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Why it (probably) isn't time to trade Bargnani

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  • #16
    Check

    Lark Benson wrote: View Post

    (or at least I pray to every god ever conceived that he will).

    .
    Please note, there is only ONE GOD. Eveything else I'm in agreement with you.


    Thank you
    It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.


    Muhammad Ali

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    • #17
      Risk Mgmt wrote: View Post
      Please note, there is only ONE GOD. Eveything else I'm in agreement with you.


      Thank you


      JOBU!
      i8theball.com it's a website...about, you know....basketball.

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      • #18
        Risk Mgmt wrote: View Post
        Please note, there is only ONE GOD. Eveything else I'm in agreement with you.


        Thank you
        I assume you're referring to his noodliness of course. Pastafarianists unite!

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        • #19
          I agree not to trade him now, but at what point do you start to make calls if you are BC? What if they come back from the upcoming road trip with only 4 wins on the season?
          What this team needs is a steady performer, a veteran. Anybody else think Pau Gasol would be a welcome addition if he was swapped for Bargnani + salary? Seems like a good trade for both sides...By the time Pau's contract is up, Derozan, Ross, ED, Val will have developed alot. Plus JV would have a best-case-scenario mentor. And the raptors get the type of post player that can allow them to turn this thing around right now.

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          • #20
            Risk Mgmt wrote: View Post
            Please note, there is only ONE GOD. Eveything else I'm in agreement with you.


            Thank you
            I think you spelled "NONE" wrong.

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            • #21
              There is only none God? That doesn't even make sense, therefore you have to be wrong.

              I like Slaw's point of view. Don't trade Bargs because Colangelo's dealings all turn to shit and therefore keep him away from all dealings with the Raptors? Haha.. if only it were that easy.. let's muzzle him for the next 10 years.. Championship Assured.
              your pal,
              ebrian

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              • #22
                "The fact is this team has a lot of offensively gifted players and I'm not worried about the offense at all."
                This is not a fact. Have you seen Amir jacking up long bricks recently? Have you seen Calderon dribbles for 10+ seconds? Have you seen any sort of ball movement for more than 10 min at any given night?!

                I support all other points, and this team most definitely needs to get back at concentrating on D. So yeah, your main point is legit.

                As for trading Bargs, the logic tells me to swallow Lark Benson's reasoning... but my eyes can't wait that long. I wanted him gone since the beginning. Saw his first few games and the lack of effort was evident right then. We have waited for too long.

                Free Raps Fans!

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                • #23
                  ebrian wrote: View Post
                  There is only none God? That doesn't even make sense, therefore you have to be wrong.

                  I like Slaw's point of view. Don't trade Bargs because Colangelo's dealings all turn to shit and therefore keep him away from all dealings with the Raptors? Haha.. if only it were that easy.. let's muzzle him for the next 10 years.. Championship Assured.
                  lol, my attempt at atheistic humour failed miserably....

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                  • #24
                    vino wrote: View Post
                    "The fact is this team has a lot of offensively gifted players and I'm not worried about the offense at all."
                    This is not a fact. Have you seen Amir jacking up long bricks recently? Have you seen Calderon dribbles for 10+ seconds? Have you seen any sort of ball movement for more than 10 min at any given night?!
                    Actually it is fact. Don't dwell on guys like Amir Johnson to argue the point. Next you'll tell me how bad Dominic McGuire is. Duh. I was referring to guys like Calderon, Lowry, DeRozan, Kleiza, even Lucas. Each of these guys are capable of going off for 20+ points while having a fairly efficient ball game. More minutes and experience will help guys like Ross and Valanciunas to have similar offensive abilities. Ball movement has more to do with Casey's offensive sets than offensive giftedness. This team needs to focus on defense and the scoring will come.
                    your pal,
                    ebrian

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                    • #25
                      I don't trust Bryan to make the right decision either. I'd rather wait until the end of the season where we hopefully have a different GM making the calls. But assuming Bryan does consider trading Bargnani, then I'd prefer it to be sooner than later.

                      If you are talking about flipping Bargnani for franchise player X, then you would have to assume that there is a franchise player that can be even traded for. Waiting for that to happen is as likely as winning the lottery I'm sure and I understand that point, but keeping Bargnani could impact guys like JV, Lowry and DeMar (assuming they remain as the core) negatively.

                      Bargnani is still being coddled and that relationship between GM/player or coach/player has to make others on the team question what's going on. Trading him now would most likely improve the culture of the team which is probably more important at this point then trying to win the 'lets trade for a superstar sweepstakes'.

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                      • #26
                        The only advantage that I can see of Colangelo being the one who trades Bargnani is that Colangelo loves Bargnani, and when you love something you won't just trade it for Alonzo Mourning, Aaron Williams, Eric Williams and be done with it. A new GM might come in here and just cut Bargnani loose on the first offer he gets.
                        your pal,
                        ebrian

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                        • #27
                          ebrian wrote: View Post
                          The only advantage that I can see of Colangelo being the one who trades Bargnani is that Colangelo loves Bargnani, and when you love something you won't just trade it for Alonzo Mourning, Aaron Williams, Eric Williams and be done with it. A new GM might come in here and just cut Bargnani loose on the first offer he gets.
                          It's scary to think of who Bryan values in the league though. Bryan loves nice guys and not necessarily talented ones. And my guess is that Stefanski ends up being our next GM - don't forget, he's the one that fleeced the Raptors in that Carter trade.

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                          • #28
                            planetmars wrote: View Post
                            keeping Bargnani could impact guys like JV, Lowry and DeMar (assuming they remain as the core) negatively.

                            Bargnani is still being coddled and that relationship between GM/player or coach/player has to make others on the team question what's going on. Trading him now would most likely improve the culture of the team which is probably more important at this point then trying to win the 'lets trade for a superstar sweepstakes'.
                            This is an attitue that I don't really understand. You don't develop a 'winning culture' unless you actually, you know, win games. And you don't win games in the NBA without talent. The team's 'culture' is just a tired sports cliche rehashed by writers to fill their quotas. The only way to improve the 'culture' of the team is to start winning games, and the Raps need more talent on their roster to facilitate that. There are sooo many examples of this.

                            the raps before VC.
                            The clips before griffin.
                            OKC/Seattle before Durant.
                            Minny before Love.
                            Brooklyn/Jersey before Williams.

                            It goes on and on. These teams didn't turn around because of a 'culture change', they turned around because they got some players that began winning them games. I mean the Clips have the worst owner in the game and their coach is considered one of the worst in the league, but as soon as Griffin started doing his thing and Chris Paul was acquired, suddenly the team is attracting free agents who otherwise wouldn't have considered the Clips in the slightest. On the flip side, the Bucks are one of the hardest working teams in the league, Skiles gets them to play solid D every year and I haven't heard anything about their having a 'losing culture' despite years of playoff misses and first round exits. Ditto pistons, they problems relate to their roster and their GM's inability to hand out a reasonable contract, not their 'culture'.

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                            • #29
                              Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                              This is an attitue that I don't really understand. You don't develop a 'winning culture' unless you actually, you know, win games. And you don't win games in the NBA without talent. The team's 'culture' is just a tired sports cliche rehashed by writers to fill their quotas. The only way to improve the 'culture' of the team is to start winning games, and the Raps need more talent on their roster to facilitate that. There are sooo many examples of this.

                              the raps before VC.
                              The clips before griffin.
                              OKC/Seattle before Durant.
                              Minny before Love.
                              Brooklyn/Jersey before Williams.

                              It goes on and on. These teams didn't turn around because of a 'culture change', they turned around because they got some players that began winning them games. I mean the Clips have the worst owner in the game and their coach is considered one of the worst in the league, but as soon as Griffin started doing his thing and Chris Paul was acquired, suddenly the team is attracting free agents who otherwise wouldn't have considered the Clips in the slightest. On the flip side, the Bucks are one of the hardest working teams in the league, Skiles gets them to play solid D every year and I haven't heard anything about their having a 'losing culture' despite years of playoff misses and first round exits. Ditto pistons, they problems relate to their roster and their GM's inability to hand out a reasonable contract, not their 'culture'.
                              I agree, but what I'm saying is that I believe that Bargnani brings out a negative energy to the team, and by eliminating him now we would be a better team. I may be wrong here but if I was a player and I saw the type of treatment a guy like Bargnani got then I would be pissed, and I might start playing poorly since that's what the franchise values.

                              At least that's how it typically works in a regular office environment. When an employee who slacks off gets promoted it really brings morale down for the rest of the employees. Once that employee leaves/quits/gets fired, the morale improves and the team works better.

                              I'm just an outsider though. I have no idea if this is how the players feel, and if they don't then your plan makes sense. However as a fan I hate what Bargnani represents, and want him gone sooner than later.

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                              • #30
                                ebrian wrote: View Post
                                The only advantage that I can see of Colangelo being the one who trades Bargnani is that Colangelo loves Bargnani, and when you love something you won't just trade it for Alonzo Mourning, Aaron Williams, Eric Williams and be done with it. A new GM might come in here and just cut Bargnani loose on the first offer he gets.
                                A new GM would not want to start his mandate by doing a Carter-like deal for Bargs. And again, given that you're going to have to take back significant salary to unload Bargs, I don't want Colangelo tying the team to a big commitment. We don't need another $10 million/year replacement level player. We already have Bargs and Derozan. No need to replace one of them with another guy who is the same.

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