Game #42: Toronto Raptors 104 - Philadelphia 76ers 95

[psrs1]

What's the problem here? people here whining about JV's mins again? did you guys watch the game? the Raptors are SO MUCH BETTER defensively when Hayes and PP are on the floor.

Valanciunas is just a mess defensively. He's so slow. He gets pushed around all the time. And offensively he needs to toughen up. Can't really blame Casey for benching JV again tonight. If JV continues to play like this i'd love to see more Chuck Hayes.

Chuck Hayes offensively is not a threat. In fact I would love to see that Raps won loss record when JV doesn't play in the fourth and when Hayes plays more than JV. JV needs minutes to grow . If you believe that Chuck Hayes will get us farther ahead than JV this year I fundamentally disagree. There have been many games where JV has struggled in first half and excelled in the second half. His pluses outweigh his negatives.

[rocwell]

[golden]

What's the problem here? people here whining about JV's mins again? did you guys watch the game? the Raptors are SO MUCH BETTER defensively when Hayes and PP are on the floor.

Valanciunas is just a mess defensively. He's so slow. He gets pushed around all the time. And offensively he needs to toughen up. Can't really blame Casey for benching JV again tonight. If JV continues to play like this i'd love to see more Chuck Hayes.

Hell, no. If we see more Chuck Hayes, that's the sign of the apocalypse. Chuck Hayes is similar to Reggie Evans, basically you're playing 4 on 5 on offense. Combine that with the fact that Casey has absolutely no clue how to utilize bigs on offense, and it back to Hero Ball. This is a short sighted strategy that gets you nowhere, when you have a potential 2-way player that needs to be developed.

[The Great One]

Chuck Hayes offensively is not a threat. In fact I would love to see that Raps won loss record when JV doesn't play in the fourth and when Hayes plays more than JV. JV needs minutes to grow . If you believe that Chuck Hayes will get us farther ahead than JV this year I fundamentally disagree. There have been many games where JV has struggled in first half and excelled in the second half. His pluses outweigh his negatives.

And you think JV is a threat??

Basketball is not all about offense man. You gotta defend people too. The way JV is playing right now, if he played there in the 4th tonight, we're probably talking about a 76ers win. Hayes was a HUGE part of the Raps win tonight because of his D alone.

I agree. JV needs minutes to grow. He needs to EARN those mins though.

[Scraptor]

What's the problem here? people here whining about JV's mins again? did you guys watch the game? the Raptors are SO MUCH BETTER defensively when Hayes and PP are on the floor.

Valanciunas is just a mess defensively. He's so slow. He gets pushed around all the time. And offensively he needs to toughen up. Can't really blame Casey for benching JV again tonight. If JV continues to play like this i'd love to see more Chuck Hayes.

I'm not trying to single you out, but this right here epitomizes the shortsightedness of win-now thinking.

Playing an almost 31 year old journeyman vet over a high-ceiling 21 year old sophomore in order to try to squeeze out a couple of wins is ridiculous. Learning how to anchor a defense takes situational awareness that comes from thousands of repetitions. By not getting Val those reps we are lengthening his learning curve and wasting his rookie contract.

This is why tanking is such an erroneous term. Developing young players is an investment. It costs wins now but pays itself back many times over with proper growth and draft picks. Hell, if Demar hadn't been forcefed minutes his first few years he'd never have made it to the level we are currently seeing.

[Bendit]

I'm not trying to single you out, but this right here epitomizes the shortsightedness of win-now thinking.

Playing an almost 31 year old journeyman vet over a high-ceiling 21 year old sophomore in order to try to squeeze out a couple of wins is ridiculous. Learning how to anchor a defense takes situational awareness that comes from thousands of repetitions. By not getting Val those reps we are lengthening his learning curve and wasting his rookie contract.

This is why tanking is such an erroneous term. Developing young players is an investment. It costs wins now but pays itself back many times over with proper growth and draft picks. Hell, if Demar hadn't been forcefed minutes his first few years he'd never have made it to the level we are currently seeing.

That said I absolutely agree with you...but...there is a bit of a fine line understanding a sophomore's physical capabilities and his psyche. Both come into play vis a vis their ability not to be over extended as well as possibily get injured or lose their confidence if they play badly and let down the team/themself (confuse their physically tired state with ability). We have to trust the coaching staff sometimes. They are closest to the player and want to protect them.

[thead]

would people stop complaining about JV and his minutes. He was shitting all over the bed on defense tonight

[tonious35]

5-1 for KAZANTHEMAN!!!

[KazanTheMan]

5-1 for KAZANTHEMAN!!!

.. the one loss was a fluke (heat game)..

[S.R.]

would people stop complaining about JV and his minutes. He was shitting all over the bed on defense tonight

Philly outscored them by 20 in the paint (56-36) and JV was awful, just awful in transition, which is basically Philly's only offensive strength. Hayes looked much better.

JV will still develop by playing 20 minutes on a bad night. It's not the apocalypse.

[GLF]

Yea like people need to stop acting like if JV and TRoss don't get 30 minutes a night they won't develop. There is nothing wrong with giving them 20-25 minutes a night and if they show you something that night you give them more. Yes they are our future and yes they are young but you have to EARN minutes as well. You can learn by watching Hayes and Salmons, you can learn by watching tape, you can learn by practicing with you team. JV and TRoss are the starters and they will get playing time every game for 82 games. It's not like when they play bad one game he doesn't play them again for a week. As long as they're getting playing time they will develop and learn. We aren't tanking whether you like it or not and we are trying to win. If JV and TRoss are making the same mistakes over and over and when Hayes or Salmons come in they change the game in a positive way for them you got to play them. Simple. Take a breath everyone. JV and TRoss will develop and get better. It takes time and 30 minutes a night isn't the only way of doing that.

[The Great One]

I think Melo's rampage is over. 62 points and a new team record for points scored in a single game

What i don't understand about that game was. They took him out w/ 7mins left. I know it was a blowout but there's still 7mins left. Take him out of the game the last 2-3 mins. Would've been cool to see him score 70+ points.

[MACK11]

What i don't understand about that game was. They took him out w/ 7mins left. I know it was a blowout but there's still 7mins left. Take him out of the game the last 2-3 mins. Would've been cool to see him score 70+ points.

Yeah I understand what you are saying but the game was over, how about Carmelo Anthony magically tears his ACL? Now everyone would be questioning why Woodson kept him out there in Garbage time when the game was clearly a win for the Knicks

[OldSkoolCool]

Ross would suck in three-point contest..

I agree, his shot isn't what I would call automatic yet in the sense of picking balls off a rack and firing them up. Maybe in a couple of years I would like to see him there though

And you think JV is a threat??

Basketball is not all about offense man. You gotta defend people too. The way JV is playing right now, if he played there in the 4th tonight, we're probably talking about a 76ers win. Hayes was a HUGE part of the Raps win tonight because of his D alone.

I agree. JV needs minutes to grow. He needs to EARN those mins though.

JV has earned the minutes. He started the game very well, came out with good energy, was calm under pressure on the block, wasn't as bad defensively as you would suggest. BTW the defensive breakdowns were mostly caused by our guards allowing penetration and leaving JV out to dry, not JV sucking.

But then Casey sits him for 10 minutes, he enters the game with 6 left in the second and DIDN'T touch the ball in that second quarter. No wonder he disappears from games. Watch JV, his role on offense is to literally stand on the block and almost never get the ball, his body language is dejected because he knows he isn't going to get the ball. That is DEVASTATING to player development

Yes they are our future and yes they are young but you have to EARN minutes as well. You can learn by watching Hayes and Salmons, you can learn by watching tape, you can learn by practicing with you team. JV and TRoss are the starters and they will get playing time every game for 82 games. It's not like when they play bad one game he doesn't play them again for a week. As long as they're getting playing time they will develop and learn. We aren't tanking whether you like it or not and we are trying to win. If JV and TRoss are making the same mistakes over and over and when Hayes or Salmons come in they change the game in a positive way for them you got to play them. Simple. Take a breath everyone. JV and TRoss will develop and get better. It takes time and 30 minutes a night isn't the only way of doing that.

JV and Ross were huge parts of our little winning streak...or have you forgotten that already?? They have earned a bigger leash without a doubt.

With the NBA schedule being so heavy, game time is the largest part of a players chances to practice. So they need to play. It is also very hard to replace NBA game level scenario on a practice court.

If JV and Ross were making the same mistakes over and over I'd pull them too, but they aren't. DD can hoist up and miss 9 hots in a row (like what happened in tonight's game), but is allowed to fire them up. DD can miss multiple defensive assignments over and over, and still gets to play. Casey is a shit coach at managing players. And if he was smart he would play Ross and Val more because they are BETTER than our bench, and will continue to get better as they get more experience. Casey is a fucking idiot and is regressing back into his old Vet ways....these aren't new issues

[Superjudge]

I'm not trying to single you out, but this right here epitomizes the shortsightedness of win-now thinking.

Playing an almost 31 year old journeyman vet over a high-ceiling 21 year old sophomore in order to try to squeeze out a couple of wins is ridiculous. Learning how to anchor a defense takes situational awareness that comes from thousands of repetitions. By not getting Val those reps we are lengthening his learning curve and wasting his rookie contract.

This is why tanking is such an erroneous term. Developing young players is an investment. It costs wins now but pays itself back many times over with proper growth and draft picks. Hell, if Demar hadn't been force fed minutes his first few years he'd never have made it to the level we are currently seeing.

this comment is even more shortsighted than the one you made a comment on.

At a point, you make a decision, are we in, or are we out. The Raps decided a while back, they were in, it was playoffs, revenue, new culture, yadda yadda. The minute that happens, the only thin that matters is winning.

Jonas might get good, but whats the hurry? Loser teams play their rookies and prospects because they have to, and they are already losing so who gives a shit. Winning teams use players when they are playing well, and sit um down in favour of a better matchup when they are not. Trust me, its not a new concept and it isn't like JV is nailed to the bench, not even close. He plays great minutes and is constantly learning. But when the shit goes down, and its a close game and wins are at a premium there is no time for hand holding in a mans game. JV is like minus 100 and Haye sis locking guys down, you make that move 10 times out of ten.

You wanna win, you win, you wanna run a day care and tank, you do that, however the time for that has passed.

As for Demar, you can't make the comment you made. You have zero idea what would have happened with less minutes from day one, and to be honest, you just made that call to make a point, but its not valid. He wasn't even force fed, he was the only effing option all those years, who was consistently better at his position????

Nah, JV is being treated great. And Hayes, when needed is doing wha he does.... and Toronto needs wins.... its an easy call.