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Could Ed Davis be our Tyson Chandler?

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  • #31
    Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    Or we can just compare everyone to the champs:

    Davis will be like Chandler
    Obviously Bargnani is our Dirk
    Barbosa is our Jet Terry
    Jose is our slow footed veteran PG like Kidd
    Kemba Walker will be our undersized lighting guard like Barea
    JJ is our tall, Marion-like point forward who can handle the ball
    Plus we have DeMAr instead of DeShawn ... better, but same naming convention of "DeSomething"
    Solo is our Mahimini ... Reggie our get in your face Brian Cardinal, who goes for the hard foul!
    BayCityBaller wrote: View Post
    Now, either you play facetious very well, over-estimate all of our players or you have the most positive outlook on this board. I'm going for facetious, but some of those comparisons aren't ridiculously far off. The biggest difference is mental with most of these guys. Dre has a skill set to rival Dirk's. The biggest difference is Dirk is mentally tough and knows when to pick his spots. I truly don't think that Dirk is that much better defensively than Dre, but he and the Mavs coaching staff have figured out ways to mask this deficiency. Barbosa is a solid, fast, intelligent player, much like JET. Terry is more seasoned and loves the ball in clutch situations. Barbosa has the ability to disappear at times. Jose is a very, very bad comparison to Kidd. Kidd is amongst the top 5 PG's of all time. Jose is a foot note in NBA history. Kemba could be a good comparison to JJ. That has yet to be seen. JJ has the ability to be a Marion-like stopper, but Marion's offensive game is far more refined. Solo/ Mahinmi and Reggie/ Caretaker are both fair enough.
    I kind of like this game. Basically the Mavs are what we could be if everyone played to there potential. Bargs becomes the stretch big who makes the other team pay in crunch time, Ed Davis is an incredible defensive big with great instincts on the glass, Demar is a sniper who is also capable of slashng to the rim, James Johnson is a do it all small forward who can guard any three in the league, and Barbosa is already very simiar to Terry. Kidd is a hall of famer but he is also way out of his prime so the Jose comparison is not that rediculous. If you look at their stats, Jose actually had more assists and points per 36 than Kidd this year. The big differences are the fact Kidd rebounds like a sf and that he is a better defender but I think the comparison is not as crazy as it might seem at first glance.
    It's comments like this that get me kind of excited about the next couple seasons.
    Last edited by hateslosing; Thu Jun 16, 2011, 07:29 AM.
    "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

    -Churchill

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    • #32
      Kidd at 38 is a way better defender than Jose at 30. There is no comparison here in my opinion.

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      • #33
        Apollo wrote: View Post
        Kidd at 38 is a way better defender than Jose at 30. There is no comparison here in my opinion.
        Jose is near the same level as kidd in terms of their current offensive abilities. Defensively, yes, Kidd is far better at 38 than Joe at 30 and is a better rebounder than two Jose's at any age. I'm just trying to say that Jose is a very good pass first point, just like Kidd, and if Jose had a full healthy season he may be able to work for us the same way Kidd did this year for the Mavs, just as a lighter version.
        "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

        -Churchill

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        • #34
          hateslosing wrote: View Post
          I kind of like this game. Basically the Mavs are what we could be if everyone played to there potential. Bargs becomes the stretch big who makes the other team pay in crunch time, Ed Davis is an incredible defensive big with great instincts on the glass, Demar is a sniper who is also capable of slashng to the rim, James Johnson is a do it all small forward who can guard any three in the league, and Barbosa is already very simiar to Terry. Kidd is a hall of famer but he is also way out of his prime so the Jose comparison is not that rediculous. If you look at their stats, Jose actually had more assists and points per 36 than Kidd this year. The big differences are the fact Kidd rebounds like a sf and that he is a better defender but I think the comparison is not as crazy as it might seem at first glance.
          It's comments like this that get me kind of excited about the next couple seasons.
          It's comments like this that makes people think Raptor fans are delusional.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
          Follow me on Twitter.

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          • #35
            Tim W. wrote: View Post
            It's comments like this that makes people think Raptor fans are delusional.
            Some of us like to be optimistic Mr. W. I have always found your rampant pessimism disturbing.
            "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

            -Churchill

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            • #36
              hateslosing wrote: View Post
              Some of us like to be optimistic Mr. W. I have always found your rampant pessimism disturbing.
              I resent being called pessimistic about the team. I've consistently stated that I am hopeful for the future of the team, and that I like the way the team is being built. I was one of the most enthusiastic after the Raptors drafted Ed Davis. I never got on the bandwagon to fire Triano. When the team started slowly after the summer they signed Turkoglu, I tried to be the voice of reason and make everyone recall the same slow start the year they won 47 games. I refused to call for trades of players who had a few bad games in a row.

              Yet because I actually use my brain when I talk about the team you call me pessimistic? Give me a break.
              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
              Follow me on Twitter.

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              • #37
                Jose Calderon is on a different planet than Jason Kidd, let alone being in the same sentence.

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                • #38
                  Tim W. wrote: View Post
                  I resent being called pessimistic about the team. I've consistently stated that I am hopeful for the future of the team, and that I like the way the team is being built. I was one of the most enthusiastic after the Raptors drafted Ed Davis. I never got on the bandwagon to fire Triano. When the team started slowly after the summer they signed Turkoglu, I tried to be the voice of reason and make everyone recall the same slow start the year they won 47 games. I refused to call for trades of players who had a few bad games in a row.

                  Yet because I actually use my brain when I talk about the team you call me pessimistic? Give me a break.
                  I call you pessimistic because you think it is delusional our team could eventually by as good as the Mavs. You consistently say your goal is to win a title but the minute someone says that they see some hope in our roster to contend you shoot it down. Maybe you didn't mean that you thought our players were incapable of getting that good and you were just irritated by the fact Bargs was still on the team in the post, I really don't know but if you think it is delusional to think that Ed Davis can be as good as Chandler defensively or that Demar can't become a better player than DeShawn Stevenson I think you are being pessimistic. I am optimistic about this rosters future and I think we have two or three players that will eventually be good enough to start on a contender. The fact you think that line of thought is delusional implies to me you are pessimistic about our future.

                  Apollo wrote: View Post
                  Jose Calderon is on a different planet than Jason Kidd, let alone being in the same sentence.
                  I challenge you Apollo to statistically prove with individual stats that Kidd is a million times better than Jose right. Here are a few fun ones:

                  PER: Jose 15.65, Kidd 15.9
                  Assists per 36: Jose 10.4, Kidd 8.9
                  True shooting %: Jose 52.2, Kidd 50.0

                  I can go on but I'll leave it to you. I'm not trying to say Jose is as good a player as Kidd. Kidd is a much better leader, defender and rebounder. I am just looking at one aspect of their game, offense, and saying Jose is in Kidd's league as of this year. Not last year or ten years ago, right now. I think you are getting caught up in the fact Kidd is a hall of famer and is one of the best points to ever play the game and losing sight of what I'm trying to say which is that right now Jose is as good as Kidd on offense. That is what I am trying to compare.
                  "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                  -Churchill

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                  • #39
                    hateslosing wrote: View Post
                    I call you pessimistic because you think it is delusional our team could eventually by as good as the Mavs. You consistently say your goal is to win a title but the minute someone says that they see some hope in our roster to contend you shoot it down. Maybe you didn't mean that you thought our players were incapable of getting that good and you were just irritated by the fact Bargs was still on the team in the post, I really don't know but if you think it is delusional to think that Ed Davis can be as good as Chandler defensively or that Demar can't become a better player than DeShawn Stevenson I think you are being pessimistic. I am optimistic about this rosters future and I think we have two or three players that will eventually be good enough to start on a contender. The fact you think that line of thought is delusional implies to me you are pessimistic about our future.
                    I'm being realistic. There's a difference. I like DeRozan, but at this point in his development, I think he'd be lucky to become an All-Star. Davis, I think, is the type of player that usually ends up with a Championship by the end of his career, but he's never going to be a top player in the league. And Bargnani, well, I think you know my opinion of Bargnani. I also like Amir and see him as being a good rotation player on a Championship team. That's 3 good pieces, but the Raptors roster is a ways off from having the enough to start thinking about contending. The first and possibly even second best player on a potential Raptor contender are still missing from the team. With Dirk, Dallas is a mediocre team, at best. And right now the Raptors have no one who can become even close to the player Dirk is.
                    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                    • #40
                      well ed will get to do something that chandler never had and never will... and thats making a jump shot.
                      but defensively, ed is not as much of an influence for the team as chandler of course.

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                      • #41
                        Tim W. wrote: View Post
                        I'm being realistic. There's a difference. I like DeRozan, but at this point in his development, I think he'd be lucky to become an All-Star. Davis, I think, is the type of player that usually ends up with a Championship by the end of his career, but he's never going to be a top player in the league. And Bargnani, well, I think you know my opinion of Bargnani. I also like Amir and see him as being a good rotation player on a Championship team. That's 3 good pieces, but the Raptors roster is a ways off from having the enough to start thinking about contending. The first and possibly even second best player on a potential Raptor contender are still missing from the team. With Dirk, Dallas is a mediocre team, at best. And right now the Raptors have no one who can become even close to the player Dirk is.
                        Like I said, I like to be as optimistic as possible, maybe to the point where I'm delusional. I really do think Demar has the potential to be the best shooting guard in the league after Kobe is retired, maybe I'm crazy but if he adds the three and defense to his current game I don't think it's rediculous. Next season will be big for him as I think he is going to be our #1 option, so we'll see if he puts it together. I agree about Ed, he does seem like the kind of guy that sort of puts you over the top, but he is still one of those players who is a starter on a champion. Eveyone else on the team is probably not really champion material but I think it's a little early to make a decision about players like Bayless and James Johnson who may still be able to get to the next level. We are one great player away from being a contender in my opinion, one elite center or point guard and we'll be there in a few years.
                        "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                        -Churchill

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                        • #42
                          keefec wrote: View Post
                          well ed will get to do something that chandler never had and never will... and thats making a jump shot.
                          but defensively, ed is not as much of an influence for the team as chandler of course.
                          Ed was a rookie. Chandler has been in the league for 9 years. I'm no expert, but I'm guessing that could be the difference right there.
                          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                          Follow me on Twitter.

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                          • #43
                            hateslosing wrote: View Post
                            Like I said, I like to be as optimistic as possible, maybe to the point where I'm delusional. I really do think Demar has the potential to be the best shooting guard in the league after Kobe is retired, maybe I'm crazy but if he adds the three and defense to his current game I don't think it's rediculous. Next season will be big for him as I think he is going to be our #1 option, so we'll see if he puts it together. I agree about Ed, he does seem like the kind of guy that sort of puts you over the top, but he is still one of those players who is a starter on a champion. Eveyone else on the team is probably not really champion material but I think it's a little early to make a decision about players like Bayless and James Johnson who may still be able to get to the next level. We are one great player away from being a contender in my opinion, one elite center or point guard and we'll be there in a few years.
                            DeRozan might end up becoming the best SG in the league, but I'd say that would be more due to a dearth of really good SGs than due to DeRozan's dominance. I do think that statements like, "he just needs to add _______ and _______ to become great" are sometimes a little frustrating. The retort I usually give to that is that if I was 6 inches taller, more athletic and more skilled, I could have been in the NBA. It's obviously an exaggeration to make a point, but you understand, hopefully. DeRozan might one day become a decent defender, but after 2 years in the league, I think it's safe to say he'll never become a great defender. We would have seen more by now, if that was the case. I think DeRozan might one day be on a similar level as Iguodala, which is very good. A better scorer, but not as good at the other things. A borderline All-Star who ideally is the third best player on a team.

                            As for what the Raptors are lacking, I think they are one elite player away from being a playoff team. I think they are 1 elite player and an All-Star away from being a contender. And getting that elite player is the tricky part, isn't it? In the 16 year history of the franchise, they're gotten 2, and even that's debatable. And we know it's probably not going to happen in this draft, so we really need to hope they get a high pick next year.
                            Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                            Follow me on Twitter.

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                            • #44
                              Maybe he will be a Tyson Chandler type of player but i think most people don't understand that TC's character and leadership were his most important qualities for the mavs. What he brought goes beyond vertical leap, height with or without shoes and altered shots. He was the KG for the Mavs. If ED can get there? No one can tell.

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                              • #45
                                Tim W. wrote: View Post
                                DeRozan might end up becoming the best SG in the league, but I'd say that would be more due to a dearth of really good SGs than due to DeRozan's dominance. I do think that statements like, "he just needs to add _______ and _______ to become great" are sometimes a little frustrating. The retort I usually give to that is that if I was 6 inches taller, more athletic and more skilled, I could have been in the NBA. It's obviously an exaggeration to make a point, but you understand, hopefully. DeRozan might one day become a decent defender, but after 2 years in the league, I think it's safe to say he'll never become a great defender. We would have seen more by now, if that was the case. I think DeRozan might one day be on a similar level as Iguodala, which is very good. A better scorer, but not as good at the other things. A borderline All-Star who ideally is the third best player on a team.

                                As for what the Raptors are lacking, I think they are one elite player away from being a playoff team. I think they are 1 elite player and an All-Star away from being a contender. And getting that elite player is the tricky part, isn't it? In the 16 year history of the franchise, they're gotten 2, and even that's debatable. And we know it's probably not going to happen in this draft, so we really need to hope they get a high pick next year.
                                As far as DD's defence is concerned it is very rare that a 2 guard comes into the league able to play defense at a high level, they are simply not strong enough and don't have the experience, so I think he has a chance to become a very good defender a few years down the road. I like the Iguodala comparison and I guess I am sort of envisionning DD as a bigger, much better scoring version of Igi in the long run.
                                I think we are one really great player away from contending but I tend to think that that player is more of a hustle type player like a Joakhim Noah than it is an elite offensive player like a Lebron James. I think Derozen can be the best scorer on a champion but we need the elite D on the inside to have a chance.
                                "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                                -Churchill

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