ESPN 5-on-5: Rudy Gay most Overrated Small Forward.

[Rapstor4Life]

Overpaid not overrated.

This Im agreeing with TRex again...lol

[Superjudge]

Lets get 5 forum members together, each of you take one of these writers and do 5 mins of research. I would love to see a quote from each guy about Rudy Gay in the 3 years or so before he came to Toronto. I bet each of these writers was singing a different tune about Gay before he came North at one point of another. You see it a lot, and it's not new, Media types are like High School kids when it comes to taking the easy way out, and bashing perceived easy targets. Toronto ownership in the past, IMO, has done a piss poor job of having their own investments back in this regard, and to be honest, I would wager that this new Tom dude will NOT stand for a lot of negative and undeserved media attention as the months go on.

[Superjudge]

If anyone is overrated it's Paul George I'm sorry.

He's a great two-way player, but this superstar talk needs to stop. Just to put it in perspective. DeRozan who routinely gets crucified for being inefficient, scored more points on the same number of shots as Paul George last year despite George being a much better 3 point shooter.

paul George is over rated?

Please explain. And don't use just stats because I'm sorry, there is more going on out there than just stats. Paul George is a VERY good player and getting better. I like Gay too, but lets not feel like we need to rip down a great player to defend gay, it doesnt make a great deal of sense to do it that way.

[BobLoblaw]

How is Josh Smith overrated? If anything he's one of the more underrated players in the NBA.

He's never made the all-star team and most people just label him as an inefficient chucker.

This is a guy that has averaged 15-8-3 with a 52% TS percentage and a PER of 18 for his career. He is also one of the best two-way players in basketball along with LBJ, Paul George, Dwight etc and the only person more versatile than him as a defender is LeBron.

I don't think that's true (the "just" part). People do label him as an inefficient chucker among other things, and he is an inefficient chucker. But most people (in my experience) treat him like an all star despite that.

PS: defensive versatility is nice, but quality > quantity. He's a very good defender but he makes a lot of mistakes and poor gambles. As an overall defender, he shouldn't be mentioned in the same category as those other names in your post.

[planetmars]

In my opinion the most overrated SF is Gallinari. He can shoot, but he can't play defense. And defense is half the battle.

Gay is being 'picked on' because of his salary but as others have stated being overpaid is not the same as being overrated.

[BobLoblaw]

In my opinion the most overrated SF is Gallinari. He can shoot, but he can't play defense. And defense is half the battle.

Gay is being 'picked on' because of his salary but as others have stated being overpaid is not the same as being overrated.

He can play defense, though. He's never going to be a lockdown defender, he doesn't have that type of quickness, but he's a solid defender.

[Superjudge]

If Toronto, as a team starts winning, see's success, then gay will be given a pass, until then, not a chance.

[Xixak]

paul George is over rated?

Please explain. And don't use just stats because I'm sorry, there is more going on out there than just stats. Paul George is a VERY good player and getting better. I like Gay too, but lets not feel like we need to rip down a great player to defend gay, it doesnt make a great deal of sense to do it that way.

I'm not "ripping" Paul George. He's a top 5 SF in the NBA. I'm saying he's overrated. Look at how many people were declaring him a superstar during the playoffs. He might be a defensive star but offensively he has a long way to go. He's not a very efficient scorer despite having lower volume than the REAL superstars in the league, he's not good at getting to the FT Line and he turns it over at quite a high rate (3 turnovers to just 4 assists).

There's nothing about him that makes him a superstar. That's why he's overrated. If people were calling Gay a superstar I'd say he's overrated as well, but they don't.

[Superjudge]

Ok. Fair enough. I tend to not use the term anyhow, I hate it, always have. Players worth is always subject to team success anyhow. Its perception. placed in a given circumstance, a guy can look like and MVP, or look like a nobody.

Gay is a good player, and so is George.

[p00ka]

Ok. Fair enough. I tend to not use the term anyhow, I hate it, always have. Players worth is always subject to team success anyhow. Its perception. placed in a given circumstance, a guy can look like and MVP, or look like a nobody.

Gay is a good player, and so is George.

I agree with all, but what really gets me about such discussion is embodied in the ESPN piece itself. Nothing muddies an already subjective opinion more than an unidentified ranking/rating. He's "overrated" based on what rating? The best the ESPN contributors gave was that he's overpaid, but salary doesn't seem to be their criteria anywhere else. Against what rating/criteria, besides salary, are they saying he's "overrated? For that matter, against what rating is anyone else judging him to be overrated or not?

[Superjudge]

I like over all effectiveness. Like, if the guy is on the floor at the YMCA, does his team play all afternoon? Yes Does he jack up a lot of shots? Yes. But he wins? Yes.

Then he's good.

[Letter N]

In this thread

[Xixak]

In my opinion, the most overrated players by position right now are:

PG: Kyrie Irving (let me know when he can make his teammates better, increase his ast/to ratio to over 2 so it's at least acceptabl e for a PG and play passable defense).

SG: Kobe Bryant (only by Lakers fans though, everyone else understands that this guy is nowhere near being the GOAT and that even if he won 7 titles he would not be ahead of MJ. He also hasn't played D since 2010.)

SF: Paul George (explained this earlier)

PF: Serge Ibaka (I'm so tired of people saying he's an elite defender. Defense is not all about blocks. He does a mediocre job defending the post, isolations and pick and rolls. He's a mediocre rebounder (terrible if you consider the physical tools he has) and a solid but not great scorer.

C: Marc Gasol (people act like this guy is the best center in the league and I have no idea why. He won DPOY when he's not even the best defender or even 2nd best defender on his team. He's a very inefficient scorer for a bigman and doesn't rebound well. Yet somehow he has this tag as an amazing center.)


The most underrated by position imo are:

PG: John Wall (idk how the hell people are saying this guy isn't worth the max. He reminds me so much of Kidd it's scary. Excellent size for the position (built like young D-Wade), probably the best end to end dribbler in basketball, elite defender, rebounds well, very good passer and playmaker, gets to the FT Line at a high rate and his presence actually results in more wins for his team (unlike Kyrie). Only real knock on the NBA's Dougie King is that he can't shoot that well. But when he got healthy towards the end of last year he averaged 21-8-5 while shooting 45-34-81 and getting to the line 7 times a game (top 8 in the NBA).

SG: Dwyane Wade With the exception of Heat fans, people keep saying this guy is done and that he's not a star anymore. Last time I checked being able to get to the rim at will and putting up 21-5-5 on 52% shooting as a TWO GUARD and a second option, while playing elite defense is FAR from being "done". He's still the best SG in the NBA (Harden needs to play defense before he can get that title).

SF: Paul Pierce Hardly even gets mentioned in top SF conversations nowadays, but he was better than both Gay and George last season.

PF: Josh Smith Explained this earlier like George.

C: Dwight Howard The number of people suggesting the Lakers were better w/o Dwight and that they wouldn't want him on their team makes me sick. At the end of the day there is only one other guy in the league who influences the game more on both ends. LeBron James

[Superjudge]

In my opinion, the most overrated players by position right now are:

PG: Kyrie Irving (let me know when he can make his teammates better, increase his ast/to ratio to over 2 so it's at least acceptabl e for a PG and play passable defense).

SG: Kobe Bryant (only by Lakers fans though, everyone else understands that this guy is nowhere near being the GOAT and that even if he won 7 titles he would not be ahead of MJ. He also hasn't played D since 2010.)

SF: Paul George (explained this earlier)

PF: Serge Ibaka (I'm so tired of people saying he's an elite defender. Defense is not all about blocks. He does a mediocre job defending the post, isolations and pick and rolls. He's a mediocre rebounder (terrible if you consider the physical tools he has) and a solid but not great scorer.

C: Marc Gasol (people act like this guy is the best center in the league and I have no idea why. He won DPOY when he's not even the best defender or even 2nd best defender on his team. He's a very inefficient scorer for a bigman and doesn't rebound well. Yet somehow he has this tag as an amazing center.)

Pretty much posted AT LEAST a conference finals starting five here. Over rated indeed. hahahaha

[Xixak]

Pretty much posted AT LEAST a conference finals starting five here. Over rated indeed. hahahaha

I'm not sure how it's relevant that they'd make the CF if they were all on the same team... no shit they would, but they're not on the same team. And we're talking about their public perception here.

They're not bad players, they're all stars (except Ibaka). My issue is that people think they're better than they are. Kyrie has already been declared the future top PG in the NBA when he doesn't play a lick of defense and is a piss-poor playmaker so far as an NBA player. Kobe as I said is only overrated by Lakers fans who actually think he's the GOAT or #2 player of all time. Paul George is overrated because of all the superstar talk. He's not even close to deserving that label. Ibaka is overrated because he's consistently called an elite defender and in the DPOY conversation even though he doesn't do much well on D besides block shots (he's a great weakside defender but mediocre at best 1 on 1). Gasol won DPOY when he isn't even close to being the best defender in the league or even on his own team.