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  • Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    Two undeniable facts that points to DD's IMMINENT move:

    1. Ross and Fields ain't going away any time soon.
    2. The duplication of style with Gay's game.
    1. Why do you say that? If BC's willing to trade Demar, someone he pursued strongly, he'd have to be willing to deal anybody. Ross and Fields could be no safer, and I don't think trading Demar before seeing what progress Ross makes in the summer is a very good idea.
    2. The duplication of style with Gay's game is also not a great reason. THey have played together half a season. There's no guarantee going out to get Millsap (the popular choice) with Demar will make the team much better in the immediate or long-term future. I agree the duplication of style is a reason for his eventual trading, but imminent? That would still be hasty to me. Duplication is not a problem that needs to be quickly solved, and is exactly the kind of thing that's good to deal with patiently, waiting to see what the biggest holes are before trading away redundant assets.

    Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
    Exactly. Colangelo has to AT LEAST entertain offers
    I didn't say he shouldn't entertain offers, but I doubt he gets the kind of offer that I would feel good about. Again, I used Millsap of an example of a deal I don't like. IT makes the team a bit better in the short term, is mostly a lateral move talent-wise, might have little to no long-term value.

    I think throwing young assets around trying to build a better mediocre playoff team around Gay is really, really stupid and shortsighted. Gay is not the future of this team, nor the piece they should build their roster and style around. JV is the future of this team, and while Gay may be worth keeping long-term, pieces brought in need to be put in place with a mind to how they'll blend with JV, first and foremost (including Gay when it comes to considering his extension, which they should not get done this summer).

    Even in the case of a PF, I wouldn't rush to trade Demar for Millsap, who I don't think is actually a fantastic fit next to JV. I think the best PFs to have next to JV will be stretch 4s and long quick defensive F/Cs (or a guy who's both). So I would rather hang onto Demar until one of those becomes available. Millsap addresses the need for a postup player now, for those who can't wait 2-3 years for when JV will be a better post player than Millsap anyway. He's not an ideal stretch 4, and not someone you get for his D.

    Again, Demar could easily be the most valuable asset the team has to build a package around, so I'd much rather they chase the right player(s) for the long-term. For such a deal to happen this summer, the player coming back would have to be a real no-brainer, more so than Millsap. That probably means just patching up the current roster going into next season, and re-evaluating things before making a deal involving Demar (or Ross for similar reasons). That way they can see what truly needs to be addressed...Do they need a big to strengthen a hole up front next to JV/Amir? Do they need to get a PG who can actually run the pick n roll with our bigs?
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Fri Mar 29, 2013, 06:01 PM.

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    • You know before we landed Gay I always thought the team would eventually move to DeRozan playing the 3 and letting Ross start beside Lowry in the backcourt.... last off season I thought that was the goal. BC getting Gay was great and all but im having trouble seeing the overall vision of what the team is and the franchise pieces besides JV moving forward literally anything can happen...

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      • Substitute Kyle Lowry for Jose Calderon and I promise you see immediate improvement in the general flow of the offense as well as an increased emphasis on getting the ball to Amir and Jonas on the pick and roll. Maybe our wings would actually get decent passes coming off of screens for once.

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        • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
          1. Why do you say that? If BC's willing to trade Demar, someone he pursued strongly, he'd have to be willing to deal anybody. Ross and Fields could be no safer, and I don't think trading Demar before seeing what progress Ross makes in the summer is a very good idea.
          2. The duplication of style with Gay's game is also not a great reason. THey have played together half a season. There's no guarantee going out to get Millsap (the popular choice) with Demar will make the team much better in the immediate or long-term future. I agree the duplication of style is a reason for his eventual trading, but imminent? That would still be hasty to me. Duplication is not a problem that needs to be quickly solved, and is exactly the kind of thing that's good to deal with patiently, waiting to see what the biggest holes are before trading away redundant assets.



          I didn't say he shouldn't entertain offers, but I doubt he gets the kind of offer that I would feel good about. Again, I used Millsap of an example of a deal I don't like. IT makes the team a bit better in the short term, is mostly a lateral move talent-wise, might have little to no long-term value.

          I think throwing young assets around trying to build a better mediocre playoff team around Gay is really, really stupid and shortsighted. Gay is not the future of this team, nor the piece they should build their roster and style around. JV is the future of this team, and while Gay may be worth keeping long-term, pieces brought in need to be put in place with a mind to how they'll blend with JV, first and foremost (including Gay when it comes to considering his extension, which they should not get done this summer).

          Even in the case of a PF, I wouldn't rush to trade Demar for Millsap, who I don't think is actually a fantastic fit next to JV. I think the best PFs to have next to JV will be stretch 4s and long quick defensive F/Cs (or a guy who's both). So I would rather hang onto Demar until one of those becomes available. Millsap addresses the need for a postup player now, for those who can't wait 2-3 years for when JV will be a better post player than Millsap anyway. He's not an ideal stretch 4, and not someone you get for his D.

          Again, Demar could easily be the most valuable asset the team has to build a package around, so I'd much rather they chase the right player(s) for the long-term. For such a deal to happen this summer, the player coming back would have to be a real no-brainer, more so than Millsap. That probably means just patching up the current roster going into next season, and re-evaluating things before making a deal involving Demar (or Ross for similar reasons). That way they can see what truly needs to be addressed...Do they need a big to strengthen a hole up front next to JV/Amir? Do they need to get a PG who can actually run the pick n roll with our bigs?
          Good points. but the way i see it, demar is still a pretty inefficient sg (stats don't lie) that cant make the 3 ball. Plus he is overpaid (But i guess all Raptors are). I just don't think it would hurt the team to get rid of him. And since they are spending tons of money either way, they may as well go for more wins, which is more likely with a Millsap type player than Demar on the wing, IMO. Pretty solid core to move forward with too, Lowry Gay Millsap JV Amir Fields Ross.


          EDIT: I guess i didn't really address your final point on a Demar trade. I think Millsap is likely the best option moving forward. He's a very good PF, and it is hard to get a hold of one that good
          Last edited by wallz; Fri Mar 29, 2013, 07:12 PM.

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          • Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
            Cap means nothing if the team is losing we can never sign meaningful free agents, we had cap and we couldnt do anything with it. You have to have a direction to use Cap and an attractive history. Trading DeRozan for something short term like Gasol would have us starting back at rebuilding again soon especially if Gay doesnt stay.

            Have to use precaution, DeRozan is up in the air for what you want to do with him but you dont want to let him go for something you arent going to be using for long or something uncertain.
            I think that is the direction I want the team to take instead of selling fans false hope that we are contenders with Rudy Gay, DeMar DeRozan & Kyle Lowry. I've been disappointed with this team & I'd rather them blow it up for the purpose of doing what it takes for your future franchise center to develop.

            People are forgetting that Gasol was a big part of the Lakers recent championship runs. He's probably regressed a few notches from his championship form, but you can't take away the fact that he knows how to play in the post. His experience and his skills can go a long way in developing Jonas. You can't just claim that he is washed up because he is being asked to play in the perimeter for the Lakers. He's a low post threat who can pass exceptionally well for a big man. These are things I want JV to pick up on.

            I understand the DeRozan hype but I'm just not sold on him amounting to anything more than a steady scorer who is limited defensively because of poor lateral quickness. I'm not denying that he is a good offensive talent, but with Rudy Gay in the fold, you may not want a secondary option who doesn't offer much else on the table.

            I'm advocating for a team with proper balance, inside and out, defense and offense. We have too many deficient players who have the same mind set which will only lead to the L's piling up year in and year out.
            “I don’t create controversies. They’re there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.”

            -- Charles Barkley

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            • Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
              Good points. but the way i see it, demar is still a pretty inefficient sg (stats don't lie) that cant make the 3 ball. Plus he is overpaid (But i guess all Raptors are). I just don't think it would hurt the team to get rid of him. And since they are spending tons of money either way, they may as well go for more wins, which is more likely with a Millsap type player than Demar on the wing, IMO. Pretty solid core to move forward with too, Lowry Gay Millsap JV Amir Fields Ross.


              EDIT: I guess i didn't really address your final point on a Demar trade. I think Millsap is likely the best option moving forward. He's a very good PF, and the time is now to make a deal with Gay and Lowry in their primes
              No, they may as well not go for more wins. THey may as well keep building the team in a way that leads to the best possible outcome of winning a championship...oh wait, they've barely started doing that. THe only reason I can even think of it is because they drafted JV.

              Spending unwisely for more wins has been the problem with the Raptors since their Carter days. It was only slightly more justifiable in Grunwald's days. Now it is totally unacceptable. Spending more money to put a 45-50 win team on the court for 2-3 years with no plan to make the team better beyond that is crappy team building. I would rather win 40-45 wins and maintain as many options to make a significant jump to a 50 or 55+ win team within 3 or 4 years instead of at that time struggling badly to keep a 45-50 win team from falling apart and getting worse, or having to rebuild again.

              You would be building the team around 3 guys who have never made an all-star game and pretending that's a competitive core. Lowry has done nothing to convince me he's worth keeping. Gay is certainly a good SF, but if he's the best player on the team, how good is the team? And Millsap is a solid PF, but again, he is not spectacular in any way. He is a good post player and rebounder, but isn't elite in either way, nor is he someone you can play as a shooter. He can shoot, but you wouldn't just use him as a stretch PF, it's not his game. You would be building a team that would be lucky to make it out of the first round for however long they're together, where any improvement would still depend on JV's development. And if that's the case, the focus from now should be on having the team built around JV, instead of having to change trajectories in 3-4 years. And the more they build the team for winning now (or rather for the next 2-3 years), the harder that becomes.
              Last edited by white men can't jump; Fri Mar 29, 2013, 07:26 PM.

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              • The Raptors are a luxury tax team either way, so the money is being spent regardless. How is spending on Millsap instead of Demar going to kill the raptors chances at getting better down the road? He will be just as tradeable as Demar and is arguably more valuable

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                • Raptor_11 wrote: View Post
                  The Raptors are a luxury tax team either way, so the money is being spent regardless. How is spending on Millsap instead of Demar going to kill the raptors chances at getting better down the road? He will be just as tradeable as Demar and is arguably more valuable
                  Because Demar still has potential to improve. Millsap will be 28 when next season starts. His value will only go down from now on. For the next 2-3 years, you can still sell potential with Demar, and he frankly plays a much weaker position in the league these days. If he learns to shoot even just from the corners, he'll be a very valuable player, possibly even worth keeping.

                  Millsap, a PF who isn't a strong defender and relies on athleticism, is not going to increase in value, that's for sure. If Demar can get you Millsap now, there's no reason to think he can't be part of a package to get a better player, possibly even this summer (though I doubt it). I'm sure Utah would do that deal. THey lose a player they don't plan on keeping anyway(who they could lose for nothing) and gain a type of player they really need at a very weak position for them... I'm sure no other team will offer them as good a deal, because it would be a pretty poor move.

                  I really think Demar is the most likely player to be traded to improve this team, I just seem to differ in opinion with a lot of people as to how and when to do that.

                  *Put it this way, the centrepiece of the Gay trade was Ed Davis (because it's who Memphis wanted), and Jose was the facilitating piece as an expiring contract. Millsap will only be able to be the latter moving forward. Demar has potential to be both as a team could target him as a young piece for another 2-3 years, and he has good value as a contract to make numbers work or be a nice expiring asset down the line.
                  Last edited by white men can't jump; Fri Mar 29, 2013, 08:25 PM.

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                  • everyone needs to start tweeting who is @demarderozan? #clown
                    he called hollinger a clown at the begining of the season but it turns out hollinger was actually being generous with his prediction

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                    • He is not a clown. If someone told me that I would not achieve my goal for this year, I'd tell them, or I'd think that they were bags of dicks too.

                      DeRozan has most definitely increased his worth in the NBA and he is definitely worth the 10 million a year. I hope colangelo can get much more for him.

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                      • Wasnt DeMars fault we arent in the playoffs the team had another transition year it marks the ending of Bargs/Calderon era into something new, DeMar played his heart out he definintely gets an A- from me for the season. Heres hoping he makes the most out of the summer training with Payton and D Wade(?)

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                        • I think the real question is, who do we blame for the 4-19 run that killed the season?

                          DeMar was the only consistent player to produce at that time. 2nd to Amir Johnson.

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                          • Imo mainly Bargnani for being a double negative no offense no defense and Calderon not playing well off the bench. Klieza was also pretty bad, Rookies didnt know what they were doing yet, Kyle Lowry didnt trust his teammates yet.

                            O AND DOM FUCKING MCGUIRE........having to start because quickly Fields turned out to be hurt making him less effective.

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                            • d749 wrote: View Post
                              everyone needs to start tweeting who is @demarderozan? #clown
                              he called hollinger a clown at the begining of the season but it turns out hollinger was actually being generous with his prediction
                              possibly the worst post on this board i've read yet.

                              Comment


                              • Nice to see we have a bunch of fans who buy in to the crap this team is selling. I guess thats why toronto sports teams continue to shit the bed over the years while we continue to pay for diamonds when were being sold glass.

                                Fact is, every player on this team expected playoffs this year, and obviously by a huge margin or one of our players wouldnt feel the need to disrespect the opinion of one of the best analysts in the game for the world to see.

                                Anybody who actually believes this team simply wasnt good enough to do it is dead wrong. They were fully capable, and had the guys to get it done. But they simply didn't for a number of excuses that everyone continues to run through.

                                Some of these would include: Bargnani's regression, injuries, reffing, Lowrys play, the Rudy trade.

                                And the reason behind all of these? Poor execution. Thats all it comes down to. The freedom this team has had on offence would be unacceptable anywhere else it the league. I mean, on what other teams do we see coaches run plays where the end result is meant to be a college three without your feet set? All year we have played into the style of game the opposing team brings, thats not a winning formula. Good teams dont play YOUR game, they play theirs.

                                Bargagnis poor play was mainly due to the fact that the ball was taken out of his hands, while he was left to stand at the 3 point line as a "floor spacer". Oh, and remember, this is the guy who has always had a problem with being ingaged in the game. Tell him to go stand in the same spot for 20 seconds while some other guy throws up a bad shot and thats what you will get. Then it goes onto Lowrys poor play, partly because of his attiude, but mainly because he isnt used properly either.

                                Reffing wasnt a problem, we didn't earn those calls and have done nothing to deserve them with the game on the line. Take away a few of the garbage shots they take every game and it wouldnt come down to refs anyway.

                                Didn't we once say that this teams main strength was going to be depth? yeah.

                                We wouldn't even have Rudy if we did't shit the bed.



                                And Demar, certainly not worth 10 million, who pays a shooting guard that kind of money who can't shoot, dribble the ball, pass or defend. He is not what I would call a winning player. And hes fallen in love with his jumper. THE SAME JUMPER THAT IS ONLY GOOD FROM MIDRANGE. (Don't be fooled by his high usage rate) The guy we have been giving the ball to on offense likes to take some of the worst shots in the game and we expect to win like that. Though I will admit Demar has improved, I'm not sure its a good thing because its just taking him further from asfknlnnldsvfvDSFGVERVEVEEVEV IM BORED WHY AM I WRITTING THIS ABOUT OUR SHITTY TEAM TO A BUNCH OF CLOWNS THIS IS A WASTE OF TIME GOODBYE. YOU'RE STUPID

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