2011 Draft Rumors & Discussion

[Apollo]

I watched those games. Walker played far better than his stats implied and outplayed Knight in the final. Not to mention they would have never even made the tournament if Walker hadn't carried them there. They had a totally depleted squad. No depth, little talent outside a few key guys and Walker delivered big all season while kicking ass in class and finishing his degree early. Walker is athletic, highly skilled and very smart. The only real reasons people bring up that they don't want him is that

a.) He shot the ball a lot so he "must" be a chucker. Not true, his A:T was through the roof and he shot so much because he was asked to due to a lack of depth.

b.) He's not a great shooter. Not true when it's clutch time and any issues with his shot can easily be cleared up with hard work and good coaching. He's known for being one of the hardest worker on his team and he will get world class coaching in the NBA.

c.) He's short. Well, his team page lists him at 6'1" and most other places list him at 6'0-6'1". That's not bad for a PG seeing how arguably the two best in the league are around that size. I'm talking Rondo and Paul. Walker is just as fast and athletic as those guys and he prides himself on defense, just like Rondo did when entering the pros.

The main reason people bring up for Knight is "size". Second is upside. What about his inconsistent shot? How's his ball IQ compared to Walker? How's his maturity, work ethic and leadership skills compared to Walker? Walker is not like many of the flashy NYC PG of the past decade that entered the league. He's not selfish. He is mature. He does work hard. He does respond to coaching. He likes defense. He is a good leader.

[RaptorDan]

While Kemba was solid this year in college, he reminds me a lot of Johnny Flynn, and I'm not so sure Kemba's transition to the NBA will be smooth. Taking Kemba at #3 would be a pretty big risk. If I was Utah, then I might be thinking Kemba.

On the subject of undersized PGs, if we picked up a second round pick, I would be up for taking a chance on Isaiah Thomas from Washington. He reminds me a bit of Nate Robinson.

[chris]

I watched those games. Walker played far better than his stats implied and outplayed Knight in the final. Not to mention they would have never even made the tournament if Walker hadn't carried them there. They had a totally depleted squad. No depth, little talent outside a few key guys and Walker delivered big all season while kicking ass in class and finishing his degree early. Walker is athletic, highly skilled and very smart. The only real reasons people bring up that they don't want him is that

a.) He shot the ball a lot so he "must" be a chucker. Not true, his A:T was through the roof and he shot so much because he was asked to due to a lack of depth.

b.) He's not a great shooter. Not true when it's clutch time and any issues with his shot can easily be cleared up with hard work and good coaching. He's known for being one of the hardest worker on his team and he will get world class coaching in the NBA.

c.) He's short. Well, his team page lists him at 6'1" and most other places list him at 6'0-6'1". That's not bad for a PG seeing how arguably the two best in the league are around that size. I'm talking Rondo and Paul. Walker is just as fast and athletic as those guys and he prides himself on defense, just like Rondo did when entering the pros.

The main reason people bring up for Knight is "size". Second is upside. What about his inconsistent shot? How's his ball IQ compared to Walker? How's his maturity, work ethic and leadership skills compared to Walker? Walker is not like many of the flashy NYC PG of the past decade that entered the league. He's not selfish. He is mature. He does work hard. He does respond to coaching. He likes defense. He is a good leader.

you're defending walker as if i was attacking him. i don't mean to bust on walker. i like him, and i like knight. i agree with everything you said here about kemba, and i also agree that he is the safer pick. i just happen to think knight has a higher ceiling. i honestly have no idea who i'd pick between the two. i guess it depends on how you feel about potential vs. likely production.

anyhow, i think it's really hard to compare the two based on the 10-11 seasons alone, even in head to head match-ups, because players develop. just like walker, knight absolutely carried his team at times and won games for them to get them to the final four. and just like walker in his freshman season, knight had some duds. (for the record, while kemba was terrible against MSU in the 09 final four, he had a huge game against mizzou in the elite eight, which is the first impression he had on me.).

[RaptorsFan4Life]

I agree Biyombo fills a bigger need but, you never draft for need.

You aren't drafting solely for need with that pick. You're getting someone with hands down the most potential in this draft (most the player in this draft dont even look like stars including Irving and Derrick Williams) who's young and will develop. We are rebuilding right now. We don't need someone who can come in right now and change the team. Look at how Rudy Gay slipped in the 2006 draft and where he's now. Look at Jrue Holiday. IDK why people insist on getting player that are ready now with high draft pick. It's not even like the NFL where you have you give them all star money if you pick them very high.

[Maleko]

You aren't drafting solely for need with that pick. You're getting someone with hands down the most potential in this draft (most the player in this draft dont even look like stars including Irving and Derrick Williams) who's young and will develop. We are rebuilding right now. We don't need someone who can come in right now and change the team. Look at how Rudy Gay slipped in the 2006 draft and where he's now. Look at Jrue Holiday. IDK why people insist on getting player that are ready now with high draft pick. It's not even like the NFL where you have you give them all star money if you pick them very high.

Actually the NBA has pretty much set how much draft picks get paid by draft slot. At #3 pick he would be guaranteed $4.2M with set raises per year.

[Joey]

IDK why people insist on getting player that are ready now with high draft pick. It's not even like the NFL where you have you give them all star money if you pick them very high.

... Yes it is. The Rookie Pay Scale is a HUGE factor in terms of who and where you are picking.

One of the big issues for the Last CBA was the Rookie Pay Scale.

If we draft someone with the intention of them NOT coming in and having an immediate impact, then not only do you NOT want to be paying them $4-5M, but you also don't want to waste a high pick, where by we could make the Selection of 'Best Player Available' and then Trade the asset down the line if the player is deemed expendable and not part of the future plans. But to say, 'draft someone who is clearly less talented and less experienced, and less skilled JUST because they are Less Talented and Less Experienced, is a bit silly. We need as much Talent on this team as possible. Whether its for the Near Future or the Long Term outlook, Talent = Assets. We need ALL the assets we can get.

[Apollo]

You aren't drafting solely for need with that pick. You're getting someone with hands down the most potential in this draft (most the player in this draft dont even look like stars including Irving and Derrick Williams) who's young and will develop. We are rebuilding right now. We don't need someone who can come in right now and change the team. Look at how Rudy Gay slipped in the 2006 draft and where he's now. Look at Jrue Holiday. IDK why people insist on getting player that are ready now with high draft pick. It's not even like the NFL where you have you give them all star money if you pick them very high.

If they wanted a 26 year old center then why not just go sign one?

While Kemba was solid this year in college, he reminds me a lot of Johnny Flynn, and I'm not so sure Kemba's transition to the NBA will be smooth. Taking Kemba at #3 would be a pretty big risk. If I was Utah, then I might be thinking Kemba.

He's no more of a risk than any other option at #3 in this draft. They're all risks. For the record, he's not my pick at #3 but if they're looking for a PG then he's not that far behind Irving.

On the subject of undersized PGs, if we picked up a second round pick, I would be up for taking a chance on Isaiah Thomas from Washington. He reminds me a bit of Nate Robinson.

Thomas is 5'8". Walker is 6'1" (as listed on his team website). What do you call undersized? Irving is only 6'2". Rajon Rondo and Chris Paul are around Walker's height and I don't hear anyone calling them undersized PG.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

[/B]
Actually the NBA has pretty much set how much draft picks get paid by draft slot. At #3 pick he would be guaranteed $4.2M with set raises per year.

In the NFL they get 50-60 million guaranteed at #1 and only slightly less up till #10.

If they wanted a 26 year old center then why not just go sign one?

It's EXTREMELY unlike that he's 26.

[Apollo]

Alright, well the rumor is 23-26. Even if 23 is his age, where he's at now if he's 23 does not warrant a top three pick. Probably not a top ten pick either. Players at 23 have a far lower ceiling than players with the same abilities at age 18.

[grindhouse]

I don't really care about age mainly because when you draft a 18 -19 year old they haven't learned the game yet and while they are talented are going to spend 2 - 3 years learning. If we are drafting in the lottery I want a player that is going to produce right now and keep producing for the next 6 - 7 years. I personally don't like paying kids big money when they are not ready for it. If kemba was a inch or 2 taller when would be hands down the number one pick in the draft, no questions asked.

I watched every game of his in both tournaments and he plays near perfect basketball thats the reason he did not lose 1 tournament game this year (maui, big east, and NCAA). he is not the greatest shooter but he doesn't take bad shots.

[Apollo]

Fine but how does that apply here? Whether the guy is 23 or 18, that doesn't change his game right now. I'm talking about the future. The reason the guy is a potential lotto pick is because of perceived upside due to his listed age of 18. If he's 23 then suddenly his upside is greatly reduced. His game right now is exactly the same no matter if reality is that he's 18, 23 or 26. His future is a lot different if he's 18, 23 or 26 with his current game.

[grindhouse]

I wasn't commenting directly to you apollo just kinda spiting out my thoughts on the age thing but for example irving vs kemba, who would you pick? I would pick kemba because I know exactly what I am getting, irving may one day play as solid as kemba but right now IMHO kemba is better. In kemba I see rondo and irving I see tru holiday.

[Apollo]

That's a tough one because I'm a huge Kemba Walker fan. The kid is such a great player and person. I feel he's going to be a very nice player and he deserves it as much as anybody. Irving has all the hype but I didn't get to see him play hardly at all this year. I want to say Walker but it's tough to hurdle over the Irving hype.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

Alright, well the rumor is 23-26. Even if 23 is his age, where he's at now if he's 23 does not warrant a top three pick. Probably not a top ten pick either. Players at 23 have a far lower ceiling than players with the same abilities at age 18.

Well its sjust that. A rumor. Pretty much all international african player have to deal with this BS. The test proved he's 18 at most. If you have proof (not some guys speculating, proof) that he's 23 to 26 post it.

[grindhouse]

exactly its very tough to pick I don't envy these GM's at all especially BC who's job is probably on the line with this draft. it's potential vs what you know. I could make the same argument for faried vs biyombo that is if he is 18 -19 years old, right now they have biyombo going after faried on draftnet but not too long ago he was a top 5 pick.