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Mired in Monotony: Seven Teams in a Rut (Raptors Included)

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  • #31
    Xixak wrote: View Post
    In every draft there are those players that become stars who are not considered sure-fire stars. You don't get these players by "playing it safe" you get them by gambling on potential. Yes sometimes you get burned and end up with a bust. But I'd prefer the chance of getting a star type player than drafting a guy like Ross who atm looks like his ceiling is Martell Webster.
    Picking Ross was the definition of "gambling on potential". Just saying.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    • #32
      jimmie wrote: View Post
      Picking Ross was the definition of "gambling on potential". Just saying.
      No it wasn't. The only reason we even picked him is because we were planning to go all in on Nash and wanted to add more athleticism and shooting to the roster.

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      • #33
        Xixak wrote: View Post
        Drummond didn't fall hard and he didn't have bust written all over him. He was a top 10 pick and Ross wasn't. He was considered the better prospect at the time (same goes for Lamb and Rivers).
        Drummond was once considered a top-3 pick, so in that case, he did fall hard.

        But either way, mock drafts are just the opinions of Chad Ford, Alex Kennedy, etc. Who's to say they're opinions are more credible than Colangelo (who obviously had his own mock draft board)?

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        • #34
          Xixak wrote: View Post
          No it wasn't. The only reason we even picked him is because we were planning to go all in on Nash and wanted to add more athleticism and shooting to the roster.
          Still a gamble, by your own definition. He was roundly projected to go 5-10 picks lower than he actually went. Toronto gambled that he would be a legit 3-and-D threat. On that, the jury is most definitely still out.
          Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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          • #35
            jimmie wrote: View Post
            Still a gamble, by your own definition. He was roundly projected to go 5-10 picks lower than he actually went. Toronto gambled that he would be a legit 3-and-D threat. On that, the jury is most definitely still out.
            It definitely is. That having been said: if you could get Danny Green (and Toronto was basically hoping that Ross would become Danny Green) with a #8 pick, most of the time that's a no-brainer. Shit, if San Antonio had Ross he'd probably be Danny Green but better at this point!

            Drummond was widely considered as a risky pick at the time: it's why he slid to 9th. That doesn't mean teams were necessarily wrong to skip him because he turned out to be a smash - sometimes that happens, it's the draft. I think Toronto's pick of Ross was your classic "team hopes for best-case scenario" and since the best-case scenario in this instance was relatively modest (i.e. a Danny Green clone) they fooled themselves into thinking it was more likely or achievable.

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            • #36
              magoon wrote: View Post
              It definitely is. That having been said: if you could get Danny Green (and Toronto was basically hoping that Ross would become Danny Green) with a #8 pick, most of the time that's a no-brainer. Shit, if San Antonio had Ross he'd probably be Danny Green but better at this point!

              Drummond was widely considered as a risky pick at the time: it's why he slid to 9th. That doesn't mean teams were necessarily wrong to skip him because he turned out to be a smash - sometimes that happens, it's the draft. I think Toronto's pick of Ross was your classic "team hopes for best-case scenario" and since the best-case scenario in this instance was relatively modest (i.e. a Danny Green clone) they fooled themselves into thinking it was more likely or achievable.
              Agreed. And Ross could still prove to be a capable Green-type player (not saying he will or won't, just that it's possible). Green was waived by the team that drafted him, and only hooked on with SA after proving himself in the D-league and Europe. He was also a 2nd-round pick, however, further proving the transient nature of quality/career potential in terms of where a player is drafted.
              Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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              • #37
                Xixak wrote: View Post
                In every draft there are those players that become stars who are not considered sure-fire stars. You don't get these players by "playing it safe" you get them by gambling on potential. Yes sometimes you get burned and end up with a bust. But I'd prefer the chance of getting a star type player than drafting a guy like Ross who atm looks like his ceiling is Martell Webster.
                The problem is that by that logic, Rivers could have been the "right" pick just as much as Drummond. Some "experts" had Rivers listed as one of the top talents in the draft. Besides, who says picking Ross was "playing it safe"? Had DeRozan gotten injured early last season and Ross got the opportunity to get significant playing time with the team's best players, perhaps we'd be discussing him as a successful "gamble on potential" pick by BC. You can't judge these players after a single season, especially considering the extreme diversity of the situations they played in (ie: Lamb could become a stud in the next season or two, despite barely seeing the court last season). Save the burning desire for instant gratification to other endeavors.

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                • #38
                  Xixak wrote: View Post
                  In every draft there are those players that become stars who are not considered sure-fire stars. You don't get these players by "playing it safe" you get them by gambling on potential. Yes sometimes you get burned and end up with a bust. But I'd prefer the chance of getting a star type player than drafting a guy like Ross who atm looks like his ceiling is Martell Webster.
                  You should look at players who were rookies averaging just under 14 ppg / 36mins and see how good they are now. Who's to say that he doesn't end up like George, Granger or McGrady.

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                  • #39
                    planetmars wrote: View Post
                    You should look at players who were rookies averaging just under 14 ppg / 36mins and see how good they are now. Who's to say that he doesn't end up like George, Granger or McGrady.
                    Yeah except you're ignoring the fact that all of those guys shot the ball way better than Ross, got to the FT Line at a higher clip and contributed in other ways (like rebs and asts) more than Ross did. Additionally TMac was drafted out of high school.

                    Also all of these guys showed a willingness and ability to attack the basket in their first season. Nearly half of Ross' shot attempts were from 3 and he basically never attacked the basket unless he was on the break.

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                    • #40
                      Nilanka wrote: View Post
                      Drummond was once considered a top-3 pick, so in that case, he did fall hard.

                      But either way, mock drafts are just the opinions of Chad Ford, Alex Kennedy, etc. Who's to say they're opinions are more credible than Colangelo (who obviously had his own mock draft board)?
                      This is exactly it. I listened to a Bill Simmons podcast with Chad Ford a couple days before the draft (two guys I really like, albeit for different reasons) because I was so curious to see what they thought about Bennett..... and they literally didn't mention him in an hour and fifteen other than to lump him in with those "should be a top-6 pick" guys. There's a lot of things going on in those couple minutes before a name is called, and probably a lot of deals/plans that fall through.

                      Now I'm not defending the Ross pick at all because although he has the makeup of a good player there was definitely a Ben Wallace-type right behind him. I'm not upset so much about missing out on Drummond because 7 other teams passed on him too. I just don't think Ross has shown anything that proves he was worth a gamble.

                      ....but again, we've seen tons of complaints that Derozan was granted the starting position by default and it cost our team a bunch of wins in the early stages of his career. Ross has only been around one year, plenty of time yet to carve a niche.
                      Last edited by Mundy; Tue Aug 13, 2013, 02:23 PM.
                      "This just in........ THE RAPTORS ARE AMAZING!"

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                      • #41
                        magoon wrote: View Post
                        Shit, if San Antonio had Ross he'd probably be Danny Green but better at this point!
                        That's the most depressing part! TL talks about changing the culture/re-branding/do whatever - I truly hope for a quick (2-3 years?!) turn-around of this whole organization!

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                        • #42
                          Terrence Ross will play better with more talent around him.
                          @Chr1st1anL

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                          • #43
                            Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                            Terrence Ross will play better with more talent around him.
                            So would DeRozan

                            ...

                            So would basically any player in the NBA...

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                            • #44
                              Xixak wrote: View Post
                              So would DeRozan

                              ...

                              So would basically any player in the NBA...
                              Relax all I'm saying is he is still able to be a productive player for this team.
                              @Chr1st1anL

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                              • #45
                                Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                                Well it could have been worse imagine if we drafted Rivers.... Ross is t least tradeable.
                                I still like Rivers better than Ross. If not for the huge logjam the Pelicans now have, Rivers is up for a good year.

                                I don't see how Ross is any more valuable than Rivers at this point, especially when comparing the two in Vegas. And don't give me this bull about how summer league doesn't matter, because it does. Ross was supposed to show what he can do against lesser competition, and he didn't even play decent, let alone playing like a star.
                                Twitter - @thekid_it

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