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The * to Masai's proclamation of, "We will not be caught in no man's land."

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  • sleepz wrote: View Post
    So you are saying he meant to say "we won't be in no mans land.....3 years from now"?lol

    That would be an intentional misleading of the fans. Masai and Lieweke made it very clear during the offseason and it was meant in the here and now. 7-11 is a death bed in the NBA.

    If he did come back and say he didn't give a timeframe, I would personally feel the BC vibe creeping in again. Talking out of your mouth but ain't sayin' nuthin. Saying you want to 'contend' but really saying you are 'content'.
    Could you find a quote or story that makes it clear it was meant to be for this year?

    I've yet to come across one. It would be appreciated if you could.

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    • Craig wrote: View Post
      Heh.

      This year was a tank year. It started wit rudy getting shipped for cap space and some pine riders.

      The pone riders over archived. The Point guard actually took the managements advice and is not twice the player he ever was. The SG kept improving. Two second year players.... doing ok.

      This was NEVER gonna be a year to compete for the third spot in the east....if you think it was you're mistaken. Everything that has happened was unexpected, and it caused UM to pause, and when he paused, right after the trade, this team promptly won 5 games and took itself out of the tank.

      Nobody thought it would happen. It wasn't supposed to happen.

      Masai isn't a god, he's a good GM, and he played the odds and lost, so once that happened he had to pray for wins. So now you have a squad, that isn't even a playoff team in the west, toiling at .500, which is what we like to call "no mans land".

      I don't have an axe to grind, I like Masai a great deal, but he got effed over with this over achieving group of guys, and I think everyone knows that.

      So now, it is what it is, and unless this team shocks the world and finishes out season strong, they will be around the 14-18th draft pick, and THAT my friends is failure. Might have been uncontrollable, but it ain't winning.
      Don't say that. You're logic will be considered offensive.

      I agree with you that after the Gay move he paused and now has a .500 team that is not a contender by any stretch, probably has a limited ceiling going forward, and have very few options outside of a relatively late draft pick to improve.

      If that's not 'no mans land', what is?

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      • Matt52 wrote: View Post
        That is turning to the only consolation prize.

        Maybe when a few guys drop out of '14 and the hype turns to outright negativity, picks might be available by desperate GMs looking to appease fickle owners and impatient fans.

        The more I look through the guys projected to go 7-15 the more I like.... well, a few at least.
        Embiid, Wiggins, Exum imho all have the potential to be stars in the league.

        Those down on the draft will be back on board come June.

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        • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
          He didn't have to. MLSE did when they spent $100M on two soccer players.

          The moment the talent becomes available, Leiweke will figure out how to get it here, and MLSE will bust out the cheque book. We're in no man's land right now, but we aren't stuck. We're waiting.
          But MLS soccer is not bound by a collective bargaining agreement. I think Leiweke referred to it as still very much the Wild West, uncharted frontier or something along those lines.

          I think you are right but it will be tough to break out the cheque book after 2015-16 season. 2016-17 currently has $20M in cap holds for JV/Ross plus $9.5 for DD plus hypothetical $9M for Lowry plus possible 2014 pick, 2015 pick, possible 2 2016 firsts, then is Patterson resigned? What about Amir? Vasquez?

          This summer is a weak free agent crop and right now Raps would not have enough to offer a max anyways... and can offer nothing if they resign Lowry.

          You've got 2015 summer to work with though with enough space to sign 1 max free agent.... so there is that.


          But so much is likely to change that things are irrelevant and hardly set in stone at this point in time.

          The one constant is tying up $20M in DeRozan and Lowry does make things much more difficult due to the CBA and timing. If Masai could get what he feels is fair value for DeRozan or Lowry and if he has eyes on pulling a Toronto FC type move of his own then he should be looking to deal Lowry and DeRozan sooner than later to maximize assets returned and own Raptors assets/picks.

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          • sleepz wrote: View Post
            Embiid, Wiggins, Exum imho all have the potential to be stars in the league.

            Those down on the draft will be back on board come June.
            Compared to the earlier hype of "the top 4-5 players are likely franchise players", "have the potential to be stars" is indeed a downgrade. Not a reason to be down on the draft, but I do think 1st round picks are being slightly overvalued.
            Two beer away from being two beers away.

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            • sleepz wrote: View Post
              No, Bryan Colangelo did that. No Raptor GM is to be trusted blindly, period.
              This guy typing right here: guilty.

              Comment


              • Shrub wrote: View Post
                They are saying everybody except Embiid, actually.
                Don't get too caught up in what "they" say.

                They didn't predict MCW would look as he has or Lillard in a draft prior to that. I remember 'they' saying that Curry would have issues in the pros because he wasn't a 1 and was too short for the 2 and Harden was a stretch being selected in the top 5. "They" also said that Drummond had a low motor and wasn't coachable, etc, etc.

                Everyone has opinions but if you really look and watch some of the potential prospects in this draft and compare it to the previous 5 drafts, this has the chance to be a very good draft class.

                Comment


                • JawsGT wrote: View Post
                  What evidence is there that we are stuck in no mans land anyways? We have a young team that is better than it was last year and is improving. Does anyone actually think that this team, as is, would regress next season? I don't. All I see is upside! We have no where to go but up, and I don't see a single reason to suspect we need to plummet for ping pong balls in order to become contenders.
                  Don't know if I would see team regression being as issue as much as the Eastern Conference not being as horrible as it has been this year. A 3rd and 4th seed barely over .500? That's as bad as it gets.

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                  • Mess wrote: View Post
                    Compared to the earlier hype of "the top 4-5 players are likely franchise players", "have the potential to be stars" is indeed a downgrade. Not a reason to be down on the draft, but I do think 1st round picks are being slightly overvalued.
                    No doubt on that front. Hyped beyond actual reality........at first.

                    I feel like the media tide now has gone the other direction and are downplaying the talent based on a 1/3 of a season of college ball. Heard Bill and Jalen felt there are more Griffins and Pierces than Lebrons and Durrants in this draft. Griffin is improving and is still young to the league so the jury is still deliberating there, but what's wrong with drafting Paul Pierce? He's a HOF'er.

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                    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      Could you find a quote or story that makes it clear it was meant to be for this year?

                      I've yet to come across one. It would be appreciated if you could.
                      I'm going to go back and watch the tapes!lol

                      Seriously though if Masai was talking in semantics (which I don't think he was. Going to go back to see the question he was asked as I felt it pertained to this season), I'm not impressed.

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                      • sleepz wrote: View Post
                        Don't get too caught up in what "they" say.

                        They didn't predict MCW would look as he has or Lillard in a draft prior to that. I remember 'they' saying that Curry would have issues in the pros because he wasn't a 1 and was too short for the 2 and Harden was a stretch being selected in the top 5. "They" also said that Drummond had a low motor and wasn't coachable, etc, etc.

                        Everyone has opinions but if you really look and watch some of the potential prospects in this draft and compare it to the previous 5 drafts, this has the chance to be a very good draft class.
                        Are we talking about the same 'they'?
                        I was talking specifically about Jalen Rose and Bill Simmons, and I don't think any sane sports fan would get caught up in what they say.

                        Anyway I agree with what you're saying, it seems the trend that people are always more down on drafts than they should be. BUT, they are talking about something else. They are speaking specifically about these player's ceilings, and their ability to be transcendent athletes like Durant or LeBron - which is what many have been saying about this draft class.

                        Comment


                        • sleepz wrote: View Post
                          I'm going to go back and watch the tapes!lol

                          Seriously though if Masai was talking in semantics (which I don't think he was. Going to go back to see the question he was asked as I felt it pertained to this season), I'm not impressed.
                          Personally, I took that comment as being an over-arcing statement of change in philosophy/management principle (with permanence)....all moves going forward shall therefore be made to avoid the "rut".

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                          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            But MLS soccer is not bound by a collective bargaining agreement.
                            But it does have the insane circumstance of being run as a single company with each team being a franchise, as I learned from that Star article. Regardless, each league has its own snags, and TL seems to enjoy navigating through them.

                            Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            I think you are right but it will be tough to break out the cheque book after 2015-16 season. 2016-17 currently has $20M in cap holds for JV/Ross plus $9.5 for DD plus hypothetical $9M for Lowry plus possible 2014 pick, 2015 pick, possible 2 2016 firsts, then is Patterson resigned? What about Amir? Vasquez?
                            DeMar + Amir + 1st round picks clears the money to either trade or s/t for a max level player, while also having the asset clout to make it enticing for another team.

                            Personally, I like the sound of a deal with DeMar + Amir + 2014 first +2016 first for Kevin Love being the principles, and then leaving it to TL and MU to figure out how to get Love to re-sign. This, I think, would get us well on the way to being out of no man's land.
                            Last edited by JimiCliff; Tue Jan 28, 2014, 08:26 PM.
                            "Stop eating your sushi."
                            "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                            "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                            - Jack Armstrong

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                            • sleepz wrote: View Post
                              Why do you think that is fans want the team to build through the draft to add talent as being doom and gloom?

                              In a years time if this team is back in the lottery because they took the easy road again, what will you say? "well it was good while it lasted"

                              What's not to get? if they don't win the division they will most likely end up in the 7-11 spot which both Masai and Lieweke has indicated is no mans land.

                              Nowadays if you don't agree with the herd, you are subject to intense criticism, when really it should just be respected as a difference of opinion. I've seen this Raptor movie before and I'm not interested in a sequel.
                              1st bold: I can't answer the "why", because I don't think wanting to build through the draft is doom and gloom. The doom and gloom I speak of went much further than that simple concept. Besides, we have built what some feel is a solid core to grow/work with, via the draft already. DeMar, JV, Ross, all lottery picks, all 21-24 years old, with two only in their soph year, and Lowry (27) obtained with a 12th pick in a weak draft (Steven Adams). You think these guys aren't worth building with? Sorry you feel that way, but what makes you sure we'd get better prospects in the next few drafts and be better in 5-6 years? We already have 3 promising lottery picks that have plenty of time to grow together. I'm in favour of taking our GMs approach and seeing how these guys come together as a team, while making decisions upon opportunities only he knows about. They're looking very promising, while providing us great basketball to cheer for. I see no dark clouds over this. Why invent them?

                              2nd bold: "Because they took the easy road"? I don't see them taking any easy road, so that's a moot question.

                              3rd bold: "What's not to get?" I thought I presented a scenario that states what I don't get. What part that do you not get? I'm talking about appreciating the current reality, rather than shitting on the doom and gloom imagination future. Not "ifs" that the odds are against, but even if that happened this year, that's far from saying we're locked into "no man's land". Rome wasn't build in a day, nor will the Raptors be, whichever route is taken.

                              4th bold: I agree, though I think we differ on our opinion of who "the herd" is. I mean, shit, it appears people who want to cheer for the team have to create a distinct thread to do so, and hide from the tank herd. That's pretty sad

                              Comment


                              • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                                But it does have the insane circumstance of being run as a single company with each team being a franchise, as I learned from that Star article. Regardless, each league has its own snags, and TL seems to enjoy navigating through them .
                                I have no doubt MLSE will spend. My point is the collective bargaining agreement makes it difficult to spend big money without Bird Rights. Raptors have to get guys on their roster first, then they might have a year or two of possible big free agent signings, and hen have to start extending their own thereby eliminating free agency.

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