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  • #31
    yertu damkule wrote: View Post
    fear not, arse...according to some, all of these teams are either fatally flawed or about to be put to pasture, or both, or something, or nothing.
    just like the deathstar.

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    • #32
      Apollo wrote: View Post
      How?
      bc players want to be a part of the legacy.

      Comment


      • #33
        I'm with the original poster. It looks grim for the raps for far longer than 3 years.

        DD might turn into a consistent scorer and davis into a respectable starting 4, or it might turn out that they are just standout players on a poor team.
        Bargs is a talent and an albatross.
        Jose is 30. Who replaces him in 3 years? A draft pick? How long does it take a young pg to figure the NBA out? Please don't mention Bayless.

        And even if we pulled a VC from the upcoming (weak) draft it would take at least 3 years to get him to the point where he's winning games for us. This might make us a .500 team, except for our very tough division.

        Plus we have BC at the helm - a guy who buys his 'pieces' at Costco.

        How do you extract optimism from this situation? Because we have cap space? Because some of our players are improving? We've been a lousy team for most of our history, yet I see the Leaf refrain of 'maybe next year' repeated here endlessly.

        Boston is going to be competitive, if not elite, for the next 3 years. NY has two top-10 players. Championships have been won with that formula. NJ is going to draft just before or after us and already have more talent. Philly? Meh, I'm not so sure about that team long-term, but they are better than us in the short-to-mid term.

        And remember folks, these teams don't have to win championships or even go far in the playoffs. They merely have to beat us.

        I love the Raptors, but purple-coloured glasses just give me a headache.

        Comment


        • #34
          Copywryter wrote: View Post
          I'm with the original poster. It looks grim for the raps for far longer than 3 years.

          DD might turn into a consistent scorer and davis into a respectable starting 4, or it might turn out that they are just standout players on a poor team.
          Bargs is a talent and an albatross.
          Jose is 30. Who replaces him in 3 years? A draft pick? How long does it take a young pg to figure the NBA out? Please don't mention Bayless.

          And even if we pulled a VC from the upcoming (weak) draft it would take at least 3 years to get him to the point where he's winning games for us. This might make us a .500 team, except for our very tough division.

          Plus we have BC at the helm - a guy who buys his 'pieces' at Costco.

          How do you extract optimism from this situation? Because we have cap space? Because some of our players are improving? We've been a lousy team for most of our history, yet I see the Leaf refrain of 'maybe next year' repeated here endlessly.

          Boston is going to be competitive, if not elite, for the next 3 years. NY has two top-10 players. Championships have been won with that formula. NJ is going to draft just before or after us and already have more talent. Philly? Meh, I'm not so sure about that team long-term, but they are better than us in the short-to-mid term.

          And remember folks, these teams don't have to win championships or even go far in the playoffs. They merely have to beat us.

          I love the Raptors, but purple-coloured glasses just give me a headache.
          HEY! i will NOT have you come on here & besmirch Costco!
          TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

          Comment


          • #35
            Arsenalist wrote: View Post
            C**tics - Garnett, Allen, Pierce
            Knicks - Amare, 'Melo
            Nets - Lopez, DWill
            Philly - Iggy, Jrue, Brand, Turner, Williams
            Raptors - DeRozan, Bargnani


            Nets aren't done yet either, those are easily four playoff teams, add to it the Bulls, Heat, Magic and then you have every other team fighting for one playoff spot. It doesn't look good.
            If we are discussing the here and now, valid points above.

            If we are discussing the future, as in 2 seasons time, I disagree with the above.

            BOS - on last legs if not dismantled.

            NYK - a lot of pieces to add to become more than a 1st/2nd round team. Same issue there as Toronto currently faces - adding defensive pieces as scoring is not a problem.

            NJ - Williams lustre certainly has faded of late. No doubt the talent is one of the best at PG in the league. Lopez is averaging under 6 rebs per game. They have 7M tied up in Outlaw - worse than Calderon, IMO, as Calderon does actually produce. Few draft picks remaining, little young talent, a star-PG who may very well leave after next season.

            PHI - Brand is below his career averages and 32 in less than a month with $35M owed over the next 2 seasons, Williams is a solid back up PG paid 5M per season, AI is not worth his contract and it only gets worse, Turner is a 22 year old rookie who is struggling but will most likely improve, Young is a free agent this year and they have $54M tied up in their team already for next year. My opinion is they are right where they are going to be.

            As for TOR, they have 2 players who are looking like legit 20ppg scorers. They have 2 PF's who look able to put up a double/double on a nightly basis. They have young players who might not be stars, all-stars, or even starters but they have talent as the team is quickly filling up with recent first round picks. They have a high draft pick coming (which is going to be extremely crucial for the near future) and some cap space. Even Chuck agreed that TOR has a bright future and BC has done some good things up there of late - notwithstanding the last 2 years.

            Those who continue to rightfully go on about defense, look at the acquisitions of late - there is a continuing trend of trying to find athletic players who have shown ability on the defensive end.

            This is not meant to be a pro-BC post or a purple-colored glasses response, the reality is for a team that just started a significant rebuild, progress is being made (salaries moved out, young players/reclaimation projects brought in, high draft pick coming, cap space available). Losing the commitment of Calderon/Barbosa for next season (and season after for Calderon) and adding another draft pick would certainly give me more confidence. Hopefully the Raps have a busy draft day and people see the forest through the trees.

            Comment


            • #36
              Arsenalist wrote: View Post
              C**tics - Garnett, Allen, Pierce
              Knicks - Amare, 'Melo
              Nets - Lopez, DWill
              Philly - Iggy, Jrue, Brand, Turner, Williams
              Raptors - DeRozan, Bargnani


              Nets aren't done yet either, those are easily four playoff teams, add to it the Bulls, Heat, Magic and then you have every other team fighting for one playoff spot. It doesn't look good.
              Thank you Arsenalist for being realistic - I don't think we will be out of the basement of the suddenly strong from laughable Atlantic Division any time soon just my 2 cents. BC even getting that extension makes us being in the basement a done deal imo.

              Comment


              • #37
                Arsenalist wrote: View Post
                C**tics - Garnett, Allen, Pierce
                Knicks - Amare, 'Melo
                Nets - Lopez, DWill
                Philly - Iggy, Jrue, Brand, Turner, Williams
                Raptors - DeRozan, Bargnani


                Nets aren't done yet either, those are easily four playoff teams, add to it the Bulls, Heat, Magic and then you have every other team fighting for one playoff spot. It doesn't look good.
                Add to that the Coaches and all the above teams have advantage over us in terms of who is Coaching them.

                With the unfocused GM style of BC and the type of long term contracts that he gives out to a barely role players in this league, the future is NOT LOOKING too bright.

                I think it will be atleast another 4-5 years ( with the current GM and Coach) that we will make the play off.

                Comment


                • #38
                  mattscottnelson wrote: View Post
                  bc players want to be a part of the legacy.
                  Where were these players for virtually two decades between the Larry Bird era and the KG/Pierce/Allen/Rondo era? Players want to play there now because the team is loaded with stars. When those stars leave the appeal will again leave. How are they going to get the players if they have no trade assets and a hard cap(no MLE)? Last time around they got them through prospects they collected over years of being pathetic. All I'm saying is that they for sure are going to take a step back soon. A big step back. After Larry Bird left they took nearly a couple decades to get back to the elite level.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Arsenalist wrote: View Post
                    C**tics - Garnett, Allen, Pierce
                    Knicks - Amare, 'Melo
                    Nets - Lopez, DWill
                    Philly - Iggy, Jrue, Brand, Turner, Williams
                    Raptors - DeRozan, Bargnani


                    Nets aren't done yet either, those are easily four playoff teams, add to it the Bulls, Heat, Magic and then you have every other team fighting for one playoff spot. It doesn't look good.
                    I disagree these are 'Easily Playoff teams'. DWill and Lopez is nothing. If they add some real good pieces, then maybe, but not right now. Lopez is softer than a stick of butter thats been left out for an hour. Used to be very high on him. Not anymore.

                    And Philly has not shown, in my opinion, the ability to be 'Easily' a playoff team. They are SO inconsistent and have not proven to be any better than the Raps+ a good pick.

                    Though I do agree the East has gone from 'Least' to 'Beast'.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      If we are discussing the here and now, valid points above.

                      If we are discussing the future, as in 2 seasons time, I disagree with the above.

                      BOS - on last legs if not dismantled.

                      NYK - a lot of pieces to add to become more than a 1st/2nd round team. Same issue there as Toronto currently faces - adding defensive pieces as scoring is not a problem.

                      NJ - Williams lustre certainly has faded of late. No doubt the talent is one of the best at PG in the league. Lopez is averaging under 6 rebs per game. They have 7M tied up in Outlaw - worse than Calderon, IMO, as Calderon does actually produce. Few draft picks remaining, little young talent, a star-PG who may very well leave after next season.

                      PHI - Brand is below his career averages and 32 in less than a month with $35M owed over the next 2 seasons, Williams is a solid back up PG paid 5M per season, AI is not worth his contract and it only gets worse, Turner is a 22 year old rookie who is struggling but will most likely improve, Young is a free agent this year and they have $54M tied up in their team already for next year. My opinion is they are right where they are going to be.

                      As for TOR, they have 2 players who are looking like legit 20ppg scorers. They have 2 PF's who look able to put up a double/double on a nightly basis. They have young players who might not be stars, all-stars, or even starters but they have talent as the team is quickly filling up with recent first round picks. They have a high draft pick coming (which is going to be extremely crucial for the near future) and some cap space. Even Chuck agreed that TOR has a bright future and BC has done some good things up there of late - notwithstanding the last 2 years.

                      Those who continue to rightfully go on about defense, look at the acquisitions of late - there is a continuing trend of trying to find athletic players who have shown ability on the defensive end.

                      This is not meant to be a pro-BC post or a purple-colored glasses response, the reality is for a team that just started a significant rebuild, progress is being made (salaries moved out, young players/reclaimation projects brought in, high draft pick coming, cap space available). Losing the commitment of Calderon/Barbosa for next season (and season after for Calderon) and adding another draft pick would certainly give me more confidence. Hopefully the Raps have a busy draft day and people see the forest through the trees.
                      have you seen jrue holiday play ?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        karim_nasir wrote: View Post
                        have you seen jrue holiday play ?
                        He's not THAT amazing. He is very good. And he will be VERY good. But I think he's gotten a bit overrated by the media.
                        I love the kid, don't get me wrong, but I think people have a slightly inflated opinion of him.

                        The fact that he's 6'4" and has the ball on a string is the main reason why people are so high on him, and rightfully so. But he still has ALOT to prove in terms of consistency. Which is where his main problem lies. And until he can be consistent for 82 games, then he will never be mentioned as a great PG. Which he is not right now. Gotta remember at UCLA he was playing SG. He's still learning. Which is more a good thing than a bad thing.

                        So I guess I agree with you Karim, just adding to your point.
                        Last edited by Joey; Wed Feb 23, 2011, 07:48 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          karim_nasir wrote: View Post
                          have you seen jrue holiday play ?
                          I have. A solid young PG - he is still only 20. Of what they have, he is the most promising by far. One PG does not make a team though - especially a team with the make up and financial handcuffs the 76'ers have moving forward.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            I have. A solid young PG - he is still only 20. Of what they have, he is the most promising by far. One PG does not make a team though - especially a team with the make up and financial handcuffs the 76'ers have moving forward.
                            so in your review of the 76ers, you left him out completely... not sure why you would do that if we're talking about the future of teams in our division, and holiday is probably the biggest and best part of the 76ers future.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              karim_nasir wrote: View Post
                              so in your review of the 76ers, you left him out completely... not sure why you would do that if we're talking about the future of teams in our division, and holiday is probably the biggest and best part of the 76ers future.
                              Because I was speaking of the flaws of the team and why their future success has, in my opinion, plateaued as the team is currently constructed.

                              While Holiday is certainly an intriguing prospect with a bright future, I'm not ready to put him in the same class as Rose or Westbrook.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                Because I was speaking of the flaws of the team and why their future success has, in my opinion, plateaued as the team is currently constructed.

                                While Holiday is certainly an intriguing prospect with a bright future, I'm not ready to put him in the same class as Rose or Westbrook.
                                oh ok, it was kind of confusing cuz for toronto, you mentioned the possible 20+ppg scorers, and the 2 pf who could get double doubles, and then went on to say some other positives..

                                oh i get it... you were doing an atlantic division review, but listed all the bad things about the other teams and all the good things about the raptors...

                                very informative and fair matt.

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