Change is needed.

[charlesnba23]

Thank you Red and White. Y'all seem to care too much about offense. Let's say Harris can put 14, DeRozan 18, Barnes 12, Okafor 12 and Valanciunas 8. This ain't bad at all for a starting five, and this is a heck of a defensive crew. Plus, those numbers are pretty pessimistic.

[Maleko]

Perhaps a hornets pick this year in return for Bargnani. Take Marshall.

[Maleko]

Perhaps a hornets pick this year in return for Bargnani. Take Marshall.

In other words Okafor and the pick.

[charlesnba23]

Also, this would push Valanciunas even more to become a complete, versatile player.
Valanciunas/Gray/Magloire
Okafor/Davis/Evans
Barnes/Johnson
DeRozan/Forbes/Weems
Harris/Dragic/Rookie

[charlesnba23]

In other words Okafor and the pick.

Yeah it could be this, plus this would give us more flexibility for the Jazz trade.

[ReubenJRD]

In other words Okafor and the pick.

I wouldn't be upset with that.

[charlesnba23]

Alright, now we have our two final offers.
Trade #1:
Hornets get Andrea Bargnani.
Raptors get Emeka Okafor and a 2012 first round pick.

Trade #2:
Jazz get Jose Calderon, Amir Johnson and two 2012 second round picks.
Raptors get Devin Harris and Trade Exception.

Valanciunas/Gray/Magloire
Okafor/Davis/Kleiza
Barnes/Johnson
DeRozan/Forbes/Weems
Harris/Dragic/Rookie

[MangoKid]

I wouldn't be upset with that.

Yeah, I wouldn't touch Okafor. Not at that contract. And the pick would absolutely have to be 1 or 2. Then again, if the Hornets get the #1 pick, there's no way they're trading it.

[MangoKid]

Alright, now we have our two final offers.
Trade #1:
Hornets get Andrea Bargnani.
Raptors get Emeka Okafor and a 2012 first round pick.

Trade #2:
Jazz get Jose Calderon, Amir Johnson and two 2012 second round picks.
Raptors get Devin Harris and Trade Exception.

Valanciunas/Gray/Magloire
Okafor/Davis/Kleiza
Barnes/Johnson
DeRozan/Forbes/Weems
Harris/Dragic/Rookie

I don't really see how those moves makes Toronto better. Sorry.

[charlesnba23]

Well, this is certainly not making them worse.
1. Defense improved
2. Better draft pick
3. Change

[MangoKid]

Let's dissect the first trade:

Bargnani for Okafor and the Hornet's first pick.
If the pick is indeed the #1 pick, there's no way the Hornets do that deal. If it's 4,5,6, I could see the Hornets making that deal, but I don't see why Toronto does it. Okafor is a slow, plodding big man who's offensive game is declining, but still remains a good rebounder. But at 27-28 mil over the next 2 years isn't really exciting. And he's not an upgrade over Bargnani in any way. I wonder how Okafor will come back from a knee injury. I'd pass on it.

Trade #2
Jose Calderon and Amir Johnson plus 2 second rounders for Devin Harris
The Jazz would do Calderon for Harris straight up. But why would we want Harris? He's not that same guy that played in Dallas and New Jersey. I can't see Utah wanting Amir with the plethora of big men they have.

And are we spending our cap room on Weems and Dragic? Hmm.. Okafor, Weems, Dragic and Harris doesn't really scream ' hitting the ground running'. It;s changing the team alright, but I'm not sure for the better.

[MangoKid]

Well, this is certainly not making them worse.
1. Defense improved
2. Better draft pick
3. Change

Those moves actually do make this team worse - at least in my opinion.

[charlesnba23]

Those moves actually do make this team worse - at least in my opinion.

As you said, it's your opinion, and I think it is shared with a lot of others. You have yours, I have mine, and I don't think any of us will convince the other one tonight. I would do those trades and you would not, I think we can close the topic. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts! But... We should do those trades!

[MangoKid]

As you said, it's your opinion, and I think it is shared with a lot of others. You have yours, I have mine, and I don't think any of us will convince the other one tonight. I would do those trades and you would not, I think we can close the topic. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts! But... We should do those trades!

I agree that this team needs 'change' (in the sense that we need better talent next season)...however..if we're trading 2 of our3 best players, we have to be getting talent in return. In trading Bargnani, you're trading a 7 foot big man who has a very sold inside out game, and was finding his stride defensively under Casey..all of this for Emeka Okafor - a slowfooted bigman who is on the decline and earning a LOT more money than Bargnani.
In dealing Calderon, you're dealing him for someone (Devin Harris) who's even MORE injury prone than Calderon, is not a very good point guard and has more years on his contract than Jose. I'd rather re-up Bayless and have him run the point as opposed to acquiring Harris.

That's why those deals you proposed, I feel don't make this team better. They make them worse.

[charlesnba23]

Here's what I'll answer you.

First of all, you said you wouldn't trade Bargs for Okafor and a number 4, 5 or 6 pick. I'd trade Bargs for one of those picks alone anyday of the week! At 4, 5 or 6, we could still get guys like Harrison Barnes, Andre Drummond and Jeremy Lamb! http://nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

And, yes, we are spending our cap room on Weems and Dragic. In Dragic, you get a lot of insurance in case Harris get injured, as you seem to say that he's injury prone. Look at what he does right now in Houston. Western Conference player of the week. Try to get better free agents out there, you won't. A championship team isn't build in a year, and this fact is even more of a fact when your team is the Toronto Raptors.

Last but not least, Devin Harris ain't that much more of an injury prone player than Jose. Plus he's two years younger, he's quicker, he's a better scorer, better defender. He's been an NBA All Star not that long ago, and he played in the NBA Finals. No brainer for me.