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  • #16
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    A minor revision is required, since the Barbosa TPE expires July 1st, when the Raptors drop below the salary cap (due to UFA contracts expiring and RFAs being renounced - goodbye Gray, Magloire, Alabi, Bayless, Weems). So, it would have to be 2 separate trades with New Orleans. The first could go through at 11:59pm on June 30th and the second could go through at 12:01am on July 1st.

    TRADE 1
    - Ariza to Toronto
    - $6.8M TPE to New Orleans

    TRADE 2
    - Okafor to Toronto
    - New Orleans' highest lottery pick (top-7 guaranteed) to Toronto
    - Amir to New Orleans
    - JJ to New Orleans
    - Forbes to New Orleans
    - one/both Toronto 2nd round picks (#38 & #56) to New Orleans

    New Orleans
    - saves $10.5M next season and a total of $19.2M over the next 3 seasons
    - given their current roster, both Johnsons could be starters next season
    - they'd still have 1 lottery pick and would be adding 2 2nd round picks

    Toronto
    - adds expensive veteran defensive-minded backups and takes on loads of salary, in return for an additional lottery pick
    - Okafor would be a great mentor for Valanciunas
    - Toronto drafts Beal and Marshall
    - Toronto could then target either Mayo or AK47 in free agency (Mayo would likely need to be a S&T), though they would be fairly close to the salary cap (MLE for AK47?) without flipping Ariza or using the amnesty

    EDIT: nevermind, it looks like it actually could go through as 1 trade, as long as it can be done prior to July 1st.
    A TPE is good for one year from the date of the trade. With Barbosa I believe he was traded on March 15, therefore TPE good until March 15, 2013.

    Comment


    • #17
      Matt52 wrote: View Post
      A TPE is good for one year from the date of the trade. With Barbosa I believe he was traded on March 15, therefore TPE good until March 15, 2013.
      Right, but won't it effectively expire July 1st, as soon as the Raptors drop below the salary cap level? I thought a TPE was only available to use when the team was above the cap. Or would it be useable again, whenever the Raptors get back above the cap, anytime up until March 15, 2013? Damn you CBA!

      Comment


      • #18
        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
        Right, but won't it effectively expire July 1st, as soon as the Raptors drop below the salary cap level? I thought a TPE was only available to use when the team was above the cap. Or would it be useable again, whenever the Raptors get back above the cap, anytime up until March 15, 2013? Damn you CBA!
        It comes down to what the plan is to add talent.

        If the Raptors go the trader route, then the TPE is in play after July 1st, their MLE, Bi-annual exceptions, and Bird Rights on Bayless and Gray. They have $10.3M of cap space to take on salary via a trade before July 1st according to http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm

        If the Raptors go free agency route, they have to make choices to renounce exceptions and cap holds such as Jerryd Bayless.

        I am expecting a significant trade prior to July 1st. Realistically, it is the best option for the Raptors in my opinion.

        Comment


        • #19
          tenforthewin wrote: View Post
          ...
          I think BC will trade A.Bargnani, we can't have two soft Euros play the PF and C position when next season roams along. I say
          ...
          More of me is always better. You know, we are going to have long stretches of games next year with Calderon, Kleiza, Bargnani and Valanciunas all playing together... hopefully we can find another Euro to round out a starting line up. Better prepare yourself...
          Last edited by Soft Euro; Tue May 1, 2012, 03:24 PM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Matt52 wrote: View Post
            Good points.

            I guess you'd have to ask if the players you add via free agency are better than what you get from Ariza and Okafor. Clearly in free agency a team is going to usually overpay and with Toronto it is a given.

            Looking at the roster this year, I think Okafor is an upgrade on Gray and Ariza is an upgrade on JJ. Also both are proven NBA players.

            Lets assume Forbes is taken out, DeRozan included, picks are swapped, and the Raps get Beal. This would be the Raptors roster:

            PG: Calderon
            SG: Beal, Forbes
            SF: Ariza, Kleiza
            PF: Bargnani, ED
            C: JV, Okafor, Magloire

            I would be happy with that.
            I'm fine with packaging in DeRozan too but I would throw in the (2) 2nd rounders as well as swap the #8 for the #10 so we end up taking 2 salaries but end up with the #4 and #10 picks. NO ends up with 3 younger & cheaper players plus (2) 2nd picks , leaving them with lots of cap space while still having quality bodies to fill the voids.

            I'm wondering if we aren't going to try to hold onto Bayless if maybe we can't get a late 1st rounder from Chicago for him in a sign and trade? Bayless & Alabi for CJ Watson and the 30th pick?

            I like the idea of trying to sign Ilyasova and we probably stand a decent chance considering he is UFA, if this was the only FA signing we needed to make then I think the salary for Okafor and Ariza is manageable for a couple of years while the young studs mature.....and again leaving us with large cap space in a couple of years.

            Draft Ideas based on above would be as follows

            #4 Bradley Beal SG
            #10 Kendall Marshall PG
            # 30 Augusto Lima (Brazil) PF


            2012-2013 Line Up

            PG Calderon / Marshall / Watson
            SG Beal / Forbes / Anderson
            SF Ilyasova / Ariza / Kleiza
            PF Bargnani / Davis / Lima (project)
            C Valanciunas / Okafor / Magloire

            I think the Raptors have to go out and spend a little money this year and if we are spending it and still stockpiling talent then why not.

            After 2013 we will have 17M in expiring contracts ( Calderon/ Forbes/Anderson/Watson/Magloire)

            After 2014 season we will have another 28M in expiring contracts (Okafor/Ariza/Kleiza)

            So I know there are a lot of IFs and ANDs but to paint a full picture you pretty much have to do that........let the shredding begin......

            Comment


            • #21
              GoHuskies wrote: View Post
              I'm fine with packaging in DeRozan too but I would throw in the (2) 2nd rounders as well as swap the #8 for the #10 so we end up taking 2 salaries but end up with the #4 and #10 picks. NO ends up with 3 younger & cheaper players plus (2) 2nd picks , leaving them with lots of cap space while still having quality bodies to fill the voids.

              I'm wondering if we aren't going to try to hold onto Bayless if maybe we can't get a late 1st rounder from Chicago for him in a sign and trade? Bayless & Alabi for CJ Watson and the 30th pick?

              I like the idea of trying to sign Ilyasova and we probably stand a decent chance considering he is UFA, if this was the only FA signing we needed to make then I think the salary for Okafor and Ariza is manageable for a couple of years while the young studs mature.....and again leaving us with large cap space in a couple of years.

              Draft Ideas based on above would be as follows

              #4 Bradley Beal SG
              #10 Kendall Marshall PG
              # 30 Augusto Lima (Brazil) PF


              2012-2013 Line Up

              PG Calderon / Marshall / Watson
              SG Beal / Forbes / Anderson
              SF Ilyasova / Ariza / Kleiza
              PF Bargnani / Davis / Lima (project)
              C Valanciunas / Okafor / Magloire

              I think the Raptors have to go out and spend a little money this year and if we are spending it and still stockpiling talent then why not.

              After 2013 we will have 17M in expiring contracts ( Calderon/ Forbes/Anderson/Watson/Magloire)

              After 2014 season we will have another 28M in expiring contracts (Okafor/Ariza/Kleiza)

              So I know there are a lot of IFs and ANDs but to paint a full picture you pretty much have to do that........let the shredding begin......
              If the Raps took on Okafor and Ariza, they would be limited to exceptions and minimum contracts in free agency. I don't think they get Ilyasova with that.

              I would be all for what you propose but I'm not sure NOH would be down with it.... but who knows?

              Comment


              • #22
                Another option would be to leave Ariza out of the trade.

                TO TORONTO
                - Okafor
                - top-7 pick

                TO NEW ORLEANS
                - Amir, JJ, Forbes
                - both 2nd round picks (#38 & #56)
                - possibly a top-3 protected future 1st round pick*
                - a $3.2M TPE would be generated, based on 2012-2013 salaries of the four players involved

                * if NO wants another 1st round pick this year, Toronto could look to purchase a mid-late 1st round pick for the typical $3M price


                New Orleans
                - saves $3.2M next season, $8M the following season and then has to pay $7M the next year for Amir's last season ($4.2M savings total)
                - still has one mid-lottery pick
                - adds 2 2nd round picks
                - adds 1 future 1st round pick (or perhaps another mid-late 1st round pick this year)
                - gets 3 rotation players; both Johnsons could be starters

                Toronto
                - gets veteran C to backup Valanciunas
                - gets additional lottery pick (to ideally draft Beal & Marshall)
                - preserves about $8M in cap space to go after Batum, Mayo or AK47
                - still has the $7M Barbosa TPE to use later (perhaps even for a pre-arranged deal with NO to trade for Ariza's salary as a "thank you")


                Toronto Lineup
                C: Valanciunas, Okafor, Magloire
                PF: Bargnani, Davis, Kleiza
                SF: DeRozan, Ariza, Kleiza
                SG: Mayo, Beal
                PG: Calderon, Marshall, Uzoh
                Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue May 1, 2012, 04:37 PM.

                Comment


                • #23
                  I don't kow if I like the idea of essentially dealing two good reserves in JJ and Amir just to get essentially a pick that's potentially 2 spots higher than where we might select- AND have an albatross on our payroll for the next 2 seasons. I know that's the popular idea floating around, but it's giving me an ulcer just worrying about it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    MangoKid wrote: View Post
                    I don't kow if I like the idea of essentially dealing two good reserves in JJ and Amir just to get essentially a pick that's potentially 2 spots higher than where we might select- AND have an albatross on our payroll for the next 2 seasons. I know that's the popular idea floating around, but it's giving me an ulcer just worrying about it.
                    I guess I look at it like this:

                    1) I average out Okafor & Beal's salaries, and think how good Beal could be long-term, knowing Okafor has value next season as a $14M expiring contract (or just letting him go for cap space just two summers from now)

                    2) Either Amir/Davis need to go, and I'd rather dump the more expensive option (which is roughly the same as the average salary of Okafor/Beal)

                    3) I personally don't like JJ and think he's overrated. The thought of being able to add a Batum/Mayo/AK47 to replace him in the starting lineup makes me giddy

                    4) Forbes is a depth player, destined to be 3rd string SG at best next season, so no big loss

                    5) 2 2nd round picks aren't that big a deal to give up, especially when your 12-man roster can be filled out with such strong talent

                    6) I really don't envision this lineup missing the Johnsons or Forbes too much:
                    Toronto Lineup
                    C: Valanciunas, Okafor, Magloire
                    PF: Bargnani, Davis, Kleiza
                    SF: DeRozan, Ariza, Kleiza
                    SG: Mayo, Beal
                    PG: Calderon, Marshall, Uzoh

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                      I guess I look at it like this:

                      1) I average out Okafor & Beal's salaries, and think how good Beal could be long-term, knowing Okafor has value next season as a $14M expiring contract (or just letting him go for cap space just two summers from now)

                      2) Either Amir/Davis need to go, and I'd rather dump the more expensive option (which is roughly the same as the average salary of Okafor/Beal)

                      3) I personally don't like JJ and think he's overrated. The thought of being able to add a Batum/Mayo/AK47 to replace him in the starting lineup makes me giddy

                      4) Forbes is a depth player, destined to be 3rd string SG at best next season, so no big loss

                      5) 2 2nd round picks aren't that big a deal to give up, especially when your 12-man roster can be filled out with such strong talent

                      6) I really don't envision this lineup missing the Johnsons or Forbes too much:
                      Toronto Lineup
                      C: Valanciunas, Okafor, Magloire
                      PF: Bargnani, Davis, Kleiza
                      SF: DeRozan, Ariza, Kleiza
                      SG: Mayo, Beal
                      PG: Calderon, Marshall, Uzoh
                      At this point, you're assuming way too much. You're assuming Beal will be there when the Hornets selection is to be made - which is the biggest cog in all of this.

                      You're assuming Memphis doesn't pick up the QO for Mayo or that he would want to sign here.

                      And Demar struggles to play the 3.. especially with his lack of handles..and an inconsistent outside shot.

                      Too many 'what if's'.

                      I have a feeling that a lot of people are going to be disappointed coming into next season.
                      Last edited by MangoKid; Tue May 1, 2012, 06:26 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Little tweak to a previous thought , I know its a long shot but I am thinking all parties involved are getting fair share although I am sure some will disagree.

                        Trade as follows

                        Toronto gets Okafor , Ariza and B Jennings

                        New Orleans gets Davis, James Johnson , Kleiza , Calderon and 3 million ( saving them over 16m in 2 season plus large expiring contract for next year , also leaving room and money to resign Eric Gordon)

                        Milwaukee gets NOH pick #10 , TO Pick #37 , IND Pick #57 plus 2013 1st rounder ( top 3 protected) from TO

                        Buy # 30 pick from Chicago for Cash

                        Sign Nic Batum for 6-8M , Sign Diaw with exception @ 4-5m

                        Draft Marshall with #8 , Darius Miller or Jae Crowder with #30

                        2012-13 Line up

                        PG Jennings (3.1m) / Marshall (2.1m) / Uzoh (0.5m)

                        SG DeRozan (3.3m) / Bayless (4.1m) / Forbes (1.5m)

                        SF Nic Batum (6-8m) / Ariza (7.2m) / Darius Miller or Jae Crowder (0.9m)

                        PF Bargnani (10m) / Amir (6m) / Diaw (4-5m)

                        C Valanciunas (2.8m) / Okafor (13.5m) / Magloire (0.9m)
                        Last edited by GoHuskies; Wed May 9, 2012, 12:23 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          While I am intrigued by the notion of taking on the Okafor contract in return for a pick, I am certain of two things.
                          1. New Orleans would never give up their pick which is currently #4, they may consider their pick which is currently #10.
                          2. If NO were to consider this type of trade they would only do so if they saved a very large amount of money, so we could not send back much in the way of salaries.

                          How would we feel about

                          1. JJ + both seconds for Okafor + #10

                          Or

                          2. Amir + JJ + both seconds for Okafor + Ariza + #10

                          I like #2 better, but I think NO less likely to take it.

                          I am a proponent of drafting risky upside, so I would look at PJ3 and Lillard (for Marshall lovers I think he's gonna slide to late teens)

                          Roster would look like

                          C Val/Okafor/gray or magloire
                          PF Bargs/Davis/Kleiza
                          SF Ariza/Jones/Anderson
                          SG DeRozan/Mid Level Guy (shooter)/Bayless (or S&T shooter)
                          PG Calderon/Lillard/Bi-annual guy (lock down defender type)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            It can be difficult in cases like this to establish another teams price for how they value what they have, but New Orleans seems to be down-playing the value of having a second pick. Here is a recent quote from Monty Williams:

                            "I don't see this deep draft everybody is talking about," Williams tells The Times-Picayune. "I think there are a few players at the top that are really good that can be good players. But I don't see any Carmelos [Carmelo Anthony] or LeBrons [LeBron James]."

                            "I don't think you're going to find a Manu Ginobili at 52," Williams said. "The last few weeks I've had a chance to look at all these young guys on tape and I'm not jaded by the hoopla as everybody else is. I think there are good players, but I don't see this deep draft."
                            If Williams' thoughts about the draft are shared by the rest of the organization then I could see this type of trade as being a possibility if they are provided with a couple pieces they would like.
                            http://twitter.com/m_shantz

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                              Here's the trade: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7pzhhqo

                              To TORONTO
                              - Emeka Okafor
                              - Trevor Ariza
                              - lottery pick

                              To NEW ORLEANS
                              - Amir Johnson
                              - James Johnson
                              - Gary Forbes
                              - $6.79M TPE
                              - 2nd round pick (#56, from Indiana)

                              New Orleans' perspective
                              - unload 2 horrible contracts, freeing up $6.8M next year and lots more over next 5 years
                              - both Johnsons likely in starting lineup next season
                              - get TPE to use in trade
                              - still have a lottery pick
                              - add 2nd round pick

                              Toronto's perspective
                              - use Barbosa TPE to add salary in exchange for additional lottery pick
                              - acquire 2 defensive-minded veterans
                              - draft Beal with New Orleans' pick
                              - draft Marshall with own pick
                              - sign O.J. Mayo or Kirilenko as free agent


                              TORONTO LINEUP
                              C: Valanciunas, Okafor
                              PF: Bargnani, Davis, Kleiza
                              SF: DeRozan/Kirilenko, Ariza, Kleiza
                              SG: Mayo/DeRozan, Beal
                              PG: Calderon, Marshall, Uzoh
                              Wow, this trade absolutely sucks from the Hornets perspective.

                              If they need to unload salaries - and we're not talking about Agent Zero or Baron Davis type contracts here - I believe the Hornets will find a taker which will accept a much lower price.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                                Here's the trade: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=7pzhhqo

                                To TORONTO
                                - Emeka Okafor
                                - Trevor Ariza
                                - lottery pick

                                To NEW ORLEANS
                                - Amir Johnson
                                - James Johnson
                                - Gary Forbes
                                - $6.79M TPE
                                - 2nd round pick (#56, from Indiana)

                                New Orleans' perspective
                                - unload 2 horrible contracts, freeing up $6.8M next year and lots more over next 5 years
                                - both Johnsons likely in starting lineup next season
                                - get TPE to use in trade
                                - still have a lottery pick
                                - add 2nd round pick

                                Toronto's perspective
                                - use Barbosa TPE to add salary in exchange for additional lottery pick
                                - acquire 2 defensive-minded veterans
                                - draft Beal with New Orleans' pick
                                - draft Marshall with own pick
                                - sign O.J. Mayo or Kirilenko as free agent


                                TORONTO LINEUP
                                C: Valanciunas, Okafor
                                PF: Bargnani, Davis, Kleiza
                                SF: DeRozan/Kirilenko, Ariza, Kleiza
                                SG: Mayo/DeRozan, Beal
                                PG: Calderon, Marshall, Uzoh
                                I'd do it in a sec, but NO has a new (loaded) owner & I don't believe he is desperate to save money. The only way he will do a trade is if it improves a team.
                                The above deal with 2 teams just swapping picks. I'd still do it as JV likely will not be a major contributor for 1-3 years (by then Okafor is don as a Raptor).

                                Comment

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