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Is Derozan contract that bad?

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  • Looking at Derozans 4-Year, $38M deal, it seems pretty much in line with Taj Gibsons 4-Year, $38M deal, and Jrue Holidays possible $46M over 4-Years.

    Yes this may be slightly more than he is worth RIGHT NOW, but we're not paying him $9.5M right now.
    We'll be paying him that next year. So lets wait and see before we start saying he's overpaid. Right now, he's paid just fine.

    I'm fine with the deal. Big fan of Derozan. No he's not perfect, but I believe he's aware of his imperfections and will continue to work to improve upon them.

    Comment


    • Hugmenot wrote: View Post
      And I was scared BryCo would give DeMar a 4 year $30M extension... What was I thinking?

      I don't understand why BryCo did not pursue Nicolas Batum much, much harder this past Summerr. I would much prefer Nicolas Batum at $14M per year plus a $2M a year scrub than the contracts he gave to Fields and DeRozan. Batum is a very good player with a realistic chance at becoming a star.

      Seriously.
      + Infinity

      Comment


      • joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
        Looking at Derozans 4-Year, $38M deal, it seems pretty much in line with Taj Gibsons 4-Year, $38M deal, and Jrue Holidays possible $46M over 4-Years.

        Yes this may be slightly more than he is worth RIGHT NOW, but we're not paying him $9.5M right now.
        We'll be paying him that next year. So lets wait and see before we start saying he's overpaid. Right now, he's paid just fine.

        I'm fine with the deal. Big fan of Derozan. No he's not perfect, but I believe he's aware of his imperfections and will continue to work to improve upon them.
        Taj Gibson is a very good defender and can rebound some in addition to being a somewhat efficient scorer. There is also the question that there is a prenium on big men.

        Jrue Holiday was a better player than DeRozan and yet, I would not extend him for that much money unless it's clear he will be able to handle to point guard duties. I would be OK at $9-10M a year if he is projected as a SG.

        You're right it is more than he is worth right now, Joey. I would have had no problem with extending DeMar to such a contract if he had a good 2012-13 season, and wanted him to potentially seek better offers as a RFA. I saw no reason to extend him at such money at this time as it's unclear to me DeMar will ever amount to more than a weak starter-quality player.

        I think Doug Smith - yes, the Doug Smith who seems to always side with the Raptors management - said it best:
        "I’m not entirely sure about this DeMar DeRozan contract extension, to tell you the truth.
        The four-year, $38 million deal, barely signed before a midnight deadline, is all about paying for promise rather than production, in my opinion, and that’s a dangerous idea, one that’s all too prevalent in the NBA but dangerous nonetheless."

        I just don't see any markers which indicates DeMar will likely take a big step forward.

        Comment


        • Yup, when it comes to DeMar (and basically the whole team minus Jonas and Ross), we need to stop playing this "he's got potential" game. It's put-up-or-shut-up time. We don't need any more 7 year projects. DeMar's been in the league for 3 years, has been forced plenty of minutes, and has shown extremely little improvement. Why anyone (including Colangelo) would expect any significant improvement is beyond me.

          Talent, as Jonas has showed so far, is evident from day-1. We have yet to see DeMar's talent....most likely because he has none.

          Comment


          • Hugmenot wrote: View Post
            You're right it is more than he is worth right now, Joey. I would have had no problem with extending DeMar to such a contract if he had a good 2012-13 season, and wanted him to potentially seek better offers as a RFA. I saw no reason to extend him at such money at this time as it's unclear to me DeMar will ever amount to more than a weak starter-quality player.
            Ugh. I woke up this morning hoping that Michael Jordan would have somehow scuttled this deal by now.

            I've never been a Colangelo apologist, but I've always been able to find *some* logic in even his worst decisions (Turk, O'Neal, etc.). Not this time. I don't get it, at all. I agree that it's probably market value, but as someone else noted, why pay market value for something you don't want? And I appreciate the 'locking up assets' argument, too -- it's not ever going to be a completely immovable contract, but it may now require some sweetener to soften the financial blow to any trade partner, which may not have been necessary if they had waited until the summer to deal with this.

            Really don't get it.
            Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

            Comment


            • planetmars wrote: View Post
              Something tells me that Bryan was fearing a Joe Johnson situation with DeMar. Joe left Phoenix to sign with Atlanta, and became a perennial all-star. Bryan probably fears the same with DeMar.

              If you actually look at Joe's stats in Phoenix they were not that great.. very similar to DeMar's in Toronto. Joe played a tonne of minutes, had a worse PER than DeMar and didn't do anything but try to score.
              Joe Johnson vs Demar Derozan the year before their new contracts:

              Per 15.1 vs 12.8
              ws/48 .112 vs .054
              efg% .536 vs .453
              ts% .556 vs .503
              rb% 7 vs 5.6
              ast% 13.2 vs 10.8
              stl% 1.2 vs 1.2
              to% 12.5 vs 10.5
              usg 19 vs 25

              Johnson shot .478 from three on 4 attempts a game that year

              Joe Johnson was showing year over year improvement, Demar has shown regression.
              (note: Joe Johnson also netted Boris Diaw, 2 first round picks and a trade exception - Demar is netting this team the right to pay him 10 mil dollars a year)

              The fear Demar doesn't live up to his contract > the fear of a 'Joe Johnson' situation

              Comment


              • What drives me nuts about this signing is that you could insert JL3 at the 2 and get basically the exact same thing from him as you'd be getting from DeRozan: bad defense and some scoring. Frankly given that Lucas can actually handle the ball a bit and can hit a 3, he'd probably be an upgrade (and yes I'm exaggerating, but you get the point).

                If I had any faith at all in DeRozan's ability to improve over time then I'd be fine with this deal. But I don't. And more importantly, the only way it's gonna happen is if he has the ball in his hands more so that he can make more mistakes to learn from. That's hardly compatible with a team that wants to win now.

                Comment


                • I guess the argument for BC extending now is that if DD has a monster year he would have to pay more. But the risk is way more that DD doesn't live up to his contract, especially with Ross waiting.

                  I think DD is a good kid and he's going to try but the questions is if that's going to be good enough.
                  Eh follow my TWITTER!

                  Comment


                  • Craiger wrote: View Post
                    Joe Johnson vs Demar Derozan the year before their new contracts:

                    Per 15.1 vs 12.8
                    ws/48 .112 vs .054
                    efg% .536 vs .453
                    ts% .556 vs .503
                    rb% 7 vs 5.6
                    ast% 13.2 vs 10.8
                    stl% 1.2 vs 1.2
                    to% 12.5 vs 10.5
                    usg 19 vs 25

                    Johnson shot .478 from three on 4 attempts a game that year

                    Joe Johnson was showing year over year improvement, Demar has shown regression.
                    (note: Joe Johnson also netted Boris Diaw, 2 first round picks and a trade exception - Demar is netting this team the right to pay him 10 mil dollars a year)

                    The fear Demar doesn't live up to his contract > the fear of a 'Joe Johnson' situation
                    You have to look at the first 3 years for Joe and compare then with the first 3 years with DeMar.... The 4th year for Johnson would be the current year for DeMar.. I don't have faith that he would have as a good a year, but Bryan may have and thus offered the contract extension now.

                    Here is comparing Joe's 3rd year with DeMar's 3rd year:

                    Per 13.9 vs 12.8
                    ws/48 .047 vs .054
                    efg% .462 vs .453
                    ts% .491 vs .503
                    rb% 6.6 vs 5.6
                    ast% 18.6 vs 10.8
                    stl% 1.4 vs 1.2
                    to% 12.5 vs 10.5
                    usg 21.6 vs 25

                    Joe wins by a nose, but as you can see it's fairly close.
                    Last edited by planetmars; Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:40 AM.

                    Comment


                    • There's no defending this extension, BryCo made a huge mistake with this one.

                      Waiting and seeing how DD developed this year and extending a qualifying offer would've been so much better than just offering the extension IMO. If DD breaks out this season, we'd have the right the match, and would probably do so and then he'd deserve to be paid well. Why overpay him now when he hasn't even show any tangible signs of improvement beyond being a one-dimensional scorer?

                      Comment


                      • Yes. It's laughable to me that anyone is trying to defend this. The money, the timing, paying for potential instead of performance. There's just no defence for this player getting this contract.

                        As I wrote earlier, good for Derozan. Dude hit the jackpot.

                        Comment


                        • planetmars wrote: View Post
                          You have to look at the first 3 years for Joe and compare then with the first 3 years with DeMar.... The 4th year for Johnson would be the current year for DeMar.. I don't have faith that he would have as a good a year, but Bryan may have and thus offered the contract extension now.
                          I know what your saying, but Johnson didn't get his contract after his 3rd year. Johnson only got his contract after his 2004/5 campaign.

                          But even if we assume BC is afraid Demar would have a very good year (and there is very little historical evidence with Demar to indicate this will be the case) and would have to pay more, atleast he'd know he is getting a productive player whose cost would be capped under the CBA.

                          Comment


                          • I thought Colangelo is big on advanced stats now. This signing clearly says otherwise. Even REGULAR stats show how poor a player DeRozan is :|

                            Comment


                            • It's hard to be a BC supporter this morning... the loss was tough, but I can stomach it and take many positives from it, but hearing about the DeRozan contract nearly made me physically ill. I defended BC all offseason, pointed to DeRozan being a good, young, cheap asset and raved about the financial flexibility the team had (even after the Fields signing), then BC goes and does this. Absolutely pathetic contract that he hasn't come close to earning.

                              BC's 4 most overpaid contracts (avg $ shown):
                              - DeRozan ($9.5M x 4 yrs)
                              - Amir ($6.5M x 2 yrs)
                              - Fields ($6.25M x 3 yrs)
                              - Kleiza ($4.6M x 2 yrs)

                              Last night 3 of those guys were 'under the bus' (DeRozan, Fields and Amir) and the fourth (Kleiza) had a DNP - Coach's Decision... what an efficient and effective way to spend $26.85M! That's nearly half the team's total cap space and not one of them is a legitimate starter!

                              This team seriously needs a legit starting wing that can score efficiently and consistently, while also contributing in other ways too (ie: defense, rebounding, passing). Our wings, led by DeRozan, are so far below average that it's not even funny.
                              Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Nov 1, 2012, 10:57 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Craiger wrote: View Post
                                I know what your saying, but Johnson didn't get his contract after his 3rd year. Johnson only got his contract after his 2004/5 campaign.

                                But even if we assume BC is afraid Demar would have a very good year (and there is very little historical evidence with Demar to indicate this will be the case) and would have to pay more, atleast he'd know he is getting a productive player whose cost would be capped under the CBA.
                                I am in agreement.. this is a horrible signing. The timing is completely wrong and he essentially bid against himself. This was my last straw with Bryan and I hope to God that he doesn't get an extension. I was just trying to rationalize what Bryan must have been thinking.

                                He waited for Joe to become an RFA and Atlanta snooped in and signed him to a ridiculous offer. Bryan may have learned from that 'mistake' and signed DeMar before that situation could take place again. I just don't think DeMar will ever be as good as Joe was in his 4th year. He has to prove me wrong now. Thanks Bryan for making it even more difficult to root for your team!

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