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If the team could stick a high-percentage 3pt shooter into the starting SG spot....

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  • #31
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    The Raptors need a 3 and D guy on their roster (assuming Fields doesn't improve next year).

    Lowe, back in April, talks about guys that fit the mold that we are talking about here:
    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...isdom-suggests

    His nominees are:
    Kawhi Leonard
    Arron Afflalo
    Matt Barnes
    Caron Butler
    Gerald Henderson
    Jared Dudley
    Jimmy Butler
    Wesley Matthews
    Corey Brewer
    Danny Green
    Quincy Pondexter

    Would love someone like Matthews or Butler but it would be hard to pry them away from Portland/Chicago.
    If the Raptors could work something with Charlotte involving Bargnani and Henderson being the main assets exchanged that would be great.

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    • #32
      Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
      Matt it's easy to be very effecient when all you do is take open shot 3s. There is a reason why those players take 8 shots a game. If they did you would those effeciency drop dramatically. With the amount of minutes he plays and amount of shots he takes DD is one of most effecient 2 guards in the league. He shots %45 from the field. How many perimeter players shot over %50 in this league. It's not all about stats and fits. Wade and LeBron do not fit together at all but, they make it work. I don't think the duo of DD/RG are better but, I do think thier a better fit Wade/James.
      per48 minutes the players take the following field goal attempts:
      Korver 12.8
      Dudley 14.8
      Dunleavy 15.4
      Green 15.6
      Martin 17.5
      Redick 17.8
      DeRozan 19.6

      But are we to knock the guys for taking wide open 3's because they have the ability to? That is the issue here. DD has not shown the ability to knock down these shots and create the spacing needed for others. This thread is not directly about DeRozan. It is about plugging in the holes around Lowry, Gay, and JV. I still have not seen one post that highlights what DeRozan can do besides score inefficiently with long 2's being his bread and butter (3rd in attempts of 16-24 feet and 139th in percentage made).

      Your highlight on straight field goal percentage misses the entire point of efficiency with eFG% and TS%. You will find DD (and Gay) at the bottom of the league there.

      I disagree with the not all about stats and fits. It actually is. To this I would also add value. There is nothing about DeRozan that offers value. I disagree Wade and LBJ do not fit together. They fit together because they are uber talented and multidimensional. Both rebound, create, score, and defend. If DD is not scoring on his long 2's or getting to the free throw line, what does he do for you?

      Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
      DeMar is way more of slasher than Rudy is. Rudy plays kind of soft. All his moves to just create enough separation for his shot.

      I do think that Rudy Gay's 3 point shot will come back this upcoming season. You have think about his body and psyche has been through the last couple years. He goes through a serious shoulder injury, that has out for a while. The next year he come back but, obviously his psyche off cause of his injury. He lacks confidence in his shot. It probably took him a full season to get back confidence. You think last summer he will work on his body to get back to form but, than women(grandmother) who raised him falls ill. The whole summer than becomes about her. Going into the season his grandmother's condition worsen in till she finally dies at the beginning of the season. Instead of having time to mourn like regular ppl he has to go perform when his mentally checkout. He finally gets trade and gets away from Memphis(where his grandmother lived with him in his home). The little things that would remind them of her are now gone. His able to focus to the task at hand more.

      Now his gotten laser eye surgery to fix his version problem. I for one will really be surprised if Rudy shots under 35% from the the 3 this up and coming year.
      I'm not sure how we can quantify how "way more" of a slasher DD is than Gay. According to stats.nba.com, Gay takes 7.1 shots in the paint per game with DeRozan taking 5.7.

      I have no question there should be an improvement in Gay next season. Between his shoulder, his eyes, his grandmother, his fit in Memphis both on and off court, there are a whole host of reasons for him to improve assuming he puts the work in this summer. It is also why I think he is more valuable of a player than DD.

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      • #33
        If Rudy does improve his shooting doesn't that fix the fit issue? You have to give DD credit. His improved his all around game this year. After the trade he average more than 3 assist the rest of the way. He more than just a one dimentional scorer. His become away better passer and rebounder. That all comes from experience and chemistry.
        @Chr1st1anL

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        • #34
          I don't agree with anymore arguments of saying Rudy & DeMar fit, cause they don't. As all of you mostly know, I'm a big fan (yes, a homer) of DeMar, but I no longer have tried to defend him because whilst he improves, works hard, and has some great games, his defense is still sub-par, the improvements are marginal, and he's an inefficient player with no outside shot and a bad finisher for someone known as a slasher. Jesus Christ his ball-handling is barely better than my brother's, and even DeMar has improved his ball-handling (meaning it was below trash last season).

          DeMar is a player that needs to have plays ran for him to score, and on the fast break. When you have two players that also excel in the low-post on the wing (bad outside shooters), JV and Amir also getting a lot of their points in the paint, there's no spacing, that itself is enough to garner they just don't fit. Their game-styles are also similar; redundant. One of Rudy, sitting Ross (three point shooter, offensive rebound, defense), Fields (defense, rebounding, off-ball offense, potential to re-develop 3 point shot) and or a 3-&-D type player at the shooting guard, are a lot better fits to allow spacing, development for JV, and better defense.

          I think if we try to keep this core:

          PG: Lowry
          SG: Ross/Fields/*3-&-D guy*
          SF: Gay
          PF: *Big from DeRozan/Bargnani trade*, Amir
          C: Valanciunas

          The offense would be a lot better in terms of spacing, more opportunities, more shots, and better ball-movement with one less, inefficient, ball-needing player. We're cutting nearly 7-8 shots off, and spreading that around, instead of one player making that many, and missing that many.
          Defense would easily improve, Ross & Fields are miles better on-ball defenders, Ross has his troubles within a system, but there's potential.
          Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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          • #35
            I'm not sure how we can quantify how "way more" of a slasher DD is than Gay. According to stats.nba.com, Gay takes 7.1 shots in the paint per game with DeRozan taking 5.7.
            Who gets to the line more? Rudy like to elevate in the paint and shot over defenders than actually go the whole way to the rim.
            Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Jun 4, 2013, 03:18 PM.
            @Chr1st1anL

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            • #36
              Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
              I'm not sure how we can quantify how "way more" of a slasher DD is than Gay. According to stats.nba.com, Gay takes 7.1 shots in the paint per game with DeRozan taking 5.7.
              Who gets to the line more? Rudy like to elevate in the paint and shot over defenders than actually go the whole way to the rim.[/QUOTE]

              DeMar does. 5.2 attempts to 4.2.

              I'm not sure what going all the way to the rim does when 7footers just stand up straight and wait for him to try to hang. I can't believe after 4 years he has not figured out you can't out hang a 7footer standing straight up/arms up.

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              • #37
                You know what w.e Massai feels is best for the team I'm down with. I just don't want DD to turn into one of those situation that we regret letting him go.
                @Chr1st1anL

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                • #38
                  ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
                  I don't agree with anymore arguments of saying Rudy & DeMar fit, cause they don't. As all of you mostly know, I'm a big fan (yes, a homer) of DeMar, but I no longer have tried to defend him because whilst he improves, works hard, and has some great games, his defense is still sub-par, the improvements are marginal, and he's an inefficient player with no outside shot and a bad finisher for someone known as a slasher. Jesus Christ his ball-handling is barely better than my brother's, and even DeMar has improved his ball-handling (meaning it was below trash last season).

                  DeMar is a player that needs to have plays ran for him to score, and on the fast break. When you have two players that also excel in the low-post on the wing (bad outside shooters), JV and Amir also getting a lot of their points in the paint, there's no spacing, that itself is enough to garner they just don't fit. Their game-styles are also similar; redundant. One of Rudy, sitting Ross (three point shooter, offensive rebound, defense), Fields (defense, rebounding, off-ball offense, potential to re-develop 3 point shot) and or a 3-&-D type player at the shooting guard, are a lot better fits to allow spacing, development for JV, and better defense.

                  I think if we try to keep this core:

                  PG: Lowry
                  SG: Ross/Fields/*3-&-D guy*
                  SF: Gay
                  PF: *Big from DeRozan/Bargnani trade*, Amir
                  C: Valanciunas

                  The offense would be a lot better in terms of spacing, more opportunities, more shots, and better ball-movement with one less, inefficient, ball-needing player. We're cutting nearly 7-8 shots off, and spreading that around, instead of one player making that many, and missing that many.
                  Defense would easily improve, Ross & Fields are miles better on-ball defenders, Ross has his troubles within a system, but there's potential.
                  I'd just like to say if DD is not efficient than what is Ross?
                  @Chr1st1anL

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                    If Rudy does improve his shooting doesn't that fix the fit issue? You have to give DD credit. His improved his all around game this year. After the trade he average more than 3 assist the rest of the way. He more than just a one dimentional scorer. His become away better passer and rebounder. That all comes from experience and chemistry.
                    I don't think it does fix the issue. You still have $9.5M tied up in a guy who only scores and takes the majority of his shots from the least efficient place on the court.

                    He averaged 3 assists the rest of the way but did he consistently give you 3 assists? Look at his game log. How many times did he get trapped with nowhere to go and made an easily stolen pass? Of the players I listed per48mins Redick, Dunleavy, and Dudley have more assists and Korver is 0.1 less. In terms of league average for his position according to theNBAGeek.com the average for a SG is 4.6ast/48, SF 3.3, and GF is 4.1 - DD is 3.2.

                    He averaged 3.9 rebounds this year but in the first 2 months of the year he averaged 5 rebounds while the rest of the year he averaged much closer to 3. Of the players I listed per48mins Dunleavy, Korver, and Dudley have more rebounds per48 and DD's 5.1 comes in at league average.

                    I disagree he is anything more than an inefficient volume scorer.

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                    • #40
                      Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                      You know what w.e Massai feels is best for the team I'm down with. I just don't want DD to turn into one of those situation that we regret letting him go.
                      which if we do let him go it undoubtedly will be a huge regret. Ujiri stressed youth DeMar plays and does everything that Rudy does at 23. Who will he pick? my money is on DeMar.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Demar starts dropping 3's this stops. The kid is always improving I don't see how you'd think he's maxed out his talent. Consistent 3's will open up what he already has, which will make him and Rudy deadly on offence. Just like demar I have no defence... For demars defence but I expect that to get better based on chemistry next year
                        No Dissrespect...
                        With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility.. You hear me BC?

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                        • #42
                          Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          I'd just like to say if DD is not efficient than what is Ross?
                          He isn't an efficient shooter, but at the same time, neither is he a high volume shooter. Which has potential to be a player scoring and being efficient with a low number of shots. Sure, less minutes means less shots, but it also means less opportunity for him to be able to play without thinking (thinking about the "hook" that is).
                          Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                          • #43
                            Ross is a volume shooter.
                            @Chr1st1anL

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                            • #44
                              Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                              Ross is a volume shooter.
                              How many field goals did he average a game?

                              EDIT: Compare that to DeMar's average.
                              Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                                Ross is a volume shooter.
                                I agree.

                                The difference between DeRozan and Ross is their shot selection.

                                Of Ross' 454 shot attempts:
                                43% were 24+ft/3s,
                                24% were the dreaded long 2s 16-24ft
                                10% were 8-16ft
                                23% were 8ft and under

                                Of DD's 1234 shot attempts:
                                10% were 24+ft/3s,
                                36% were the dreaded long 2s 16-24ft
                                21% were 8-16ft
                                32% were 8ft and under


                                *I would love to see a breakdown of Ross' 3pt attempts looking at catch and shoot versus curl and shoot. Casey had Ross running the same plays for DD except Ross would shoot a 3. From my recollection he made more 3s on the catch and shoot.

                                **Interesting that 8ft and under Ross shot 68% vs DD's 56%. I think this stems from Ross literally trying to dunk everything and being a much more explosive athlete than DD. For all the hype on DD's athleticism, he lacks explosiveness and speed.

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