Troy Murphy

[Tim W.]

Kaman is 15-10 guy with a blk per 30mins.
Murphy was 15-10 last year with almost a blk per game.

What does any of that have to do with how good a defensive player someone is? Both Kaman and Murphy are certainly productive players, but neither is even an average defensive player.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Trading for Murphy doesn't create cap space. Trading for anyone doesn't create cap space unless you're packaging Jose or someone else and getting back another expiring.

yes, after i understood yours and joey's explanation on the TPE then acquiring Murphy's contract for cap space wont make sense.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

What does any of that have to do with how good a defensive player someone is? Both Kaman and Murphy are certainly productive players, but neither is even an average defensive player.

Who is an average defensive player then? How do you determine that other than rebs, steals or blocks?

[MangoKid]

would the Celts have pieces that the Nets would want, or even have players that they would be ok to let go to match Murphy's salary?

I think people need to understand that not just because the raps are in a rebuild mode, they should acquire all young players, or pile up all their resources to get ready for the draft and acquire young pieces. you still need vets on your team. vets not just due to age and years in the league, but experienced vets who's been in the playoffs, etc. im not zeroing in on Troy Murphy as a qualified vet, but someone who has been through a lot in the league could be good for a young team like the raps.

I was just throwing a arbitrary team out there that could use Murphy's services. I didn't bother to look at team's salaries.

For a team like the Raptors, if they're not making the playoffs, why trade for a player that gives them a worse draft selection? That's the worst thing they could do right now. Why finish 2 games out of the playoff and have to select 11th when they very well could finish well behind and pick 5th? You know what I mean?

If Murphy was a real grizzled vet, been through a lot of wars, been part of a couple of deep playoff runs, then maybe it would serve some real purpose. But he's played in zero playoff games, and for all intensive purposes, he's just gonna be looking to get his because it's a contract year.

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

I was just throwing a arbitrary team out there that could use Murphy's services. I didn't bother to look at team's salaries.

For a team like the Raptors, if they're not making the playoffs, why trade for a player that gives them a worse draft selection? That's the worst thing they could do right now. Why finish 2 games out of the playoff and have to select 11th when they very well could finish well behind and pick 5th? You know what I mean?

agreed. but like i said in my previous posts, its hard to forecast the future, i think its still the onus of a franchise to win and win now, rather than let a season go and look towards the draft. But unfortunately, that is what makes sense for the Raps. Lose now and look to the draft. Im just hoping that this time they land someone who can be a game-changer, or better yet, a team changer. someone that can take this team to the finals.

[Tim W.]

Who is an average defensive player then? How do you determine that other than rebs, steals or blocks?

Other than actually watching them play? Well, I guess advance stats work. Rebounds, steals and blocks just tells you how many times they get rebounds, steals and blocks. You can be a horrible defensive player and block a lot of shots, or get a lot of steals.

I remember when the Vancouver Grizzlies drafted Stromile Swift. He really did one thing well and that was block shots, but his coach wouldn't let him because he was FAR too anxious to block shots and was actually clueless on how to play good defense. The coach (I can't remember which one it was) tried to make him play defense on the ground, where he would learn how to play good defense rather than just try and block everything, while getting himself out of position and actually making it easier for the other team to score.

Both blocks and steals are great when they are in concert with fundamental defense, but simply trying to get steals and blocks all the time can leave you out of position and hurt your team defensively.

As for who's an average defensive player, I'd say David West is an average defensive player. He's not going to hurt you on the defensive end, but he's not going to make much of an impact on that end, either.

[Maleko]

+1 Tim

[TheGloveinRapsUniform]

Other than actually watching them play? Well, I guess advance stats work. Rebounds, steals and blocks just tells you how many times they get rebounds, steals and blocks. You can be a horrible defensive player and block a lot of shots, or get a lot of steals.

I remember when the Vancouver Grizzlies drafted Stromile Swift. He really did one thing well and that was block shots, but his coach wouldn't let him because he was FAR too anxious to block shots and was actually clueless on how to play good defense. The coach (I can't remember which one it was) tried to make him play defense on the ground, where he would learn how to play good defense rather than just try and block everything, while getting himself out of position and actually making it easier for the other team to score.

Both blocks and steals are great when they are in concert with fundamental defense, but simply trying to get steals and blocks all the time can leave you out of position and hurt your team defensively.

As for who's an average defensive player, I'd say David West is an average defensive player. He's not going to hurt you on the defensive end, but he's not going to make much of an impact on that end, either.

Agreed, it makes sense. I can actually argue for Kaman coz against the Mavs and Spurs, Dirk only had 16 and duncan had 12, he fairly does well against opposing bigmen but i dont think we can say the same for Murphy.

Is Davis a good defensive player?

[Joey]

Davis is absolutely a good defender.
He is solid on the weak side and with his Help Defense. That is very rare to see in young players. His IQ is through the roof, which allows for an 'infinite ceiling' type scenario with this kid; at least on the defensive end.
All of his defensive stats come within the Team plan.
He doesn't leave his man wide open just to get a block.
He boxes out his man, which is not alot to ask, but rarely seen in Young Big Guys, as they only think to go after ball. Thats what makes GREAT rebounders, and great bodies to have around the basket on both ends of the floor.
When playing the Zone (which the Raptors should use far more often. Mavs use it ALL the time) Ed Davis is constantly communicating, which is what is NEEDED from your middle man in the Zone. He puts the ball on the radar for the rest of the team.
AND he will only get better. Remember, he's only played a handful of games still.