. You should post here more often.

                            Comment


                            • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                              LOOOLL, Again, too simple of logic.

                              It is BC's fault that he has not forced AB to stay here over summer to work with coaches.
                              It is BC's fault that he is not allowin Jay to hold AB accountable when he blows his defensive assignment.
                              It is BC's fault that he has players that can not complement each other on the floor.

                              It is BC's fault that he defends the lack of rebound of AB infront of the Reporters.
                              It is BC's fault that glrifies Amir Johnson while the guy clearly did not even learn one post move over the last 5 years.

                              The list goes on and on and ...... but again, you are just too bias, too blind with hate for one player that you can not see it.

                              It is like you are buing a car that has a major engine problems but you are focusing on little paints chips on the car
                              Why does Colangelo need to FORCE Bargnani do anything that will improve his game? Shouldn't Bargnani want to do those things on his own? And Colangelo hired Moses Malone for Bargnani two summers ago, but most summers, Bargnani insists on playing for the National team.

                              Sure, Triano should hold Bargnani more accountable, but to blame Triano for Bargnani for not caring about something that he should is a little ridiculous.

                              The team is pretty bad and the record shows that. Colangelo is getting plenty of blame for that. But what does that have to do with the criticism of Bargnani?

                              I fail to understand what Colangelo defending Bargnani's rebounding means anything except that Colangelo knows how to lie to reporters?

                              Colangelo paid Amir $3 million less than Bargnani, and he has a more positive contribution on the court. Your assertion that Amir hasn't learned a post move in 5 years is not only false (have you actually watched him), it also shows that you care more about offense than anything else. Noah makes more money than Bargnani, but doesn't have much of a post game. Loads of big men have little post game but earn at least as much or more than Amir. Do you know why? Because they contribute a lot more than scoring.

                              And the major engine problem is Bargnani. You need a new engine. You need to trade Bargnani. Then you can focus on everything else.
                              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                              Follow me on Twitter.

                              Comment


                              • Raptor4Ever wrote: View Post
                                How is that whatwhat
                                9.5/10

                                Don't forget AIDS and cancer, moving Bargnani will cure those too.

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