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  • #31
    Tim W. wrote: View Post
    I've never once read a reasonable explanation of why Bargnani is a 4 and not a 5. On defense, he plays centers better because he's better guarding the post instead of the perimeter. Faster PFs cause him problems. On offense, it's better for him to be guarded by centers because he can draw them out and use his quickness. He's never shown an ability to punish smaller players in the post, so he really wouldn't have that much advantage because of his height. And quicker PFs would be able to guard him on the perimeter much easier than a center.

    Besides, most of the time Bargnani was on the court with Bosh, he WAS often being defended by PFs because Bosh played closer to the basket. How is he going to be more productive? Really, this argument makes very little sense.
    Very smart post. While most people would seem to identify Bargnani's strengths and weaknesses well enough, these same people simply don't understand how they relate to specific matchups on the court. Bargnani's best position, as of this moment, is at Centre, for all the reasons you mentioned above.

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    • #32
      Brasky wrote: View Post
      Very smart post. While most people would seem to identify Bargnani's strengths and weaknesses well enough, these same people simply don't understand how they relate to specific matchups on the court. Bargnani's best position, as of this moment, is at Centre, for all the reasons you mentioned above.
      There is one small flaw in your&tim "smart" theory: using a Center like Andrea and a PF like CB4 makes your team a jump shooting team, with nobody able to handle the paint in either sides. When the ball falls, you are a winning team scoring in bunches; when not hot on jumpers, you are just a horrible team. The problem is, just before the playoff and during the playoff, teams are starting to tight the defense and the jump shooting teams have hard time to keep up.

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      • #33
        insight_tor wrote: View Post
        There is one small flaw in your&tim "smart" theory: using a Center like Andrea and a PF like CB4 makes your team a jump shooting team, with nobody able to handle the paint in either sides. When the ball falls, you are a winning team scoring in bunches; when not hot on jumpers, you are just a horrible team. The problem is, just before the playoff and during the playoff, teams are starting to tight the defense and the jump shooting teams have hard time to keep up.
        I think offense is the least of this team's worries. Lets fix the defense before we even start worrying about other teams shutting down the league's 5th best offense in crunch time.

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        • #34
          Brasky wrote: View Post
          I think offense is the least of this team's worries. Lets fix the defense before we even start worrying about other teams shutting down the league's 5th best offense in crunch time.
          What do you think it happened after All-Star break? Between beginning of December and All-Star break, even the defense was quite honest, after that we witness a total meltdown because we didn't had inside presence and other teams could more easily close on our shooters.

          Also, what happened a couple of times when CB4 took Raptors to playoffs? Without a either SG or SF capable to create his own shot, there is no way Raptors will have any success. Maybe DeRozan will develop in one, but is going to take time and let's hope he won't bail out, as well.
          Last edited by insight_tor; Mon Jun 14, 2010, 09:48 AM.

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          • #35
            insight_tor wrote: View Post
            What do you think it happened after All-Star break? Between beginning of December and All-Star break, even the defense was quite honest, after that we witness a total meltdown because we didn't had inside presence and other teams could more easily close on our shooters.
            What do I think happened? I think the team's strength of schedule got substantially easier. It's easy to look good when you're beating up on mostly sub .500 teams for a long stretch.

            But since when do you judge a team based on a small stretch of games anyway? The entire regular season is barely statistically significant, let alone a small handful of games. The fact is Toronto were 5th in the entire league offensively and 30th defensively. Get your priorities straight.

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            • #36
              insight_tor wrote: View Post
              There is one small flaw in your&tim "smart" theory: using a Center like Andrea and a PF like CB4 makes your team a jump shooting team, with nobody able to handle the paint in either sides. When the ball falls, you are a winning team scoring in bunches; when not hot on jumpers, you are just a horrible team. The problem is, just before the playoff and during the playoff, teams are starting to tight the defense and the jump shooting teams have hard time to keep up.
              I'm not sure what theory you're talking about. I've never, ever, ever once said that Bosh and Bargnani were a good pairing. In fact I've repeatedly said the opposite. I've often said that Bosh needs someone who is able to score inside more, and would have liked to have seen him play with Johnson more. I've also argued that when O'Neal was with the Raptors, they actually worked fairly well together, it was the rest of the team around them that failed.

              My argument is that Bargnani is more of a center, than a PF. The argument has nothing to do with who they are paired with. Bargnani obviously needs to be paired with a PF that plays inside, just as Bosh needs to be paired with a center who plays inside.
              Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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              • #37
                Brasky wrote: View Post
                What do I think happened? I think the team's strength of schedule got substantially easier. It's easy to look good when you're beating up on mostly sub .500 teams for a long stretch.

                But since when do you judge a team based on a small stretch of games anyway? The entire regular season is barely statistically significant, let alone a small handful of games. The fact is Toronto were 5th in the entire league offensively and 30th defensively. Get your priorities straight.

                You win the game if you score more points than the opponent. And please get your facts straight, Raptors beat Dallas and Lakers and few other good teams as well during that stretch which was not small. Going back to how "smart" is to play Andrea at Center, my point was that with Andrea at Center, Raptors won't be able to improve drastically the defense. Even though Raptors were fifth offensively, still they weren't even able to make the playoffs because the lack of toughness ... I think is better to have a mean Center ( i.e. Hendricks - not necessary Howard) and let Andrea play PF. I don't understand why people keeps saying Andrea can't defend PFs, even though I could see some mismatches which will give Andrea hard times, I think Andrea can stand up against most of the PFs. Andrea did a much better job against Garnett than CB4 ever did.

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                • #38
                  insight_tor wrote: View Post
                  You win the game if you score more points than the opponent. And please get your facts straight, Raptors beat Dallas and Lakers and few other good teams as well during that stretch which was not small. Going back to how "smart" is to play Andrea at Center, my point was that with Andrea at Center, Raptors won't be able to improve drastically the defense. Even though Raptors were fifth offensively, still they weren't even able to make the playoffs because the lack of toughness ... I think is better to have a mean Center ( i.e. Hendricks - not necessary Howard) and let Andrea play PF. I don't understand why people keeps saying Andrea can't defend PFs, even though I could see some mismatches which will give Andrea hard times, I think Andrea can stand up against most of the PFs. Andrea did a much better job against Garnett than CB4 ever did.
                  You're still not getting it.

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                  • #39
                    insight_tor wrote: View Post
                    You win the game if you score more points than the opponent. And please get your facts straight, Raptors beat Dallas and Lakers and few other good teams as well during that stretch which was not small. Going back to how "smart" is to play Andrea at Center, my point was that with Andrea at Center, Raptors won't be able to improve drastically the defense. Even though Raptors were fifth offensively, still they weren't even able to make the playoffs because the lack of toughness ... I think is better to have a mean Center ( i.e. Hendricks - not necessary Howard) and let Andrea play PF. I don't understand why people keeps saying Andrea can't defend PFs, even though I could see some mismatches which will give Andrea hard times, I think Andrea can stand up against most of the PFs. Andrea did a much better job against Garnett than CB4 ever did.
                    No one is debating that Bargnani needs to be paired with a great defender, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a center. There have been loads of PFs who were anchors on defense over the years. Garnett is a perfect example. Josh Smith is another one.

                    And Bargnani played Garnett better than Bosh because they are about the same height. Garnett and Bargnani are both over 7 feet. Garnett has a height advantage over almost all the other PFs, but he also has quick feet that allow him to defend on the perimeter.
                    Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                    • #40
                      Tim W. wrote: View Post
                      No one is debating that Bargnani needs to be paired with a great defender, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a center. There have been loads of PFs who were anchors on defense over the years. Garnett is a perfect example. Josh Smith is another one.

                      And Bargnani played Garnett better than Bosh because they are about the same height. Garnett and Bargnani are both over 7 feet. Garnett has a height advantage over almost all the other PFs, but he also has quick feet that allow him to defend on the perimeter.
                      Bargs plays every PF/C in the league better than Bosh. Bosh's attempt at D was pitiful at best on the other bigs in this league. Even more telling was in his post game scrums when he would throw Bargs under the bus.

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                      • #41
                        Multipaul wrote: View Post
                        Bargs plays every PF/C in the league better than Bosh. Bosh's attempt at D was pitiful at best on the other bigs in this league. Even more telling was in his post game scrums when he would throw Bargs under the bus.
                        Wow. Bargnani must not be very well endowed because you seem to be able to fit your entire body inside his jock.
                        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
                        Follow me on Twitter.

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                        • #42
                          that was rude. i think u not only do u hate bargs, but u hate the raptors and maybe even the city of toronto. u still havent disproven that all star bargnani is better than cb anyways.

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