Tim, I thought you were pro Kemba.
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Does Jose Barea's display open more RR faithful to Kemba?
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I haven't been following the posts in this thread, but the title should be changed from Jose Barea to Dirk Nowitzki. Kemba (at least in college) is the type of player that everyone jumps on their back, just like Dirk.your pal,
ebrian
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Apollo wrote: View PostWhy do you feel he will not be a starter?
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Mediumcore wrote: View PostFor the same reasons I mentioned previously. His size and speed will allow him to be a dynamic scoring combo guard, but his inability to check bigger guards due to lack of size, will make him a liability on defense. I'm projecting he follows in the foot steps of Ben Gordon.
Also, he's not going to be Ben Gordon. Before this season he was more of a facilitator? Why? Because his coach told him to be that kind of player. This season he still sported good facilitator numbers but he shot a lot more. Why? Because his coach told him to. It's well documented that this season he shot the ball more out of necessity and not because he's a natural scoring PG. He played the role his coaches told him to play. I can understand why you would think Ben Gordon if you don't want to look beyond the stat sheet but there was a lot more going on. If the stat sheet was all that mattered you'd never see a draft combine, player interviews and private workouts. Hell, we could toss game film out the window for that matter.
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Apollo wrote: View PostTim, I thought you were pro Kemba.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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We're sort of going in circles on this one, so lets just agree to disagree. I've already mentioned that Paul and Rondo are exceptions and my point is not that Kemba can't be as good, but instead that the odds are that he won't be. Ben Gordon's numbers as a facilitator in college are similar to Kemba's ... both around 4.7 assists/game.
Regarding the role he played being what the coach asked of him. Sure it sounds good, but if I was a coach wanting the best for my player and also to attract other players to UCONN I would say the same thing too.
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ebrian wrote: View PostI haven't been following the posts in this thread, but the title should be changed from Jose Barea to Dirk Nowitzki. Kemba (at least in college) is the type of player that everyone jumps on their back, just like Dirk.Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
Follow me on Twitter.
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Apollo wrote: View PostHe's the same height as Rondo and Rondo is the best defensive PG in the league. More goes into defense than size. A lot more. We both know Andrea Bargnani.
What I'd really like to see in these constant comparisons to Rondo is not whether they're the same height, but whether they have the same wingspan and reach. I'm pretty sure just from looking at them that Rondo is on one extreme and Walker is on the other. I'd rather Walker be compared to Paul; at least their wingspans and reach are similar!
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Apollo wrote: View PostMore goes into defense than size. Rondo would be a good defender no matter if he had the same measurements as Paul.
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Quixotic wrote: View PostYes, more, but you can't possibly be arguing that his 6'9" wingspan is not a factor.
- Later quickness allows a PG to stay in front of his man.
- Sprinting speed allows a PG to keep up with his man on the fast break.
- Height does... What? Is Kemba going to be expected to be blocking threes and mid range shots? Does it matter if he's getting a lot of steals if he's playing resonsible defense by staying in front of his man and challenging shots?
- Mass does... What? Is Kemba going to be banging with people down low on the block?
Can Brandon Knight to either of those last two things?
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Rough calculation of average height of a starting PG
Steve Nash: 6'3"
Rajon Rondo: 6'1"
Deron Williams: 6'3"
Chris Paul 6'0"
Jose Calderon: 6'3"
Raymond Felton: 6'1"
John Wall: 6'4"
Jason Kidd: 6'4"
Russell Westbrook: 6'3"
Derrick Rose: 6'3"
Devin Harris: 6'3"
Andre Miller: 6'2"
Kyle Lowry: 6'0"
Tony Parker: 6'2"
Mike Conley: 6'1"
Jrue Hollidy: 6'4"
D.J. Augustin: 6'0"
Jameer Nelson: 6'0"
Steph Curry: 6'3"
Chauncey Billups: 6'3"
Ramon Sessions: 6'3"
Rodney Stuckey: 6'5"
Darren Collison: 6'0"
Ty Lawson: 5'11"
Beno Udrih: 6'3"
Derrick Rose: 6'3"
Derrick Fisher: 6'1"
Mario Chalmers: 6'2"
Mo Williams: 6'1"
Jonny Flynn: 6'0"
AVERAGE HEIGHT: 6'2"
Kemba Walker combine measurement: 6'1"
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Apollo wrote: View PostDid I say that? Most defensive battles are won by hard work, tenacity, research and basketball IQ. Size can help a lot but if you don't have the right stuff it doesn't matter how big you are. I am telling you and everybody else that Kemba Walker has the most important factors locked down. He's not going to be a bad defender, no way, no how. You don't draft a PG to be your lock down defender, you draft him to quarterback your offense and hopefully lead your team. Secondary you want him to be able to defend. Kemba is a leader and has proven year after year that he can quarterback a team, be aggressive AND still take care of the ball. He's proven to be extrmely fast and athletic with a desire to defend. He has all he needs to defend in the NBA. Will he be a lock down defender? Probably not but he won't be a bad defender either. I'm willing to bet he's a lot better on defense than Jose Calderon from day one. He won't be a liability on defense and I'd love for somebody to prove that statement to be wrong by saying something other than "he's 6'0" or 6'1"" so that I can move on.
It's one thing to say Kemba won't be a bad defender (and I'm inclined to agree) and another to constantly bring up Rondo and his all-NBA defense. Kemba isn't going to be challenging Rondo for best defensive guard any time soon. If that wasn't your point, why bring up Rondo at all? The two players couldn't be any more different.
And I don't know how Calderon's defense is relevant at all. I never argued that Walker would be worse than Calderon defensively. I only said don't compare him to Rondo.
Everyone on this board needs to take a step back from this draft. Somehow we went from this being a weak draft to it being chock full of all-star talent. I don't know what to call it, but remember back in the day, sitting in a class devoid of any eye candy, how certain people would start to look more and more desirable? That's this year's draft. If Harrison Baines, Perry Jones and Jared Sullinger didn't pull out (meaning the top 6 would be, in no particular order, Baines, Jones, Sullinger, Irving, Williams and Kanter), would we be sitting here making Kemba sound like he has unlimited ceiling and absolutely no flaws?
I've never said Walker would be a flop; I think he's certainly capable of putting up very good Damon-like numbers on a bad team. Yet it seems the mere idea that he might not be an All-Star starter on a contending team is highly offensive. If everyone's opinion came true about this draft, it'd be one of the strongest in years. Already we have (by different people) Walker compared to Zeke/Iverson/Paul/Rondo, Faried to Rodman, Leonard to Wallace/Kirilenko, Fredette to Mark Price, (Darius) Morris to Andre Miller, Valanciunas to some All-NBA defensive center, Singleton to some All-NBA defensive wing, and that's not even including Irving, Williams, Kanter, Knight and the likes of Marshon Brooks and Iman Shumpert.
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Apollo, your last two posts must not be addressed to me, because:
1) I've never wanted us to draft Knight either; and
2) Well, just take a look at what I posted earlier (and it's not the first time either!).
People really need to get off the height issue. Unless we're worried about his ability to headbutt the ball, or talking about his body frame, why are we constantly bringing up his height?
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Quixotic wrote: View PostYou don't think it was inferred from the Walker/Rondo comparison?
It's one thing to say Kemba won't be a bad defender (and I'm inclined to agree) and another to constantly bring up Rondo and his all-NBA defense. Kemba isn't going to be challenging Rondo for best defensive guard any time soon. If that wasn't your point, why bring up Rondo at all? The two players couldn't be any more different.
Quixotic wrote: View PostAnd I don't know how Calderon's defense is relevant at all.
Quixotic wrote: View PostEveryone on this board needs to take a step back from this draft. Somehow we went from this being a weak draft to it being chock full of all-star talent.
Quixotic wrote: View Postwould we be sitting here making Kemba sound like he has unlimited ceiling and absolutely no flaws?
Quixotic wrote: View PostI've never said Walker would be a flop; I think he's certainly capable of putting up very good Damon-like numbers on a bad team. Yet it seems the mere idea that he might not be an All-Star starter on a contending team is highly offensive.
Quixotic wrote: View PostAlready we have (by different people) Walker compared to Zeke/Iverson/Paul/Rondo,
Quixotic wrote: View PostApollo, your last two posts must not be addressed to me, because:
1) I've never wanted us to draft Knight either; and
2) Well, just take a look at what I posted earlier (and it's not the first time either!).
So again, why are we talking about his height?
To further explain, I'm throwing my opinion out here for all. I just happened to hit quote and comment on something you said before moving along with my thought path.
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