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Rebuild or Re-tool? (thread merge in post #358)

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  • #91
    coastal wrote: View Post
    ...I'm a huge fan of his game (pre Raptors).
    I'm a huge fan of his game during his stint here, except for his shooting. If he gets 80% of his stroke back he is a starter, no question. He brings a lot to the table outside of his shot. Better D, always cutting, makes the other team move to cover him, which cause openings and the opposing players move to adjust.

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    • #92
      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      A few things bolded above:

      1) This is your 7th post. Not sure we've gone back and forth all the time.

      2) No one here is arguing. It is a forum for discussion. If you can think of better Raptor conversation pieces, please start a new thread.

      3) The Raptors won 23 games last season in a 65 game, lockout shortened season. The Raptors won 36 of 82 games this year. Winning percentage increased from .348 to .415.
      They won 34 games this season, not 36

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      • #93
        Holy shit, I feel like smaller posts need to be written. I've already spent 30 minutes reading through 3 pages.

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        • #94
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          He was the starter for two seasons on a playoff team and he was injured this past season.

          In my opinion he is a better starter for THE RAPTORS is all I am saying. Fit with gay.
          Fields has played like dog shit the past 2 years, not just 1. He had one decent, not good, not great, but decent season his first year. If you're being realistic then it's far more likely Fields plays like last year than like his rookie year. There is no precedent I can think of where a player played like crap 2 years in a row and then an elbow surgery fixed their stroke, so I'm just playing the odds. I'd give a 10% chance Fields can get his 3's back above 30%. Seems like you give it a 90% chance. I think Fields is a horrible fit in any starting lineup because his shooting is awful. Until he proves he can shoot he isn't a better fit with Gay. Currently, DD is a better shooter from just about everywhere on the floor, including 3.

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          • #95
            Primer wrote: View Post
            Fields has played like dog shit the past 2 years, not just 1. He had one decent, not good, not great, but decent season his first year. If you're being realistic then it's far more likely Fields plays like last year than like his rookie year. There is no precedent I can think of where a player played like crap 2 years in a row and then an elbow surgery fixed their stroke, so I'm just playing the odds. I'd give a 10% chance Fields can get his 3's back above 30%. Seems like you give it a 90% chance. I think Fields is a horrible fit in any starting lineup because his shooting is awful. Until he proves he can shoot he isn't a better fit with Gay. Currently, DD is a better shooter from just about everywhere on the floor, including 3.
            He was a starter on a playoff team for two years. You said he was not Nba starter talent. His talent is not the issue, the health of his elbow is but even with that hinderance he still has a better net on his off/der Rtg

            I am not into guessing percentages as I don't know. He showed improvement as the year progressed and Raps medical staff expect full recovery.

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            • #96
              Primer wrote: View Post
              Fields has played like dog shit the past 2 years, not just 1. He had one decent, not good, not great, but decent season his first year. If you're being realistic then it's far more likely Fields plays like last year than like his rookie year. There is no precedent I can think of where a player played like crap 2 years in a row and then an elbow surgery fixed their stroke, so I'm just playing the odds. I'd give a 10% chance Fields can get his 3's back above 30%. Seems like you give it a 90% chance. I think Fields is a horrible fit in any starting lineup because his shooting is awful. Until he proves he can shoot he isn't a better fit with Gay. Currently, DD is a better shooter from just about everywhere on the floor, including 3.
              Decent?

              He made All-Rookie first team, and he beat out players like Paul George and Eric Bledsoe. But whatever.
              Twitter - @thekid_it

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              • #97
                Talent should be an issue. Either way, trading Derozan and throwing Fields in the starting line-up is a pretty risky move. It could easily go horribly wrong.
                You come at the King, you best not miss.

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                • #98
                  isaacthompson wrote: View Post
                  Decent?

                  He made All-Rookie first team, and he beat out players like Paul George and Eric Bledsoe. But whatever.
                  Dion Waiters is all rookie first team this year. I wouldn't call his season anything better than decent. Fields rookie year was good for a rookie but nothing extraordinary for a typical NBA player. He basically averaged 9 pts and 6 rebounds.

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                  • #99
                    If Fields proves he can start that's one thing, but to give him that role by trading Demar before he earns that spot, and not replacing Demar with a better player is ridiculous. Too many ifs with Landry. This isn't even worth debating until we can get a better grasp of what Fields is post surgery.

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                    • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                      If Fields proves he can start that's one thing, but to give him that role by trading Demar before he earns that spot, and not replacing Demar with a better player is ridiculous. Too many ifs with Landry. This isn't even worth debating until we can get a better grasp of what Fields is post surgery.
                      Win shares through theNBAGeek.com and net OffRtg/DefRtg through stats.nba.com say differently -even injured.

                      The five best players is not always the best lineup.

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                      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        Win shares through theNBAGeek.com and net OffRtg/DefRtg through stats.nba.com say differently -even injured.

                        The five best players is not always the best lineup.
                        As an example, Harden coming off the bench worked pretty well. Derozan coming off the bench might be awesome if the Raos had a decent PG as a backup.

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                        • Puffer wrote: View Post
                          As an example, Harden coming off the bench worked pretty well. Derozan coming off the bench might be awesome if the Raos had a decent PG as a backup.
                          Definitely agree. DeRozan as 6th man on this team would be interesting. Problem of course is filling the holes in other areas with limited assets and exceptions.

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                          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            Win shares through theNBAGeek.com and net OffRtg/DefRtg through stats.nba.com say differently -even injured.

                            The five best players is not always the best lineup.
                            I'm well aware of that but this whole line of thinking feels like the carriage is in front of the horse to me. Also, by me saying that they should replace Demar with a better talent if they make a trade does not preclude the idea of Fields starting. I really like Demar as a player, but I also realize that the Raptors suck. If trading him would have a significantly positive impact on the team, I'm all for it. If moving him to the bench benefits the team I'm for that too. However, I feel like no one knows what version of Landry Fields is playing for the Raptors. And Ross is at least a year from being even in this debate.

                            Also, Demar played a lot more with AB than Fields did. He also played during the worst stretch of the season while Fields was injured. Simply using these two stats in a vacuum does not tell the whole story. I'm not saying that you're wrong but I would need something significantly more in depth than that (using situational data, video based analytical data, etc) to come to any conclusion.

                            For instance, for all of his poor individual stats the defensive ranking of the starting lineup was extremely high. That could be for a number of reasons. One could argue that it proves that the wing spots work well together guarding players. But again, that stat doesn't tell the whole story. I want to know the whole story. To me that includes finding out what a healthy Landry Fields looks like on the court.

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                            • Raptors should not trade Demar and start Landry because "theNBAGeek.com and net OffRtg/DefRtg through stats.nba.com" say it's a good idea. Point finale. I just find that ridiculous. Lets see how Landry does next season before this is even brought up again.
                              You come at the King, you best not miss.

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                              • This thread sucks. So many UNREALISTIC what if scenarios. So many unrealistic trade suggestions.

                                Let's be real here. Do you guys really think DeRozan is going anywhere? the guy just signed a 4 year extension 7 months ago. If they move him, do you guys really think the Raptors will be a better team next season? or get a great package or young player in return? i don't think so.

                                Second, do you guys really think the Raps will just let Gay walk away or use him as a trade chip? really? he's the best player they've had since CHRIS BOSH. Best winger they've had by far since VINCE CARTER. Yeah trade him. Shaking my head right now.

                                Like it or not, this is the core of the team: JV, Gay, DeRozan, Lowry, Amir and Ross. I'd like to see what this current group of guys can do in a full season before i make any move.
                                Mamba Mentality

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