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  • #76
    Shrub wrote: View Post
    Right - you know the what then, just not the when
    Anyway, let's leave the semantics alone for the sake of everybody else who wanders in here.

    Anytime you go ahead and say something like:
    "X has no effect on a team's ability to win", your judgement becomes seriously suspect.
    Especially when it's a starter.
    Especially when it's the leading scorer.
    Basketball is a team game - how can he not have a huge effect?

    It's simple.
    You can play the old "sub in a replacement player" game.

    Over this nice little 7-3 stretch, IMO you could sub in a league average player for every player on the roster except Lowry, and the needle doesn't move much. (And I don't mean that could swap out the entire team at one time for replacement players; I mean you could take any single one out, put in a league average player at that same spot, and the team plays essentially the same way).

    Another thing to consider: over the 7-3 stretch, all of Lowry, Val, Amir and Ross' stats have shot up. Demar's stats have essentially stayed the same (apart from FG% and 3pt% which have gone down, and assists, which have gone up).
    "Stop eating your sushi."
    "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
    "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
    - Jack Armstrong

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    • #77
      JimiCliff wrote: View Post
      You can play the old "sub in a replacement player" game.

      Over this nice little 7-3 stretch, IMO you could sub in a league average player for every player on the roster except Lowry, and the needle doesn't move much. (And I don't mean that could swap out the entire team at one time for replacement players; I mean you could take any single one out, put in a league average player at that same spot, and the team plays essentially the same way).

      Another thing to consider: over the 7-3 stretch, all of Lowry, Val, Amir and Ross' stats have shot up. Demar's stats have essentially stayed the same (apart from FG% and 3pt% which have gone down, and assists, which have gone up).
      You must realize it's not that simple.
      You must.

      You sub in any other player and the whole thing changes.
      Chemistry.

      You shouldn't expect DeMar's stats to go up - he is now the # 1 option (which he shouldn't be).
      He's playing a bigger role in the offense tha he should, and he's playing fine (not exceptional, but fine).

      I am still on the fence about DeMar as a player, honestly, but it's very silly to say this 10 game stretch has nothing to do with him. It's very silly, and every player on that team would disagree. I really think you guys look at basketball like it's a video game sometimes.

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      • #78
        Shrub wrote: View Post
        You must realize it's not that simple.
        You must.

        You sub in any other player and the whole thing changes.
        Chemistry.

        You shouldn't expect DeMar's stats to go up - he is now the # 1 option (which he shouldn't be).
        He's playing a bigger role in the offense tha he should, and he's playing fine (not exceptional, but fine).

        I am still on the fence about DeMar as a player, honestly, but it's very silly to say this 10 game stretch has nothing to do with him. It's very silly, and every player on that team would disagree. I really think you guys look at basketball like it's a video game sometimes.
        Jesus Christ of course I realize it isn't that simple. My point was just this: over the last ten games, the only player who I can say has, beyond a shadow of a doubt, been essential to the team's success has been Lowry. He's been playing at an All-NBA level. Replace him with an average point guard and this team's in the shitter. Replace anyone else and I don't think there's a significant change either way.
        "Stop eating your sushi."
        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
        - Jack Armstrong

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        • #79
          Craig wrote: View Post
          21 of a possible 36 is just under 60% no?

          Ridiculous is a wee bit strong.
          If you are goimg to do that...you also need to account for the free throws or the shots taken when he was fouled, which will decrease that percentage

          Rediculous may be a bit of a stretch...but ut is closer to rediculius than it is to average

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          • #80
            So now harden, who is arguably a top 5, and definitely top 10 offensive player in the league, is the barometer for derozan. Not to mention that harden is owed nearly twice as much as demar over the next 4 years. Cool.

            Derozans stats this season are comparable to melo's 08-09 season, which is the year the nuggets went to the wcf. He rebounds less obviously, assists more, is a little less efficient, and plays better defense, but nevertheless similar.

            Not saying demar is on melo's level or that he's an ideal number one in the nba, but he's not average, he's not overpaid. Period.

            Comment


            • #81
              I'm so sick of people saying derozan needs the ball in his hands to score, and that disqualifies him from being a number two option. He doesn't need it in his hands for the whole shot clock for fucks sakes, he needs it long enough to make a quick drive to the rim and attack. Aside from that he can be effective from the corner, post ups and screen and roll (on the move).

              If you look at most championship teams they have more than one player who can have the ball in their hands and attack a defense. How many title teams have you seen with one scorer and 4 off ball players? That's one of the main reasons why Cleveland never won shit with Lebron because he was the only guy who could create offense.

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              • #82
                Shrub wrote: View Post
                Anytime you go ahead and say something like:
                "X has no effect on a team's ability to win", your judgement becomes seriously suspect.
                Especially when it's a starter.
                Especially when it's the leading scorer.
                Basketball is a team game - how can he not have a huge effect?

                It's simple.
                The way I worded the phrase did make it sound like an absolute phrase, however it was not intended as such. Speaking in absolutes is not a good idea, and I generally do not mean it as to makea post a littleless wordy so the meaning can be easily interpreted....hard to have best of both worlds

                I did intend to mean that this win 'streak' has not been an effect of DD...in fact he has regressed without Gay. So in part,he has had little effect above his normal production (where normal is a part .300 team)

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                • #83
                  Nosike wrote: View Post
                  I'm so sick of people saying derozan needs the ball in his hands to score, and that disqualifies him from being a number two option. He doesn't need it in his hands for the whole shot clock for fucks sakes, he needs it long enough to make a quick drive to the rim and attack. Aside from that he can be effective from the corner, post ups and screen and roll (on the move).

                  If you look at most championship teams they have more than one player who can have the ball in their hands and attack a defense. How many title teams have you seen with one scorer and 4 off ball players? That's one of the main reasons why Cleveland never won shit with Lebron because he was the only guy who could create offense.
                  DD can't have the ball in his hands for the whole clock because he can't create for himself (unless it is an iso post up, which he doesn't do anymore anyways)

                  Therefore he needs a play that dedicates the post players to screening his defender to open him up for a catch and chuck/drive, which is the same as centering an offense to just get him a midranged shot, which is both ineffective and inefficient.

                  Your championship point is interesting. Championship teams have at least 2 guys that can create for their teammates...but when the one is creating, the other(s) is able to play off the ball. Since DD is not great (or even good for that matter) at either...do you think he can be a major part in building a conference finals team??

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                  • #84
                    OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                    DD can't have the ball in his hands for the whole clock because he can't create for himself (unless it is an iso post up, which he doesn't do anymore anyways)

                    Therefore he needs a play that dedicates the post players to screening his defender to open him up for a catch and chuck/drive, which is the same as centering an offense to just get him a midranged shot, which is both ineffective and inefficient.

                    Your championship point is interesting. Championship teams have at least 2 guys that can create for their teammates...but when the one is creating, the other(s) is able to play off the ball. Since DD is not great (or even good for that matter) at either...do you think he can be a major part in building a conference finals team??
                    No, let's amnesty him.

                    I've made my points already in this thread. At the end of the day Masai will decide whether demar can be part of the raptors going forwards if they want to win. If he gets traded, it's not like I won't be a fan of this team anymore.

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                    • #85
                      Nosike wrote: View Post
                      No, let's amnesty him.
                      Grow up

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                      • #86
                        OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                        Grow up
                        Already have. I've actually supported my opinion with facts in here. You never do and just spew garbage repeatedly. Like I said before you're the worst poster here and a troll in my book.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Shrub wrote: View Post
                          You must realize it's not that simple.
                          You must.

                          You sub in any other player and the whole thing changes.
                          Chemistry.

                          You shouldn't expect DeMar's stats to go up - he is now the # 1 option (which he shouldn't be).
                          He's playing a bigger role in the offense tha he should, and he's playing fine (not exceptional, but fine).

                          I am still on the fence about DeMar as a player, honestly, but it's very silly to say this 10 game stretch has nothing to do with him. It's very silly, and every player on that team would disagree. I really think you guys look at basketball like it's a video game sometimes.
                          Do video games supply stats too? That kidding (sorta) aside, one of the best posts I've seen on here!

                          JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                          Jesus Christ of course I realize it isn't that simple. My point was just this: over the last ten games, the only player who I can say has, beyond a shadow of a doubt, been essential to the team's success has been Lowry. He's been playing at an All-NBA level. Replace him with an average point guard and this team's in the shitter. Replace anyone else and I don't think there's a significant change either way.
                          I think you already did make that point. The question is what is the "...I don't think..." based on? It's a question because your opinion really doesn't seem to be based on understanding of the game, as in it's way off. Hey, it's your opinion though, so cool. It's just some may see it as "looking at basketball like it's a video game"~Shrub

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                          • #88
                            Nosike wrote: View Post
                            No, let's amnesty him.

                            I've made my points already in this thread. At the end of the day Masai will decide whether demar can be part of the raptors going forwards if they want to win. If he gets traded, it's not like I won't be a fan of this team anymore.
                            Once again, I feel for you, man. But you've been through this DeMar merry-go-round on here before. For months it was all Tank or DeMar. People softened there for a while, shit even Matt52's DD obsession chilled out, but now that DeMar is being doubled by likes of KD,Kawhi, Marion consistently, they're back for more stat spouting talk.

                            We're talking stats, not basketball. We're not talking basketball, man. We're talking stats. You know what I'm saying. Stats. Not Basketball. Stats. DeMar goes out there and gives his all every game. Elite teams put their elite defenders on him, with doubles all the time, but we're talking stats man. He's regressing, look, the stats say so. We're talking stats, man. Not basketball. we're talking stats........................................ and so on............... Get that straight.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              p00ka wrote: View Post
                              Once again, I feel for you, man. But you've been through this DeMar merry-go-round on here before. For months it was all Tank or DeMar. People softened there for a while, shit even Matt52's DD obsession chilled out, but now that DeMar is being doubled by likes of KD,Kawhi, Marion consistently, they're back for more stat spouting talk.

                              We're talking stats, not basketball. We're not talking basketball, man. We're talking stats. You know what I'm saying. Stats. Not Basketball. Stats. DeMar goes out there and gives his all every game. Elite teams put their elite defenders on him, with doubles all the time, but we're talking stats man. He's regressing, look, the stats say so. We're talking stats, man. Not basketball. we're talking stats........................................ and so on............... Get that straight.
                              Well done. Slow claps for you on that last paragraph



                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                              A key that opens many locks is a master key, but a lock that gets open by many keys is just a shitty lock

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                              • #90
                                p00ka wrote: View Post
                                We're talking stats, not basketball. We're not talking basketball, man. We're talking stats. You know what I'm saying. Stats. Not Basketball. Stats. DeMar goes out there and gives his all every game. Elite teams put their elite defenders on him, with doubles all the time, but we're talking stats man. He's regressing, look, the stats say so. We're talking stats, man. Not basketball. we're talking stats........................................ and so on............... Get that straight.

                                hahahaha

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