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  • #46
    Matt52 wrote: View Post

    Guys get minutes who work hard and produce. Nothing wrong with healthy competition. There are enough minutes to go around: cut DD back as he clearly hits a wall every season, do not play the MP/AA's of the world, Fields is a role player - 20 mins max, cut out the 2 PG lineups.

    The Raptors have 5 young guys (ED, TR, DD, JV, QA), a young role players moving forward (LF), and 9 veterans. The Raps veterans should be 2-3 guys like JL3, Gray, AA - solid professionals, good character, min salary, hard workers - and a young veteran or two like Amir. That is it. Just because you are young doesn't make you of less character. Hard work and work ethic are traits you have or you don't - you don't need veterans to show that. You need veterans to show what it takes to survive and stay in the league.

    Rookie contracts are going to be a valuable commodity moving forward. I don't think you can have too many as Houston has showed.




    Quality of the opponents have been weak (13 under .500 in last 20 games) and 12 at home.

    Paul George is THAT much better than DD. He passes, defends, rebounds, shoots. George is also a year younger.



    The Raptors competing with any team in the league is not the problem and for the record I agree with you on that. The problem is the Raps don't have enough talent to beat any team in the league. It might be semantics on my part but for the Raptors to beat the best of the best they need to play their best game while the really good team needs to have an off night. When we start comparing the best Raptors game versus the best (insert really good team here) game, well, then the problem is evident. Do not underestimate teams playing to the level of their competition.




    What assets do the Raptors have to get these veterans via trade? There is a reason the Raps are not a great team and other teams don't want the veterans off bad teams unless they are expiring.

    What free agent is coming to Toronto at this point in time? (I am not one of those "no one will come here because it is Canada" btw). Steve Nash wouldn't even sign at this time because it is all about perceived chance to win and money (not in that order).

    What cap space do the Raptors have at this time? As of now they have $58M on the books for next season and likely around $52M when options and amnesty factored in.


    The final bold sentence is the problem. If it fails - and it likely will based on current path - it is another forced rebuild and wasted opportunity for acquiring more talent via draft/trade/free agency while TR and JV and anyone coming after are still on rookie deals. Now is not the time to start looking to win, 2 more seasons, 3 more drafts (13,14,15), do the rebuild RIGHT.

    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Colangelo has been doing the same thing over and over for years and the results are not changing.
    I still don't think you are going to have enough minutes to see what the guys are going to do, but hey, maybe it will work.

    I like Paul George, but he is not an elite talent. He is an all star, but I'm not sure that he is the kind of guy you build around as your number one option.

    As far as acquiring talent, you've got Andrea and at least one borderline all star point guard to move. If you can't turn that into a few good players, or even some prospects like you suggest, you aren't GMing right.

    I would rather see what BC can do building a contender than rebuilding. He was once known for his wheeling and dealing, and I would much rather see him try do make this a playoff team for two or three years with the possibility of him failing and having someone else come blow it up rather than watch him continue to spin his wheels. I will add this, I would be fine with a strategy around acquiring more picks if someone new was the one in charge. In my mind BC played his hand by trading this years pick for Lowry and it's time for him to try to win or let someone else rebuild proper.
    "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

    -Churchill

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    • #47
      hateslosing wrote: View Post
      I would rather see what BC can do building a contender than rebuilding. He was once known for his wheeling and dealing, and I would much rather see him try do make this a playoff team for two or three years with the possibility of him failing and having someone else come blow it up rather than watch him continue to spin his wheels. I will add this, I would be fine with a strategy around acquiring more picks if someone new was the one in charge. In my mind BC played his hand by trading this years pick for Lowry and it's time for him to try to win or let someone else rebuild proper.
      What do you think he's been trying to do? Certainly not rebuilding. I haven't seen it. He's been telling everyone that he wants to rebuild but secretly trying to build a contender and failing miserably. Did any of the moves we saw this offseason look to you like rebuilding moves?
      your pal,
      ebrian

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      • #48
        hateslosing wrote: View Post
        I would rather see what BC can do building a contender than rebuilding. He was once known for his wheeling and dealing, and I would much rather see him try do make this a playoff team for two or three years with the possibility of him failing and having someone else come blow it up rather than watch him continue to spin his wheels. I will add this, I would be fine with a strategy around acquiring more picks if someone new was the one in charge. In my mind BC played his hand by trading this years pick for Lowry and it's time for him to try to win or let someone else rebuild proper.
        I think Colangelo is doing (trying to do ) that now. I guess in a couple of weeks we will know.If he makes a trade to acquire a player who can help us win now - great. And if we actually make the playoffs or some noise in the playoffs - even better. We don't have a pick anyway. But if he brings a bad player or a player who doesn't really help this team he must be let go.

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        • #49
          hateslosing wrote: View Post
          Paul George, while an all-star, is not that much better than Derozan and is hardly a super elite guy
          Wowzers. Paul George is a million times better than DeRozan in every facet of the game. And he's well on his way to becoming an elite guy.

          A classic case of overvaluing the hometown heroes.

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          • #50
            This team plus veterans does nothing to help us.

            You need elite young talent (like Carter and McGrady) before you even entertain the idea of rounding out the roster with vets.

            The "rebuilding" needs to continue until elite level talent is obtained (whether via trade, draft or free agency). Constructing a roster before that is just spinning wheels....something this franchise has been doing for 9 years.

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            • #51
              Nilanka wrote: View Post
              This team plus veterans does nothing to help us.

              You need elite young talent (like Carter and McGrady) before you even entertain the idea of rounding out the roster with vets.

              The "rebuilding" needs to continue until elite level talent is obtained (whether via trade, draft or free agency). Constructing a roster before that is just spinning wheels....something this franchise has been doing for 9 years.
              I agree, except for the "needs to continue" part because I don't think it has even started. When will we actually start rebuilding? That's what I want to know. I think we should start right away but you look at the moves we've done this past year, after reading some of the posts of what we should be doing as a rebuilding team.. we haven't done any of that. I see no evidence of rebuilding. Do you?
              your pal,
              ebrian

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              • #52
                ebrian wrote: View Post
                I agree, except for the "needs to continue" part because I don't think it has even started. When will we actually start rebuilding? That's what I want to know. I think we should start right away but you look at the moves we've done this past year, after reading some of the posts of what we should be doing as a rebuilding team.. we haven't done any of that. I see no evidence of rebuilding. Do you?
                Last year, I would've said "yes, we're definitely rebuilding". Acquiring Jonas and Ross were good indicators of that.

                But chasing Nash, gambling on Fields, keeping Bargnani, etc. screams Colangelo had no intentions of properly rebuilding.

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                • #53
                  hateslosing wrote: View Post
                  I would rather see what BC can do building a contender than rebuilding. He was once known for his wheeling and dealing, and I would much rather see him try do make this a playoff team for two or three years with the possibility of him failing and having someone else come blow it up rather than watch him continue to spin his wheels. I will add this, I would be fine with a strategy around acquiring more picks if someone new was the one in charge. In my mind BC played his hand by trading this years pick for Lowry and it's time for him to try to win or let someone else rebuild proper.
                  You saw BC try to build a contender. That was called 2006-2010. It was a total disaster that included two early first round playoff exits and one season above .500. And remember, BC started with: an all-star PF who is one of the most efficient big men in the history of the NBA, a #1 overall pick, and cap space.

                  Currently, he has: no all-stars, no first round pick and no cap space.

                  What more do you need to see?

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                  • #54
                    footarez wrote: View Post
                    I think Colangelo is doing (trying to do ) that now. I guess in a couple of weeks we will know.If he makes a trade to acquire a player who can help us win now - great. And if we actually make the playoffs or some noise in the playoffs - even better. We don't have a pick anyway. But if he brings a bad player or a player who doesn't really help this team he must be let go.
                    Agreed.

                    Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    Wowzers. Paul George is a million times better than DeRozan in every facet of the game. And he's well on his way to becoming an elite guy.

                    A classic case of overvaluing the hometown heroes.
                    You could be right, I've only seen George play a handful of times. Still, he shoots a lower percentage than Demar and turns the ball over almost 3 times a game. He's probably a much better defender and rebounder, plus he shoots the 3 better, which are probably more important than the offens anyway. Maybe he is going to be a superstar but he strikes as more of a borderline guy, call him a rich man's DD.

                    ebrian wrote: View Post
                    What do you think he's been trying to do? Certainly not rebuilding. I haven't seen it. He's been telling everyone that he wants to rebuild but secretly trying to build a contender and failing miserably. Did any of the moves we saw this offseason look to you like rebuilding moves?

                    slaw wrote: View Post
                    You saw BC try to build a contender. That was called 2006-2010. It was a total disaster that included two early first round playoff exits and one season above .500. And remember, BC started with: an all-star PF who is one of the most efficient big men in the history of the NBA, a #1 overall pick, and cap space.

                    Currently, he has: no all-stars, no first round pick and no cap space.

                    What more do you need to see?
                    I don't need to see anymore. He's trying to build around Bargs and I think he should try and finish what he started then get out of town. I think I didn't communicate my thought clearly: I don't want BC building this team from scratch again. He's failed twice. I want him to either pull out a miracle or have someone else come in and blow it up. Having BC build from scratch or around some new all star is a bad plan. The best solution is to fire BC and bring someone in immediately but I don't think that's going to happen.
                    "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                    -Churchill

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Nilanka wrote: View Post
                      Wowzers. Paul George is a million times better than DeRozan in every facet of the game. And he's well on his way to becoming an elite guy.

                      A classic case of overvaluing the hometown heroes.
                      ^^^

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