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Official: Salmons & '15 2nd round pick to Hawks for Williams & Nogueira

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  • enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Its just that Bebe will be his Brazilian pal, and may have a larger influence on Bruno than we would hope for. However, it could also work the other way around, and Bebe gets his shit together in our organization.
    Again, if you had the same opportunity to realise your dream, would you look at your countryman (who is basically a noob) or an hard working all-star?
    Myself (March 2014):
    The raptors are a tremendous young team and will win a championship in the following five years.

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    • Bebe has solid looking post moves too, and good shooting mechanics

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      • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
        I'd rather have Lou Will/Bebe compared to ennis/prince.
        Not sure I would.

        I'd rather have Ennis over Bebe since we already have a young C developing and that position should be secure long-term. We have no security at PG, and even long-term outlook is blurry if Lowry re-signs (how many years will Lowry's body hold up with his style of play?). Though I don't know, if Noguiera can play PF as well it changes my view a bit, but I'd still like that long-term option at PG.

        I'd rather have Williams over Prince in a vacuum....but if we bring back Lowry and Vasquez, I'd rather have Prince to have some veteran stability at SF. Yes, he's pretty terrible at this point, but he's a long SF with championship experience. Williams is definitely the better player at this point though...I just wish our perimeter depth chart was adding size as well, not getting smaller.

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        • OptimalOptimist wrote: View Post
          Again, if you had the same opportunity to realise your dream, would you look at your countryman (who is basically a noob) or an hard working all-star?
          Depends on which dream I was to realise at that moment.

          The guy is 18 years old. He's probably dreaming about girls 90% of the time. Why not hang out with the cool guy with a weird hairdo who's closer to his age and speaks his language.

          You are saying rational things, but real life isn't necessarily so rational at 18.

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          • I hope Bebe has been hitting the weight room to add some strength and size. Him and Bruno should be on similar programs. They should be on similar diets as well. They need a lot of lean mass
            "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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            • For the record:

              1. Lou Williams isn't who he used to be and it's questionable whether he'll ever be the player he was in 2012 ever again. ACL tears can be a bitch that way.

              2. Bebe has knee problems, and for a center knee problems are one of the three things you don't want to hear about (foot and back are the other two). There is some question if he can ever be a starting center because of those knee issues. That's why Atlanta was willing to deal him.

              3. That said, it's still a good trade for Toronto, because if one of Williams or Bebe finds his form or overcomes their nagging injury issues, we basically got an additional asset for nothing (since we were going to waive Salmons regardless). It's just not the mega-steal people are making it out to be.

              4. Finally, trading Bebe for Ennis would be the definition of a no-brainer. Bebe was a mid-round big man pick in a bad year; Ennis was lottery-level talent in a good year. If that trade becomes available, you make it and you don't think twice.

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              • magoon wrote: View Post
                For the record:

                1. Lou Williams isn't who he used to be and it's questionable whether he'll ever be the player he was in 2012 ever again. ACL tears can be a bitch that way.

                2. Bebe has knee problems, and for a center knee problems are one of the three things you don't want to hear about (foot and back are the other two). There is some question if he can ever be a starting center because of those knee issues. That's why Atlanta was willing to deal him.

                3. That said, it's still a good trade for Toronto, because if one of Williams or Bebe finds his form or overcomes their nagging injury issues, we basically got an additional asset for nothing (since we were going to waive Salmons regardless). It's just not the mega-steal people are making it out to be.

                4. Finally, trading Bebe for Ennis would be the definition of a no-brainer. Bebe was a mid-round big man pick in a bad year; Ennis was lottery-level talent in a good year. If that trade becomes available, you make it and you don't think twice.
                Considering his knee issues, lack of noticeable improvement since last year, character / work ethic questions and just getting a year older, Nogueira is probably a mid 2nd rounder this year.

                He's a nice buy-low prospect. He still has physical gifts and he might reach his upside. But yep, Ennis seems a much more valuable asset.

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                • MACK11 wrote: View Post
                  Yeah I have no idea how John salmons could get us Lou Williams and a 7foot shot blocking prospect!

                  Masai is something else LMAO
                  When teams are trying to clear cap space, take advantage. That's what Masai did here. With the Lowry situation looming and the Ennis situation not coming to fruition, this seems to make up for some blemishes in the past couple weeks.

                  I'm a huge fan of this trade, also because Bebe AND Bruno WILL be playing next season, considering both are looking for buyouts and play next season.

                  For what we currently have:

                  PG: Lowry/Vasquez/De Colo (this whole point guard sitch is weird)
                  SG: DeRozan/Williams/Fields
                  SF: Ross/Caboclo/Daniels
                  PF: Johnson/Patterson/Hansbrough
                  C: Valanciunas/Nogueira/Hayes

                  I expect Fields and Hayes to get dealt at some point, and I doubt all three of the PG's are kept, Lowry or no. I do hope quite frankly it's Lowry/Vasquez. Sorry De Coolio.
                  Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                  • Considering his knee issues, lack of noticeable improvement since last year, character / work ethic questions and just getting a year older, Nogueira is probably a mid 2nd rounder this year.

                    If you look at his per 40 numbers they aren't too shabby. 15 pts, 10 rbs., 3.78 blks, with a .703 FG% and a 677 FT% (that can be improved). Not too bad for the spanish league. It really could go either way with the NBA style game though.
                    Last edited by saints91; Mon Jun 30, 2014, 02:27 PM.

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                    • Just want to say that I love this trade. I really thought there was a good chance that we'd just cut Salmons loose and use the savings for free agency/cap space. However, Masai just keeps finding ways to get talent/something from scrap/nothing. We essentially got the 16th pick in the 2013 draft and a serviceable player in Lou Williams for JOHN SALMONS

                      Let me pretend to be Masai for a little bit......

                      If we lose Lowry, I would immediately call up OKC and see what it would take to get Reggie Jackson.

                      Regarding Ennis..... maybe a deal can still get done with Phoenix, but i'm fine either way. Just like Wiggins, we can continue to improve our team and maybe we can get them to come home after they become free agents.
                      Last edited by special1; Mon Jun 30, 2014, 02:38 PM.

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                      • The reason I'm optimistic about Noguiera is because he was touted in pre-draft scouting as a solid pick-and-roll finisher (and defender), and apparently he and Schroeder ran some good P&Rs in summer league last year. Assuming we keep our free agents, a second unit of Vasquez, Williams, Fields/Bruno, Patterson, and Noguiera can run essentially the same offence as a starting unit of Lowry, DeRozan, Ross, Johnson, and Valanciunas, and you can switch players much more easily between the two units. You couldn't really say that last year with Hayes, Hansbrough, and Salmons occupying prominent positions on the second unit.

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                        • octothorp wrote: View Post
                          The reason I'm optimistic about Noguiera is because he was touted in pre-draft scouting as a solid pick-and-roll finisher (and defender), and apparently he and Schroeder ran some good P&Rs in summer league last year. Assuming we keep our free agents, a second unit of Vasquez, Williams, Fields/Bruno, Patterson, and Noguiera can run essentially the same offence as a starting unit of Lowry, DeRozan, Ross, Johnson, and Valanciunas, and you can switch players much more easily between the two units. You couldn't really say that last year with Hayes, Hansbrough, and Salmons occupying prominent positions on the second unit.
                          He's pretty much Amir

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                          • BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
                            Considering his knee issues, lack of noticeable improvement since last year, character / work ethic questions and just getting a year older, Nogueira is probably a mid 2nd rounder this year.

                            He's a nice buy-low prospect. He still has physical gifts and he might reach his upside. But yep, Ennis seems a much more valuable asset.
                            Where are you getting this shit from? The guy just won defensive player of the year in the second best basketball league in the world. Lack of improvement? So I'm assuming you watched all of Bebe's games the past 2 years to help you form that opinion, or you're just talking out your ass (far more likely).

                            I am a Hawks fan as well and this is a fucking steal for Toronto. I watched most of the Hawks summer league games and Bebe is a shot blocking machine. Atlanta is betting the farm on getting Deng or Melo and Masai just took advantage of it, stealing their high upside center prospect (although ATL added another C prospect in the draft which probably made them more amenable to dealing Bebe).

                            Also, Lou Williams is a huge upgrade over Salmons. Even post-ACL he has an above average TS% of .547 and he is a better defender than Salmons too. Add in the fact that he can run the point if you need him to and the trade looks even better. We were desperately thin at SG and needed bench scoring, Williams helps with both of those.

                            If Lowry comes back Vasquez is gone for sure, so that should alleviate people's salary concerns. Bringing back Tyler also gives us insurance in case PPat gets a big offer we don't wanna match. Why some of you insist on poo-pooing everything Raptors related is beyond me. This trade was a huge huge win. Quit being a curmudgeon and celebrate for once.
                            Last edited by Primer; Mon Jun 30, 2014, 04:01 PM.

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                            • Primer wrote: View Post
                              Where are you getting this shit from? The guy just won defensive player of the year in the second best basketball league in the world. Lack of improvement? So I'm assuming you watched all of Bebe's games the past 2 years to help you form that opinion, or you're just talking out your ass (far more likely).

                              I am a Hawks fan as well and this is a fucking steal for Toronto. I watched most of the Hawks summer league games and Bebe is a shot blocking machine. Atlanta is betting the farm on getting Deng or Melo and Masai just took advantage of it, stealing their high upside center prospect (although ATL added another C prospect in the draft which probably made them more amenable to dealing Bebe).
                              Haters gotta hate.

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                              • raptors999 wrote: View Post
                                He's pretty much Amir
                                That's something I really noticed in the vids - he's got that awkward, tippy toe approach around the rim and on offensive boards, where he'll contort his body and almost volleys the ball back in - just like Amir.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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