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  • #16
    Nilanka wrote: View Post
    O'Neal was well past his prime, and was barely producing when we acquired him. We can't say the same about Smith or Gay. Besides, I only mentioned these players as an example strategy in getting off the dreaded "treadmill".


    Quit what rebuild? Collecting a bunch of flawed players and selling us on "potential"?

    Waiting for DeRozan and Davis to morph into Kobe and Gasol doesn't look like a successful strategy. I'd be willing to trade everyone on the roster minus Lowry and Jonas (and perhaps Ross).
    Okay, I'm open to trade anybody too, but for who, and for what? As you said yourself, the 3 players you mentioned are NOT "franchise" level players. So any one might make the team better, but good enough to spend all that money on? You said any 2 could elevate the team to top 4 seed. I'm not sure that's true, but first we need to know what the team gives up to have the privilege of overpaying them and taking up 2/3 of our cap space. As I asked, if you exclude JV, Lowry, Ross, who do you think the team has left that could make any two of those trades happen? Seriously, if it's not possible, we may as well talk about how well the team would do if we got Irving, Paul George, and that rookie I here about, Davis.

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    • #17
      p00ka wrote: View Post
      Okay, I'm open to trade anybody too, but for who, and for what? As you said yourself, the 3 players you mentioned are NOT "franchise" level players. So any one might make the team better, but good enough to spend all that money on? You said any 2 could elevate the team to top 4 seed. I'm not sure that's true, but first we need to know what the team gives up to have the privilege of overpaying them and taking up 2/3 of our cap space. As I asked, if you exclude JV, Lowry, Ross, who do you think the team has left that could make any two of those trades happen? Seriously, if it's not possible, we may as well talk about how well the team would do if we got Irving, Paul George, and that rookie I here about, Davis.
      I obviously don't know for sure, but I would assume that any combination of Calderon, DeRozan, Bargnani, Davis, Amir, Fields would pique some interest in a potential 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 deal.

      Irving, George, etc. are basically "untouchables"....but that doesn't mean great players aren't available.

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      • #18
        Nilanka wrote: View Post
        I obviously don't know for sure, but I would assume that any combination of Calderon, DeRozan, Bargnani, Davis, Amir, Fields would pique some interest in a potential 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 deal.

        Irving, George, etc. are basically "untouchables"....but that doesn't mean great players aren't available.
        As I've already said, I may disagree about how "great players" some 2 man combination of your suggested Pau, Gay, JSmoove would be for the Raps, but that aside, may I ask again:

        What combinations of 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 deals do you think would be reasonable to "assume" are achievable in trades for two of these players, and why does it make sense to both teams, given contracts, direction of teams, etc..

        Considering the salaries and contract situations (eg. Smith), and the cost of players that I think it would take to get 2 of these guys, I don't like the idea at all, but you seem to think this is a good approach, and that they can be obtained for what you otherwise think are low value players, yet somehow think these other teams are going to value them. Okay, so pick even one combination of 2 of those "great players" and suggest which combinations of Raps players could land those two.

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        • #19
          I'm fully willing to admit that I'm too lazy to play around with ESPN's trade machine to find salary combinations that work. But I'll close by saying that just because I consider players to be of "lower value", that doesn't mean there isn't somebody out there who sees potential in them.

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          • #20
            If we trade for Josh Smith, will he still be an RFA? Meaning the Raptors can match any offer he gets next season?

            Jose and Bargnani for Pau
            Demar and Amir for Smith

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            • #21
              TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
              If we trade for Josh Smith, will he still be an RFA? Meaning the Raptors can match any offer he gets next season?

              Jose and Bargnani for Pau
              Demar and Amir for Smith
              Josh Smith is unrestricted.

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              • #22
                Nilanka wrote: View Post
                Josh Smith is unrestricted.
                Thanks.

                So if next season the Raps offer this much and ATL decides to match, he doesnt necessarily have to go back to ATL?

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                • #23
                  TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                  Thanks.

                  So if next season the Raps offer this much and ATL decides to match, he doesnt necessarily have to go back to ATL?
                  Correct. He's free to go where ever he wants, for whatever salary he wants.

                  So if we trade for him this season, we could lose him this summer for nothing.

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                  • #24
                    Nilanka wrote: View Post
                    Correct. He's free to go where ever he wants, for whatever salary he wants.

                    So if we trade for him this season, we could lose him this summer for nothing.
                    If we acquire him, can't we offer him to sign a max extension?

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                    • #25
                      Sure but whether this would be wise is still open to debate.

                      I for one, would not offer him a max contract.

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                      • #26
                        TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                        If we acquire him, can't we offer him to sign a max extension?
                        We could offer, but he doesn't have to accept the offer.

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                        • #27
                          I don't think we qualify as a tread mill team. We have okay-good financial flexibility, and a bunch of young players that could amount to something. However, I could be argued that building around bosh was a recipe for the treadmill.
                          "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee Dec. 2014

                          "I guess I got a little carried away there" ~ ezzbee Apr. 2015

                          "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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                          • #28
                            ezz_bee wrote: View Post
                            I don't think we qualify as a tread mill team. We have okay-good financial flexibility, and a bunch of young players that could amount to something. However, I could be argued that building around bosh was a recipe for the treadmill.
                            I would have agreed with you 100% at the start of the season, but I worry that the big contract handed to DeRozan is a sign that once again BC is building around a false-star player (Bosh, Bargnani and now DeRozan). If DeRozan becomes the face of the franchise and is hailed as a cornerstone to build around, then I think this team will be stuck on the playoff bubble treadmill for the next few years. I'm worried the average Raptors fan will drink the BC kool-aid and buy into the DeRozan hype... we already see quite a bit of it around these parts!

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