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  • #16
    http://http://bluemanhoop.com/2013/06/09/golden-state-warriors-revisiting-a-possible-andrea-bargnani-trade/

    I just tried to post, but I think it got lost. Anyway, Biedrins for Bargnani clears money off the books a year earlier and Biedrins might surprise us in a contract year. The guy is an elite blocker when he's dialed in and his problems are all mental (so a change of scenery might do him good) though we'd all have to turn and look away when he gets to the line, lol.

    Comment


    • #17
      Sorry, Apollo.

      Comment


      • #18
        Apollo wrote: View Post
        Tempted to move this to the trade discussion board but I know I'll only be doing it again in a weeks time. Proceed but let's try to not make this a trade scenario dominated thread.
        The same original post was also posted in the stickied "Read this First" thread that Matt started. I moved that one to the Trade Forum, before stumbling across this thread...

        Comment


        • #19
          I think it is a good thread to have going considering it looks like blowing it up is on the table.

          Now that BC is no longer making decisions, we can't be certain anyone from MLSE is snooping on those dirty ol' "bloggers" but, hey, you never know. lol

          Comment


          • #20
            Bargnani for an expiring
            Fields for a back up pg and expiring
            Derozan for a mid/late first rounder and a bench scorer


            Starting
            JV/Amir/Gay/Ross/Lowry

            With the current state of the franchise (and inevitable rebuild) I'm willing to give Ross the benefit of the doubt. Derozan is not this franchise's future, and I don't believe him and Rudy could ever get us past the first round (unless colangelo gets a new gm job somewhere, I think derozan will fetch more than gay given his youth and more palatable contract). Even if Ross turns out to be a bust after getting real minutes, at least we'll be in good position for next year's deep draft. I don't know what Ross could fetch on the market anyway.

            Comment


            • #21
              qb5PHILA@hotmail.com wrote: View Post
              Am I misusing hypothetical?
              I think so. You need to insert the word "my" or "possible"..your making me think you have inside information or something..
              If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

              Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

              Comment


              • #22
                need to pick up a pg in this draft and start pg,ross,fields,acy,jv

                Comment


                • #23
                  Any talk of a rebuild should be called what it is: tanking or blowing it up. So with that in mind, here is what I would do:

                  Old Roster (73 mill)

                  Jonas/Gray
                  Amir/Bargs/Acy
                  Gay/Fields/Anderson/Kleiza/Pietrus
                  Derozan/Ross
                  Lowry/Lucas/Telfair

                  Roster Moves

                  Option Declined

                  Goodbye John Lucas III


                  Amnesty

                  Goodbye Kleiza (needs to be done to make #'s work on upcoming trades)


                  Trades

                  Gay for #4, Ben Gordon, 2014 Pistons pick (top 8 protected)
                  Bargnani and Gray for Biedrins, Jefferson, #13, 2014 pick from GSW (three team deal, Marion to GSW)
                  DeRozan and Lowry for #14, Hayward, Williams, 2014 pick from Utah


                  Draft

                  2013
                  #4: Bennett
                  #13: Schroeder
                  #14: Adetokunbo (Euro stash for 2 seasons in ACB)

                  2014
                  Raps own pick
                  Detroit (top 8 protected '14, top 1 '15, unprotected 2016)
                  GSW
                  Utah


                  Free Agents
                  Veteran free agent PG with full or partial MLE (Mo Williams, Darren Collison, Beno Udrih)
                  Minimum 3rd string PG


                  New 2013-14 roster

                  PG: (Vet), Schroeder, (min)
                  SG: Fields, Ross, Gordon
                  SF: Hayward, Jefferson, Williams
                  PF: Amir, Bennett, Acy
                  C: Jonas, Biedrins


                  The biggest problem (besides reality) is the total salary is $75.6M which puts them about $4M over the projected luxury tax of $71.6M. However, if MLSE are serious about being willing to pay the tax if it makes the team better, getting 3 2013 draft picks and 3 extra 2014 draft picks would be a good way to put their money where their mouth is. Also, the repeater tax does not kick in until a team has been a tax payer for 3 of 4 seasons. The next time the Raptors could possibly be a tax team would be 2016-17 when JV and (possibly) Ross would be up for extensions.

                  One roster space is left over for flexibility in 2013-14.

                  What I like about the roster is you have 3 young, solid veterans in Hayward, Fields, and Amir. They are complimentary professional role players who can grow with the team. Hayward would be a restricted free agent after 2013 but Raps would have right to match any contract.

                  The luxury tax would certainly not be a problem in 2013-2014. Gordon, Jefferson, Williams, and Biedrins would all be expiring with $41M coming off the books. 2013-2014 cap situation would be about $32M plus another $12M in possible 2014 rookie deals plus Hayward extension. The goal would be to keep the payroll around $50M so the Raps can enter the 2014-2015 season able to facilitate financial trades much like the Cavs did this past year.

                  The 2014 draft looks extremely promising at PG, SF, and PF. The hope is a franchise talent (*gasp* or two!) is found in this draft.

                  Come 2015-2016 season, the Raptors roster would hopefully be full of promising rookie contract talent with veteran role players like Amir, Fields, and Hayward rounding out the 2nd string and in their prime. There would be all sorts of possibilities with trades and free agency or if the whole "build through the draft" thing worked out, extensions would start being signed.


                  **I always find these types of ideas fun because of the unknown with the draft. The danger of the unknown, though, is no one ever thinks about drafting a bust (either through injury, lacking NBA talent, disinterest after getting paid, poor fit). Everyone dreams of picking the LeBron James but do not consider the possibility of getting a Michael Beasley or Adam Morrison. If a bust occurs, all these grand dreams of greatness end up.... well, like the last 5 years and 13 of 18.**

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I'm 99% sure that Orlando isn't trading for Gay.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I like the idea of Amir starting. I think he's earned it already, let the man prove himself to be able to handle the gig.

                      I hope he never wears another jersey for his career.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        if the cavs are interested in granny danger, maybe they would take a gay for tt kind of thing

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          If we're gonna go full rebuild/tank, I would go this route:


                          1. Trade Gay to Cleveland for Tristan Thompson, Alonzo Gee, Tyler Zeller, Cleveland's #31 second-round draft pick in 2013, their own 2014 first-rounder and second-rounder
                          2. Trade Bargnani and Aaron Gray to Charlotte for Ben Gordon + Portland's protected 2014 first-round pick
                          3. Trade Lowry and Ross to Sacramento for John Salmons + Isaiah Thomas + Sacramento's 2014 pick
                          4. Resign Alan Anderson at league minimum

                          In the 2013 draft, draft Myck Kabongo, and your lineup is now

                          PG: Thomas/Kabongo/JL3
                          SG: DeRozan/Gordon/Salmons
                          SF: Fields/Gee/Anderson
                          PF: Amir/Thompson/Acy
                          C: Jonas/Zeller

                          And we have 2014 first rounders from Sacramento, Cleveland, Portland (top-12 protected but Portland has good odds of avoiding that) and our own, plus our second-rounders from Sacramento and Cleveland. Salmons may have lost his shot almost entirely and be a liability on the floor, but he has great basketball IQ and DeMar can learn that from him. We have very good, very young point guards - we might want to let JL3 walk if we can find a veteran floor general to teach them. We're stacked for young talented bigs. It's a very raw young team, but one with lots of potential.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            If we have Thompson hes starting over Amir no doubt.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              magoon wrote: View Post
                              If we're gonna go full rebuild/tank, I would go this route:


                              1. Trade Gay to Cleveland for Tristan Thompson, Alonzo Gee, Tyler Zeller, Cleveland's #31 second-round draft pick in 2013, their own 2014 first-rounder and second-rounder
                              2. Trade Bargnani and Aaron Gray to Charlotte for Ben Gordon + Portland's protected 2014 first-round pick
                              3. Trade Lowry and Ross to Sacramento for John Salmons + Isaiah Thomas + Sacramento's 2014 pick
                              4. Resign Alan Anderson at league minimum

                              In the 2013 draft, draft Myck Kabongo, and your lineup is now

                              PG: Thomas/Kabongo/JL3
                              SG: DeRozan/Gordon/Salmons
                              SF: Fields/Gee/Anderson
                              PF: Amir/Thompson/Acy
                              C: Jonas/Zeller

                              And we have 2014 first rounders from Sacramento, Cleveland, Portland (top-12 protected but Portland has good odds of avoiding that) and our own, plus our second-rounders from Sacramento and Cleveland. Salmons may have lost his shot almost entirely and be a liability on the floor, but he has great basketball IQ and DeMar can learn that from him. We have very good, very young point guards - we might want to let JL3 walk if we can find a veteran floor general to teach them. We're stacked for young talented bigs. It's a very raw young team, but one with lots of potential.
                              I have a really hard time saying I wouldn't do this and I'm a huge Ross fan.

                              I'm not sure teams are going to be giving up picks for next years draft tho.
                              @sweatpantsjer

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                Any talk of a rebuild should be called what it is: tanking or blowing it up. So with that in mind, here is what I would do:

                                Old Roster (73 mill)

                                Jonas/Gray
                                Amir/Bargs/Acy
                                Gay/Fields/Anderson/Kleiza/Pietrus
                                Derozan/Ross
                                Lowry/Lucas/Telfair

                                Roster Moves

                                Option Declined

                                Goodbye John Lucas III


                                Amnesty

                                Goodbye Kleiza (needs to be done to make #'s work on upcoming trades)


                                Trades

                                Gay for #4, Ben Gordon, 2014 Pistons pick (top 8 protected)
                                Bargnani and Gray for Biedrins, Jefferson, #13, 2014 pick from GSW (three team deal, Marion to GSW)
                                DeRozan and Lowry for #14, Hayward, Williams, 2014 pick from Utah


                                Draft

                                2013
                                #4: Bennett
                                #13: Schroeder
                                #14: Adetokunbo (Euro stash for 2 seasons in ACB)

                                2014
                                Raps own pick
                                Detroit (top 8 protected '14, top 1 '15, unprotected 2016)
                                GSW
                                Utah


                                Free Agents
                                Veteran free agent PG with full or partial MLE (Mo Williams, Darren Collison, Beno Udrih)
                                Minimum 3rd string PG


                                New 2013-14 roster

                                PG: (Vet), Schroeder, (min)
                                SG: Fields, Ross, Gordon
                                SF: Hayward, Jefferson, Williams
                                PF: Amir, Bennett, Acy
                                C: Jonas, Biedrins


                                The biggest problem (besides reality) is the total salary is $75.6M which puts them about $4M over the projected luxury tax of $71.6M. However, if MLSE are serious about being willing to pay the tax if it makes the team better, getting 3 2013 draft picks and 3 extra 2014 draft picks would be a good way to put their money where their mouth is. Also, the repeater tax does not kick in until a team has been a tax payer for 3 of 4 seasons. The next time the Raptors could possibly be a tax team would be 2016-17 when JV and (possibly) Ross would be up for extensions.

                                One roster space is left over for flexibility in 2013-14.

                                What I like about the roster is you have 3 young, solid veterans in Hayward, Fields, and Amir. They are complimentary professional role players who can grow with the team. Hayward would be a restricted free agent after 2013 but Raps would have right to match any contract.

                                The luxury tax would certainly not be a problem in 2013-2014. Gordon, Jefferson, Williams, and Biedrins would all be expiring with $41M coming off the books. 2013-2014 cap situation would be about $32M plus another $12M in possible 2014 rookie deals plus Hayward extension. The goal would be to keep the payroll around $50M so the Raps can enter the 2014-2015 season able to facilitate financial trades much like the Cavs did this past year.

                                The 2014 draft looks extremely promising at PG, SF, and PF. The hope is a franchise talent (*gasp* or two!) is found in this draft.

                                Come 2015-2016 season, the Raptors roster would hopefully be full of promising rookie contract talent with veteran role players like Amir, Fields, and Hayward rounding out the 2nd string and in their prime. There would be all sorts of possibilities with trades and free agency or if the whole "build through the draft" thing worked out, extensions would start being signed.


                                **I always find these types of ideas fun because of the unknown with the draft. The danger of the unknown, though, is no one ever thinks about drafting a bust (either through injury, lacking NBA talent, disinterest after getting paid, poor fit). Everyone dreams of picking the LeBron James but do not consider the possibility of getting a Michael Beasley or Adam Morrison. If a bust occurs, all these grand dreams of greatness end up.... well, like the last 5 years and 13 of 18.**
                                I'd be ecstatic if we could get all that for Rudy Gay. The Bobcats already have MKG but he'd probably be better coming off the bench (until he develops a bit more) and playing in small ball lineups with Gay at the 4. Taking on Gordon's crap contract is a deal sweetener to get the extra pick. Seems realistic to me.

                                As for the Utah trade, I'm not sure Utah would want to swap Hayward with Derozan. I think they'd much rather keep Hayward as their starting SF next to Derozan since Hayward is great from 3 and can spread the floor. I also think Hayward is a better player than Derozan, so that swap doesn't really seem like a sweetener to get them to throw in picks. The trade still works fine with just Williams for Lowry and DD. But then I feel like we're giving up too much just for two so-so draft picks. What's great is the trade also works with just Lowry for Marvin Williams and the #14 pick (maybe get a 2nd rounder as well). I think that makes the most sense for both sides. Then we could use DD in a different deal.

                                How about DD and Kleiza to OKC for Perkins, Perry Jones, our pick back this year, and OKC's first round pick next year? I think that makes sense for both sides. We get a veteran backup C, a young player with loads of potential in Perry, as well as 2 more draft picks. OKC gets their new starting SG and an expiring contract instead of Perkins bloated deal. I don't see a ton of playing time being available for Perry anytime soon in OKC, and that's what he'll need if he is ever going to going to develop, so Toronto will be a much better situation for him. Since we're getting the #12 pick in this years draft from this trade, perhaps change the pick acquired in the Lowry deal to Utah's 2014 first rounder.

                                I can't get this trade to work in the trade checker (Bargnani and Gray for Biedrins, Jefferson, #13, 2014 pick from GSW (three team deal, Marion to GSW)). How about just Bargs for Biedrins and GSW 2014 first round pick? I just don't see us parlaying Bargs into 2 first round draft picks, even taking back some bad salaries (Bargs is a bad salary too).

                                Then we'd have the following picks:
                                2013: #4, and #12
                                2014: Our pick, GSW Pick, Utah's pick, Detroit's Pick (top 8 protected)

                                Players sent out:
                                Bargnani, Lowry, Derozan, Gay, Kleiza

                                Players coming in:
                                Marvin Williams, Perkins, Biedrins, Gordon, Perry Jones

                                Expected Lineup:
                                PG: MCW (#12 pick), FA, Gordon (part time)
                                SG: Ross, Fields (part time), Gordon (part time)
                                SF: Marvin Williams, Perry Jones, Fields (part time)
                                PF: Anthony Bennett (#4 Pick), Amir, Acy
                                C: JV, Gray, Perkins, Biedrins

                                Leaves us a little heavy on the frontcourt, but Biedrins is garbage and will just sit on the bench anyways. That is a team that will grow but not win many games, which will be perfect to get ready for the 2014 draft when we put in the finishing pieces of the rebuild.

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