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Raptors are done!.....for the next 5 years!

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  • #31
    It seems like everyone who replies seems to think 5 years is too long before the Raptors begin competing. When I mean the Raptors are done for at least 5 years it will be before they compete for a championship or at least contending. Not necessarily elite level like the Lakers or Boston but next level like the Magic,Mavs,Spurs ect ect. Right now there are about 10 teams in that conversation, how long before the Raptors can get there? More or less than 5 years?

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    • #32
      ibzilla wrote: View Post
      It seems like everyone who replies seems to think 5 years is too long before the Raptors begin competing. When I mean the Raptors are done for at least 5 years it will be before they compete for a championship or at least contending. Not necessarily elite level like the Lakers or Boston but next level like the Magic,Mavs,Spurs ect ect. Right now there are about 10 teams in that conversation, how long before the Raptors can get there? More or less than 5 years?
      i dont think you can really tell. if we land a gem in the draft, or BC is able to convince 2 primed superstars to join the team then who knows, we might contend next year. if we're sticking with the same team plus a defensive C and a shot-making SF, id say 3 years.

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      • #33
        Matt52 wrote: View Post
        I don't agree with many of the points.

        5 years? Maybe. Who knows.

        T-mac did not want to re-sign here.

        BC has 2 GM awards in 9 seasons of being a GM to prove he is a good start at management. He has made some blunders, but his record has more winners, and not easy winners like drafting John Wall or Kevin Durant. The identity and franchise the last two years was built around one Chris Bosh. He is gone. The team is obviously taking on a new identity - younger, athletic, push the ball. It is definitely unconventional building around Bargnani but D'Antoni has been unconventional with a lot of success. Unfortunately, dealing with Kobe and Duncan has been a thorn in his side.

        There is talent but no there is no franchise talent. Bargnani is a good second option, great third option. Davis is raw but promising. Weems is useless. Amir is great off the bench. Bayless is showing some real promise, maybe not greatness but very good nonetheless. People tend to forget about these guys coming out of college after 1 year and then after 3 years pro, they are really college seniors. I am losing faith on anything great from DD - if he can be included to get OJ Mayo, do it! The problem the Raptors have had is since Bargnani they haven't drafted high. The lower end of the lottery is the ultimate kick in the balls - not good enough for playoffs, not bad enough to get some real prospects. There is a lot of complimentary talent on this team - there are no go-to guys and certainly no franchise player (of which there are really only 5-6 in the game with 2 playing on the same team!).

        Free agency is probably not the place to find your franchise player but you can certainly add some pieces. Cap space is a necessity. Look at Portland with Roy and Aldrige, WSH with Arenas, PHI with Brand and AI to name a couple - mediocre teams with no cap space and bad contracts nobody wants to take on.

        I might agree there is five years between playoff apperances for the Raps but I do not agree with 5 more years.

        This thread is a rant over a young team that is struggling to perform consistently and has of late struggled with 2 key injuries.
        Hear here! All those saying Pritchard is available should look at what he built - while drafting nice "stars" he has a middle road player in Aldridge (I do like his game), a perennial med bed Oden, freshly long term signed B.Roy who is breaking down and at a young age playing like in his early 30's but add in complaining and now untradeable. They have half their cap tied up in Aldridge and Roy for the next 5yrs, a pile of money on Miller, and Camby and Oden. ($50M in those 5 players next yr alone and 3 may be in the locker room every game, although very likely Oden is not offered his QO). $50M! Roy no longer wants to play with Miller, Rudy F wants to leave north america all together. The team is a mess and can no longer be held up as a shining star.

        Forget Pritchard. Don't want him.

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        • #34
          Maleko wrote: View Post
          Hear here! All those saying Pritchard is available should look at what he built - while drafting nice "stars" he has a middle road player in Aldridge (I do like his game), a perennial med bed Oden, freshly long term signed B.Roy who is breaking down and at a young age playing like in his early 30's but add in complaining and now untradeable. They have half their cap tied up in Aldridge and Roy for the next 5yrs, a pile of money on Miller, and Camby and Oden. ($50M in those 5 players next yr alone and 3 may be in the locker room every game, although very likely Oden is not offered his QO). $50M! Roy no longer wants to play with Miller, Rudy F wants to leave north america all together. The team is a mess and can no longer be held up as a shining star.

          Forget Pritchard. Don't want him.
          I agree with POR's current position and the fact they are sort of screwed - unable to rebuild because they can't tear it down.

          However, I'm not sure about Pritchard. Oden was the bet 29 out of 30 GM's would have made. I'm not sure his knee history was an issue as were Roy's. Also, Durant was definitely going to be good but nobody thought this good - everyone gave him sh!t about his skinny frame. Aldridge was a great pick up in a trade with Chicago for Thomas. Roy was a good move for Foye as Foye has not amounted for much.

          Where things get interesting is from what I understand, Pritchard was not allowed to do things his way, 100%. I can't remember the guy's name but he was Paul Allen's right hand man who had issues with Pritchard. There was another guy, Penn I believe, who was the salary cap guru for POR - he as on the draft coverage last year. He was fired before Pritchard for what I recall as philosophical differences. One of the big issues, again only from my recollection, was Roy extension. I think Pritchard was for playing a little more hard ball and bringing up the health concerns - Allen and his 'trusted' guy gave the max extension with no questions asked. If I have any of the above wrong, please let me know.

          I think any team would be lucky to have Pritchard as a GM but I'm very happy with BC for the next year or two.

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          • #35
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            I agree with POR's current position and the fact they are sort of screwed - unable to rebuild because they can't tear it down.

            However, I'm not sure about Pritchard. Oden was the bet 29 out of 30 GM's would have made. I'm not sure his knee history was an issue as were Roy's. Also, Durant was definitely going to be good but nobody thought this good - everyone gave him sh!t about his skinny frame. Aldridge was a great pick up in a trade with Chicago for Thomas. Roy was a good move for Foye as Foye has not amounted for much.

            Where things get interesting is from what I understand, Pritchard was not allowed to do things his way, 100%. I can't remember the guy's name but he was Paul Allen's right hand man who had issues with Pritchard. There was another guy, Penn I believe, who was the salary cap guru for POR - he as on the draft coverage last year. He was fired before Pritchard for what I recall as philosophical differences. One of the big issues, again only from my recollection, was Roy extension. I think Pritchard was for playing a little more hard ball and bringing up the health concerns - Allen and his 'trusted' guy gave the max extension with no questions asked. If I have any of the above wrong, please let me know.

            I think any team would be lucky to have Pritchard as a GM but I'm very happy with BC for the next year or two.
            Agreed. I think we tend to think that BC is a hotshot, collar poppin, godfather wannabe, but what some dont realize is his connections are pretty deep within the NBA. His dad runs the US team, he has deep connections with phoenix/kerr, he's tight with masai in denver and he was with phoenix when danny ainge (celtics GM) was coach.

            I mean if he was able to trade araujo and turkoglu, 2 of the most unwanted players in the nba, then to me he's a GOD.

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            • #36
              And don't forget Pritchard was the GM when Portland almost signed Turk for only 3million less.

              I think a lot of how good we're gonna be depends on how players progress, which is very hard to predict.
              Eh follow my TWITTER!

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              • #37
                MangoKid wrote: View Post
                Pritchard won't be going anywhere for cheap. Someone's gonna have to pay through the nose for him.
                Compared to Jerry West, Kevin Pritchard would be a lot cheaper.

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                • #38
                  smushmush wrote: View Post
                  Compared to Jerry West, Kevin Pritchard would be a lot cheaper.
                  I wouldn't trust Jerry West to operate my remote. The guy is like a 103 years old and he wasn't so great near the end of his tenure with the Grizz.
                  Eh follow my TWITTER!

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                  • #39
                    ... and just to pile it on Doc Rivers wasn't considered a "great coach" before the big 3. The entire city of Boston wanted him fired and Pierce had issues with him. If it weren't for his boy, DA, he'd of been canned long before KG was available.

                    I don't love BC but he's done pretty well IMO. You may not like some of the contracts he's handed out but he \'s not afraid of a bad contract. See the example of one Hedo Turkoglu.

                    This is a throw away year for the Raps, they are rebuilding from the ground up with very little to work with. They don't have an expiring Ray Allen or a ready to be resigned Rashard Lewis to trade into the top end of the lotto with. They will build incrementally. I mean DeRozans game has improved a lot. No he can't shoot, yes he disappears but he's finally got a solid role on the team and is getting touches. I think he looks worse than he is because of his lack of an outside shot and the fact that he plays on a team of guys who don't command the oppositions respect. The whole team, except #7, is easily guarded one on one.

                    Ed Davis is exactly what we needed at the spot we drafted him at: High IQ, long, quick, defensive minded (my fav part). Put any of the top 3 wing players in this draft beside him (if there is a draft this year) and we're suddenly a team on the rise. Package some of the young, moderately priced talent with a pick (or an italian!) and you'll be able to poach a decent vet or two. Remember this is a very young team and young teams don't grow old together: they get traded.

                    I'm loving this year because there ain't isht to lose and we aren't tied to a rock like Arenas (or Roy) contract.
                    LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

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                    • #40
                      minks77 wrote: View Post
                      ... and just to pile it on Doc Rivers wasn't considered a "great coach" before the big 3. The entire city of Boston wanted him fired and Pierce had issues with him. If it weren't for his boy, DA, he'd of been canned long before KG was available.
                      The most forgotten truth in recent basketball history. There is no doubt he is a good coach, though. Just another example that winning cures all.

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                      • #41
                        Is there truth to this? Sure. But it's applicable to almost half the teams in the league. Considering the noise post season mostly comes from the same teams every year, that's the power hierarchy of the NBA. There are obvious exceptions to the rule but I don't think that justifies us getting all weepy and doomsday.

                        We are no where near as bad as we were predicted to be this year. We picked Bayless up for a song. We have incredible financial flexibility going forward. We got completely hosed by Jordan, which would have given us a defensive centre and a multidimensional (chubby, couldn't resist) SF. Not Colangelo's fault but man I would have loved to have seen that team hit the floor and see what it could have done.

                        If that ONE trade had gone through I think we would have been a respectable team this year. So who knows what the future holds and what is going to happen. The real key to this is, who cares? Do you want to watch the games? Watch them. Enjoy the games. If you tie up your personal identity in whether a rebuilding team wins and it starts effecting your day to day, then bandwagon on a winning team. It's like we all know we're going to die someday, but if we sit around and think about it then we could miss a lot of wicked and amazing things.

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                        • #42
                          joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
                          Takes one deal. Look at Boston. They were in the tank one year, won it the next. Takes ONE move.
                          True, but that's not realistic and one shouldn't bank on moves like those happening. Those happen once every 10-15 years and it's not going to happen to the Raptors.

                          What is more possible is the Raptors striking it in the draft with a lottery pick ala Vince Carter. If we get top five picks for three straight years, the chances of us selecting a damn good player increase considerably. That is probably as short a cut to contention/respectability than anything. The only other way is if one of the players we have blossoms into something great, but that's not looking likely other than Bargnani, and he's got some consistency issues.

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                          • #43
                            grindhouse wrote: View Post
                            I can't argue much but it taking 5 years but I would much rather see a system built in Toronto the wait for a franchise player, Utah is a perfect example it doesn't matter whether it malone or boozer or Jefferson or milsap the system is the same and it works.
                            I agree to a point, but the Jazz have a crapload more talent. Crap. Load. Deron Williams? Al Jefferson? AK? And a HoF coach. Put our players in that system and you're not winning games.

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                            • #44
                              Matt52 wrote: View Post
                              The most forgotten truth in recent basketball history. There is no doubt he is a good coach, though. Just another example that winning cures all.
                              Perfectly said. Winning makes you great. 15 wins in a season gets you fitted for cement footwear. Doc was lucky he had friends in high places.

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                              • #45
                                This team is essentially an 8th seed this year, why would they be an 8 seed still 5 years from now?

                                -Believe it or not Colangelo is a top 5 general manager in the league.
                                -Yes, this team does have a system, its not the coaches fault that this team is young and inexperienced.
                                -Can this team be a top 3 eastern conference team? Not without 1+ all star's and that's their problem.
                                -"You can’t run from me. I mean, my heart don’t bleed Kool-Aid."
                                -"“I ain’t no diva! I don’t have no blond hair, red hair. I’m Reggie Evans.”

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