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The case for Rudy Gay to the Raptors: Heisley speaks to rumours (277)

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  • planetmars wrote: View Post
    A Memphis fan-site perspective on trading Gay:
    http://www.3sob.com/2012/june-2012/w...rudy-gay/3641/

    Some fans seem to be on board with trading Gay to Toronto for some of our pieces. This could end up being a win-win for both clubs and fans. Of course not all fans are in agreement.
    Yeah its a interesting viewpoint. I especially agree with this point:

    Third, I’m not a big fan of the small forward. To me, the small forward is the easiest position in the NBA to skimp on. Championship teams are traditionally built around a low post/scoring guard combination and most teams just fill the small forward position with a glue guy (Bruce Bowen/Shane Battier/etc.) and move on. You can find a 3-point shooter/defender and plug them in pretty easily. The only time a small forward is worth investing in is if you have a top 10 player (LeBron/Carmelo/Paul Pierce/etc.). The second tier small forwards are Fools’ Gold (Rudy Gay, Tayshaun Prince, Rashard Lewis). Teams see enough potential that they end up overpaying at the one position that can be sacrificed. What the Grizzlies truly need is a defense first small forward and a shooting guard that can spread the floor/create his own shot if needed. The Grizz have neither. Rudy Gay is a shoot first small forward and Tony Allen is, well, Tony Allen.
    I think a upper tier scoring guard is more important than a elite wing player.
    @sweatpantsjer

    Comment


    • Take it with a grain of salt, but Heisley denies the Grizzlies are shopping Gay.

      http://tracking.si.com/2012/06/08/ru...ies-nba-trade/

      It is an important distinction that he's not saying they won't trade him, only that they aren't shopping him. This could be
      a) an attempt to drive up the market
      b) an attempt to cool the rumours for a while
      c) the truth
      Last edited by octothorp; Fri Jun 8, 2012, 02:56 PM.

      Comment


      • ceez wrote: View Post
        I think a upper tier scoring guard is more important than a elite wing player.
        I do as well.. but where are we going to find an upper tier scoring guard? This draft class most likely doesn't have one (Beal although might be a good player, won't be an elite guard IMO).

        Harden is a possibility but to get Harden away from OKC it would take max money, IMO. Is Harden a better investment than Gay, knowing that Gay is a realistic possibility now, and Harden could be a pipe dream?

        I'm not sure I'd even take a healthy Eric Gordon over Gay. Gordon still isn't a proven commodity for me especially since he hasn't played enough games in his career yet.

        Outside of Harden and Gordon I don't realistically see any other possibilities unless we get the #1 or #2 pick next year and draft a guy like Shabazz Muhammad. But that's assuming he declares and is not a dud in college, and would also mean we try and tank in another year (under Colangelo's final year, that's not happening), or we make a trade now for a potential #1 pick next year (and who's not going to protect their pick?)

        Bottom line for me is that ideally an elite guard is better than an elite wing, but beggars can't be choosers.

        Comment


        • octothorp wrote: View Post
          Take it with a grain of salt, but Heisley denies the Grizzlies are shopping Gay.

          http://tracking.si.com/2012/06/08/ru...ies-nba-trade/

          It is an important distinction that he's not saying they won't trade him, only that they aren't shopping him. This could be
          a) an attempt to drive up the market
          b) an attempt to cool the rumours for a while
          c) the truth
          He also said the Grizzlies weren't moving

          Comment


          • planetmars wrote: View Post
            I do as well.. but where are we going to find an upper tier scoring guard? This draft class most likely doesn't have one (Beal although might be a good player, won't be an elite guard IMO).

            Harden is a possibility but to get Harden away from OKC it would take max money, IMO. Is Harden a better investment than Gay, knowing that Gay is a realistic possibility now, and Harden could be a pipe dream?

            I'm not sure I'd even take a healthy Eric Gordon over Gay. Gordon still isn't a proven commodity for me especially since he hasn't played enough games in his career yet.

            Outside of Harden and Gordon I don't realistically see any other possibilities unless we get the #1 or #2 pick next year and draft a guy like Shabazz Muhammad. But that's assuming he declares and is not a dud in college, and would also mean we try and tank in another year (under Colangelo's final year, that's not happening), or we make a trade now for a potential #1 pick next year (and who's not going to protect their pick?)

            Bottom line for me is that ideally an elite guard is better than an elite wing, but beggars can't be choosers.
            Toronto will not have max money to offer unless they renounce Calderon, DeRozan, and Johnson. Even then, would he come? And would OKC not match?

            Comment


            • LBF wrote: View Post
              it's like the you scratch my back, i scratch yours. Everybody wants something.

              it's like that one trade in money ball. Where billy beane asks the guy to fill his pop machine for a year.

              I do this for you know if you take diop and the big payoff comes later.
              Nobody in their right mind would take Jordan at his word. He is the king of pull out - and I'm not talking birth control.

              Comment


              • Reportedly, Toronto, Golden State, Brooklyn, Orlando and Charlotte are among the teams that contacted the Griz about acquiring Gay. Heisley acknowledged that no player on the roster can be deemed “untouchable.” But he insisted that it would take an extraordinary offer, which includes a star player clearly better than Gay, to pique the Grizzlies’ interest.

                Heisley said he’s communicated that sentiment to general manager Chris Wallace.

                “Yes, people have called us to ask about Rudy,” Heisley said. “Obviously, we need to seriously look at strengthening the team. But Rudy is the only player we have who can get his shot any time and any place on the floor. You can’t afford to get rid of him and not bring in somebody who can do more. I think Chris has to be open-minded about everybody on the roster. But I don’t know how else I can say this: There is no plan to trade Rudy Gay.”

                http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...D=happeningnow
                I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

                But if he is telling the truth, kiss Gay to the Raptors good bye.

                *EDIT*

                A little more thinking and here is why I don't buy it:

                He says in the above article the goal is to win a championship:

                “Our plan was always to protect the core. I’ve the core for four years,” Heisley said. “If we ever decide to do something it won’t be because of salary. We’re going to build a team around this core group. We understand Rudy’s salary. We understood it when we gave it to him. We’re not looking to cut salary. We’re looking to try and win a championship.”
                But he also said they weren't in the business of luxury tax:

                "I remember I went nine years without winning a playoff game. I'd like to have more, but I feel pretty good about this team. I'm looking at the big picture."

                Heisley said it's too soon to predict what moves, if any, that the team will make to improve the roster.

                He did emphasize, though, that the franchise isn't in position to add much salary.

                The Griz have big contracts committed to Rudy Gay, Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol. They have Mike Conley on a modest long-term deal, and will have to make similar tough decisions on several free agents this summer.

                "We can't be in the luxury tax business," Heisley said. "We've got to make some financial decisions. That's without question.

                http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...y/?partner=RSS
                One of these quotes is bullsh!t.

                Keeping the same team they have now with no true backup C or proven backup PG makes them a luxury tax team (qualifying offers to Mayo, Arthur, Speights). Maybe Selby is the backup PG but he is still just 21 and barely played his rookie year. That still leaves them without a backup C and a luxury tax team.

                I think he made the comments to increase the offers.
                Last edited by mcHAPPY; Fri Jun 8, 2012, 03:53 PM.

                Comment


                • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  Nobody in their right mind would take Jordan at his word. He is the king of pull out - and I'm not talking birth control.
                  Haha...for a guy who hits the tables frequently and doesn't play a round of golf unless there is pretty hefty bet going he certainly seems to get cold feet with moving players/decision making issues requiring onions.

                  Comment


                  • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

                    But if he is telling the truth, kiss Gay to the Raptors good bye.
                    This has to be one of the more assinine quotes from an owner...."includes a star player clearly better than Gay". Now. why would another team do that? Is it because Gay has such a cap friendly contract?

                    Comment


                    • Bendit wrote: View Post
                      This has to be one of the more assinine quotes from an owner...."includes a star player clearly better than Gay". Now. why would another team do that? Is it because Gay has such a cap friendly contract?
                      Good point. This comment can also be added to my *EDIT* in 277.

                      Comment


                      • This isn't really surprising. Gay to the Raps for any of the mentioned packages is more of a pipe dream than a realistic one. It's hard to think the Grizz would rather pay out big money to OJ Mayo than keep Gay alone, especially the way he played in his first playoff series. At times being the only Grizzly that could pull a made basket out of thin air.

                        I like OJ and all, but if the Grizz have to pick, OJ is out the door. The Raps really have no assets that would help the Grizz go deeper into the playoffs.

                        Iguodala is more realistic, maybe Josh Smith (though I don't know if teams actually want him, with his jumpshot happy-self), there's not a ton of options this year with SF's. Batum will be retained, any good young SF will cost more than the Raps realistically have to offer.

                        Comment


                        • SKD wrote: View Post
                          This isn't really surprising. Gay to the Raps for any of the mentioned packages is more of a pipe dream than a realistic one. It's hard to think the Grizz would rather pay out big money to OJ Mayo than keep Gay alone, especially the way he played in his first playoff series. At times being the only Grizzly that could pull a made basket out of thin air.

                          I like OJ and all, but if the Grizz have to pick, OJ is out the door. The Raps really have no assets that would help the Grizz go deeper into the playoffs.

                          Iguodala is more realistic, maybe Josh Smith (though I don't know if teams actually want him, with his jumpshot happy-self), there's not a ton of options this year with SF's. Batum will be retained, any good young SF will cost more than the Raps realistically have to offer.
                          What they do with the cap space created by trading Gay to the Raptors is the assets that would help the Grizz go deeper in the playoffs.

                          Comment


                          • Without checking the hard numbers, I'm guessing that between Randolph who's at 15ish mill/yr, Gasol at 10+mill, then Conley at 10ish/yr, Mayo looking for a similar payout, they're basically at the soft cap threshold without Gay. So basically they either don't sign Mayo and gain another player this year or keep Mayo and have no real softcap room left.

                            Truth be told there's not many good SG/SF's out there that would be a better option than Mayo for their system. And most ala Gordon/Batum are both RFA.

                            Cap space could help, but at this point, they'd be better off re-signing Mayo and moving him for quality talent then ridding themselves of Gay. As was mentioned in a yahoo article I read, this isn't a team really on the market for draft picks, as they're looking to go into the 2nd round and beyond with their current core.

                            It's hard to see them moving Gay as a salary dump, and any actual players we have don't really have the polished skills they'd want to push them further.

                            Comment


                            • SKD wrote: View Post
                              Without checking the hard numbers, I'm guessing that between Randolph who's at 15ish mill/yr, Gasol at 10+mill, then Conley at 10ish/yr, Mayo looking for a similar payout, they're basically at the soft cap threshold without Gay. So basically they either don't sign Mayo and gain another player this year or keep Mayo and have no real softcap room left.

                              Truth be told there's not many good SG/SF's out there that would be a better option than Mayo for their system. And most ala Gordon/Batum are both RFA.

                              Cap space could help, but at this point, they'd be better off re-signing Mayo and moving him for quality talent then ridding themselves of Gay. As was mentioned in a yahoo article I read, this isn't a team really on the market for draft picks, as they're looking to go into the 2nd round and beyond with their current core.

                              It's hard to see them moving Gay as a salary dump, and any actual players we have don't really have the polished skills they'd want to push them further.
                              Go look at the hard numbers and qualifying offers.

                              http://www.hoopsworld.com/memphis-grizzlies-team-salary

                              Then remember Heisley said they would not pay luxury tax.

                              Comment


                              • So I did. And if they re-sign Arthur, Speights and Mayo at their qualifying offers, which would be best case scenario for the Grizz salary wise, they're still 16-17 mill over the soft cap. Losing Gay just puts them borderline at the cap, not actually giving them real live cap space to play with (as in enough money to sign an impact player).

                                Chances are they re-sign at least Speights and Arthur because they'd be silly not to. Mayo they need coming off the bench, but will probably have to pay a bit more if they want to keep him, and a lot more money will go his way if Gay is moved, as he'll be in a better situation leverage wise.

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