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Why do we want to trade Jose again?

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  • #46
    enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Yeah I would do a 6 MIL/Year deal,

    Would Calderon?
    I think he would, since we all know he will never feel as welcomed as he has been in T.O. And he has seniority and a chance to retire and play his entire career as a Rap. The first to do so if I am not mistaken.

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    • #47
      Honestly is this surprising? everyone in the league and fans themselves know Calderon is a good point guard no doubt about it, its just anytime someone comes in to replace him he plays much much better I think being a starter for Raps so long it hurts his ego to come off the bench and hinders his play.

      Granted though a healthy Lowry is the real deal and woud much rather start him over Calderon and thats not an insult to him just a recognition of what Lowry as a player is.

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      • #48
        One of the main problems here is that people are simply advocating for Lowry over Calderon based on age. Is it that outlandish to think that Calderon will be playing as long as a reckless Kyle Lowry? I mean Jose's only 4 and a half years older than Lowry and his playing style is much more suited to lasting deep into his 30's. I'm not saying that Jose is a Hall of Famer but Jose could very well last as long as Steve Nash whereas I see Lowry out of the NBA at the age of 34 or 35. The point is, once Lowry starts slowing down, he's done whereas Jose will be playing this way for another 5-6 years, more than enough time to find a good point guard in the draft.

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        • #49
          Jesus H Mr. Christie!

          What kool-aid are people drinking, I want in!

          This is what makes Toronto fans so crazy, one minute we love our team the next we hate. Same with the players. What nonsense.

          Let me clear things up. Lowry is a solid solid PG, and definately worth putting in as our starter. If you want to be stat geeks, check out Hollingers PER, explains a lot.

          If I could trade Calderon, I would. Especially if a high value player could be in got in return, if not then keep him.

          I'm glad he had a great game, I'm glad we won, but let's not forget that we still suck...sorry to be the hope dasher. What's worse is whether or not this turns into another classic 30-52, 34-48, 29-53, season. In which case we'll have no pick...awesome.

          Calderon is not a starter, if he was we could have traded him earlier for something....it never happened.

          Can we get back to normal, let's continue to dislike this season (despite the exciting win) until they at least get to .500, and stop thinking that Calderon is the answer and that Lowry was a misstep.

          Thanks
          i8theball.com it's a website...about, you know....basketball.

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          • #50
            pillowmint wrote: View Post
            Jesus H Mr. Christie!

            What kool-aid are people drinking, I want in!

            This is what makes Toronto fans so crazy, one minute we love our team the next we hate. Same with the players. What nonsense.

            Let me clear things up. Lowry is a solid solid PG, and definately worth putting in as our starter. If you want to be stat geeks, check out Hollingers PER, explains a lot.

            If I could trade Calderon, I would. Especially if a high value player could be in got in return, if not then keep him.

            I'm glad he had a great game, I'm glad we won, but let's not forget that we still suck...sorry to be the hope dasher. What's worse is whether or not this turns into another classic 30-52, 34-48, 29-53, season. In which case we'll have no pick...awesome.

            Calderon is not a starter, if he was we could have traded him earlier for something....it never happened.

            Can we get back to normal, let's continue to dislike this season (despite the exciting win) until they at least get to .500, and stop thinking that Calderon is the answer and that Lowry was a misstep.

            Thanks
            +1

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            • #51
              pillowmint wrote: View Post
              Jesus H Mr. Christie!

              What kool-aid are people drinking, I want in!

              This is what makes Toronto fans so crazy, one minute we love our team the next we hate. Same with the players. What nonsense.

              Let me clear things up. Lowry is a solid solid PG, and definately worth putting in as our starter. If you want to be stat geeks, check out Hollingers PER, explains a lot.

              If I could trade Calderon, I would. Especially if a high value player could be in got in return, if not then keep him.

              I'm glad he had a great game, I'm glad we won, but let's not forget that we still suck...sorry to be the hope dasher. What's worse is whether or not this turns into another classic 30-52, 34-48, 29-53, season. In which case we'll have no pick...awesome.

              Calderon is not a starter, if he was we could have traded him earlier for something....it never happened.

              Can we get back to normal, let's continue to dislike this season (despite the exciting win) until they at least get to .500, and stop thinking that Calderon is the answer and that Lowry was a misstep.

              Thanks
              I agree with pretty much everything you said here. I'm a Calderon fan (I have a bias for Raptors player as there is only one that I don't like) but honestly, people are really fickle here. The way I see it, Calderon isn't resigning here unless he's getting overpaid. If he wanted to stay for a good price, I'd say we should keep him. The Raptor's strongest position is point guard for a reason but at the same time, all implication is that he wants to leave. Can he maintain this level of play? If I'm being honest, I'd like to say yes, but the answer is most likely no (given that we have seen his play).

              Especially if people really do think that Lowry is the problem (given when you compare both player's current positions in PER (Lowry at 6th vs Calderon at 24) for PGs. Or taking all players into account (33 for Lowry vs 97 for Calderon)..for what its worth, the only other Raptor in the top 50 is Ed Davis at 27.

              In terms of whats wrong with the Raptors...the problem ISN'T at PG.
              "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
              "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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              • #52
                i think this draft is the best draft to lose a pick!
                The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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                • #53
                  enlightenment wrote: View Post
                  i think this draft is the best draft to lose a pick!
                  Random but, I agree. Other than Shabazz the rest of the top3 are most likely to be centers.
                  @Chr1st1anL

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                  • #54
                    I'm sticking with Jose. Your true, traditional pass-first point guard. Not many teams left in the league that has one... Rondo, Paul, Nash and Kidd are only ones I can name.
                    Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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                    • #55
                      Craiger wrote: View Post
                      ....In about 20 - 25 games Jose will qualify for some all-time rankings (15 000 min played) where he'll rank 7th in all time assist%. The names ahead of him - John Stockton, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Magic Johnson, Brevin Knight. The names behind him - Mark Jackson, Jason Kidd, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Porter, Isaih Thomas. Of those names listed none have a better assist:to ratio than Jose, with Chris Paul being the closest behind him...You can call Jose 'dribbles' all you like, but the guy is one of the best play makers in the history of the game. That doesn't mean he doesn't have his weaknesses but this guy is a legit NBA starter thats gone undervalued by fans and this organization for the last 4 years.
                      A lot of info there I didn't realize, and he didn't get into the league until he was 24. always loved and valued his play. He's got weaknesses, but they have been more visible on the teams that BC has constructed than they would have been on teams with decent C and PF.

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                      • #56
                        I don't think anyone doubts what Jose can do on offense. He's a good distributor, can hit open shots, protects the ball and manages the game well, but what's always been his achiles heel is his defense. If he could play D then he would be very comparable to J. Kidd, imo, and there would be no doubts as to whether he is a worthy starter or not.

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                        • #57
                          Maybe unrelated but I think "Kendall Marshall" will be something special when he gets some legit NBA time.

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                          • #58
                            Craiger wrote: View Post
                            Calderon is clearly more than a 'back up'. The guy proves his mettle time and again. Against Ford, Jack and now Lowry. He shows it every time the trade talks come up.

                            In about 20 - 25 games Jose will qualify for some all-time rankings (15 000 min played) where he'll rank 7th in all time assist%. The names ahead of him - John Stockton, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Magic Johnson, Brevin Knight. The names behind him - Mark Jackson, Jason Kidd, Kevin Johnson, Tim Hardaway, Kevin Porter, Isaih Thomas. Of those names listed none have a better assist:to ratio than Jose, with Chris Paul being the closest behind him.


                            You can call Jose 'dribbles' all you like, but the guy is one of the best play makers in the history of the game. That doesn't mean he doesn't have his weaknesses but this guy is a legit NBA starter thats gone undervalued by fans and this organization for the last 4 years.
                            LOL Are you being serious?! So what has all those stats you just listed for Dribbles gotten us in terms of wins and playoff berths?!....0.o exactly stop your dick riding and look at the bigger picture ...and he is just an over-paid back up Lowry would feast on this guy any day of the week...One question for you why can't he produce like this coming of the bench?!0.o because he sucks and is a sulk.... his revolving door defense and timid "protect my stats plays" are obviously being over looked by you. and no he is not a legit starting guard ask Kenny The Jet Smith http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA8ausJsl78 0.o

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                            • #59
                              Lowry hasn't feasted on anybody since the first few games. Injuries aside, I am getting the feeling that he and the Raptors are not such a good fit. He's a solid player, he would look good in a Lakers uniform.

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                              • #60
                                Everyone hating on joses lack of a winning record is forgetting to look at other constants. Being the players around him, hes played with Finesse big men his entire tenure as a raptor and now that he has some good pick and roll partners and good backcourt defense he is obviously going to play some of the best basketball of his career. Jose is not the problem. Bargnani and Bosh were.

                                I will say that trading Jose is probably the best action going forward buy only if there is significant value coming back. Jose may not be the solution for this team , but frankly if Jose isnt, then neither is Lowry.

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