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Evolution of Offence - Casey should read this

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  • #16
    S.R. wrote: View Post
    "It works because of the level of talent they have."

    That ^^^ comment sounds pretty dismissive. It's true, but it doesn't negate the point of the original comment at all. You're right in that it is the reason that Miami's changes were so successful (read: championship-level). The same changes wouldn't make the Raps contenders, but it would make them much better. That's all.

    Re: D'Antoni - evidently he's a very one dimensional coach who needs Steve Nash almost as much as Steve Nash needs him.
    Sound any more dismissive than what I bolded?

    So exactly why can't we make a similar statement towards Spoelstra? What did he accomplish without LeBron? What did he accomplish without talent on that team?

    Miami is talented, exceptionally talented. With one of the best players to ever play the game, who is also incredibly unique in his physical talents and basketball IQ. In that he can play numerous positions and roles. There is just no way we can seperate the success that Miami has had with the talent on that team, except for details at the margins.

    Spoelstra puts people where they can maximize their talents? I can agree to that. But he can also has the luxury of doing that because 1) they already are talented in their skill set 2) having a player the calibre of LeBron makes everyone else a pseudo-role player where talents are more easily maximized.

    Do you not think Casey would love to have a 3 and D guy on this team to be the Raptors 'Battier'? Sure he would. But he doesn't have that. If he did, who on this team could get him the ball as effectively as someone like LeBron can Battier? Novak is a great shooter, comparible to Allen in his own way. But Casey can't afford to keep him on the floor because of his defensive weaknesses, and again, who gets him the ball like LeBron does Allen?

    Sure if JV started hitting mid range shots, and Demar was finishing strong at the rim this team would see more wins or a better team. But they'd also be better players. So how do we seperate > talent from > wins here? We don't.

    Its still a talent issue, its a player issue, its a roster issue, first and foremost.

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    • #17
      Craiger wrote: View Post
      Sound any more dismissive than what I bolded?

      So exactly why can't we make a similar statement towards Spoelstra? What did he accomplish without LeBron? What did he accomplish without talent on that team?

      Miami is talented, exceptionally talented. With one of the best players to ever play the game, who is also incredibly unique in his physical talents and basketball IQ. In that he can play numerous positions and roles. There is just no way we can seperate the success that Miami has had with the talent on that team, except for details at the margins.

      Spoelstra puts people where they can maximize their talents? I can agree to that. But he can also has the luxury of doing that because 1) they already are talented in their skill set 2) having a player the calibre of LeBron makes everyone else a pseudo-role player where talents are more easily maximized.

      Do you not think Casey would love to have a 3 and D guy on this team to be the Raptors 'Battier'? Sure he would. But he doesn't have that. If he did, who on this team could get him the ball as effectively as someone like LeBron can Battier? Novak is a great shooter, comparible to Allen in his own way. But Casey can't afford to keep him on the floor because of his defensive weaknesses, and again, who gets him the ball like LeBron does Allen?

      Sure if JV started hitting mid range shots, and Demar was finishing strong at the rim this team would see more wins or a better team. But they'd also be better players. So how do we seperate > talent from > wins here? We don't.

      Its still a talent issue, its a player issue, its a roster issue, first and foremost.
      I agree, but I'd still argue that it's an oversimplification to say the Raptors can't adjust their system (or that the adjustments would have little/no impact) because they don't have the talent of the Heat. There are bad teams that are well coached and playing a system, which leads to overachieving (the Suns look to be in this camp already). Not sure this is a good synopsis of what you're saying, but it's what I've understood.

      I'm very willing to be dismissive of D'Antoni at this point. I don't think Spolestra is as one-dimensional because the systems he's implemented are far more nuanced than the 7 Seconds or Less Suns offensive principles were. But you're right - we'll never know how good Spol is until we see him with a different roster. It's the same debate re: Popovich and Phil (not that I think Spol's on their level).
      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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      • #18
        Craiger wrote: View Post


        It was also D'Antoni's Suns who were the most efficient offensive team in the league for years! What happened? Did he suddenly just chose to become a bad coach?
        9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

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