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Mired in Monotony: Seven Teams in a Rut (Raptors Included)

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  • #16
    In fact the Ross draft pick is exactly what we need to reverse if we want to follow one of those styles of building a good team

    We took Ross in order to fill a need with his percieved ability to shoot threes and defend. This was to fit into our our short sighted plan to get better year over year and to try and make it into the last playoff spot type mentality. If we were smart we would have taken Drummond who had far more obvious value regardless of Val and how they fit together because we could eventually use one in a trade to aquire an actual star player, preferably before he signs a 20 million per year deal a la Harden to Houston

    That is just one more, now looking massive, mistake that was based on some silly "plan" that didnt pay off...again
    Change the name...Give this city and this country something we can be PROUD of... something we can EMBRACE... something that REPRESENTS us... Please MLSE any name except Raptors...anything, please?

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    • #17
      aaron.in.toronto wrote: View Post
      In fact the Ross draft pick is exactly what we need to reverse if we want to follow one of those styles of building a good team

      We took Ross in order to fill a need with his percieved ability to shoot threes and defend. This was to fit into our our short sighted plan to get better year over year and to try and make it into the last playoff spot type mentality. If we were smart we would have taken Drummond who had far more obvious value regardless of Val and how they fit together because we could eventually use one in a trade to aquire an actual star player, preferably before he signs a 20 million per year deal a la Harden to Houston

      That is just one more, now looking massive, mistake that was based on some silly "plan" that didnt pay off...again
      Exactly! That is what many posters don't understand. It doesn't matter if we blow it up or not. If we take someone like Ross over someone like Drummond.....we will continue to be shitty (some here call it mediocre).....

      Everytime i hear the "We had JV" stupidity, it makes me shudder. This is the mistake that was made. Simple! A Talent like Ross can be replaced by a Cory Brewer or Danny Green or someone else....a talent like Drummond may go on to dominate on the glass and defensively WHILE dunking any and everything around the basket.

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      • #18
        aaron.in.toronto wrote: View Post
        Drafting a star (and as many sidekicks as possible) and using picks and players to "aquire" one are both based around being out of the playoffs (on purpose folks, not like the Raptors who try every trick in the book to make it and still miss, acquiring useless picks, that they still screw up, T Ross vs Drummond...) for multiple years.
        I hadn't realized the 07 Celtics were losing on purpose with 24M tied into Wally Z and Theo Ratliff, if Pierce doesn't miss half the season they're in 8th-10th place in the East. Ditto for the Rockets, who kept finishing just outside or just inside the playoffs.

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        • #19
          Xixak wrote: View Post
          I hadn't realized the 07 Celtics were losing on purpose with 24M tied into Wally Z and Theo Ratliff, if Pierce doesn't miss half the season they're in 8th-10th place in the East. Ditto for the Rockets, who kept finishing just outside or just inside the playoffs.
          You mean the Ratliff who played a total of 44 minutes that year for Boston, and a Wally Szczerbiak who was one of the costs to make things work in a deal for first round pick from Minny?

          Yeah, they were losing on purpose.

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          • #20
            Craiger wrote: View Post
            You mean the Ratliff who played a total of 44 minutes that year for Boston, and a Wally Szczerbiak who was one of the costs to make things work in a deal for first round pick from Minny?

            Yeah, they were losing on purpose.
            If their plan that season was to lose and rebuild then why did they trade the #7 pick on draft night for one of the best defensive bigs in the league at the time in Ratliff? I'm confused...

            Why did they trade a bunch of young and crappy players for Wally Z who was averaging close to 20ppg at the time?

            The Celtics lost by accident that year due to injuries.
            Last edited by Xixak; Tue Aug 13, 2013, 11:01 AM.

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            • #21
              Xixak wrote: View Post
              If their plan that season was to lose and rebuild then why did they trade the #7 pick on draft night for one of the best defensive bigs in the league at the time in Ratliff? I'm confused...

              Why did they trade a bunch of young and crappy players for Wally Z who was averaging close to 20ppg at the time?

              The Celtics lost by accident that year due to injuries.
              You are confused because you are convincing yourself that somehow these guys were (or would have) helped the Celtics win games. Why though I really don't know. I doubt anyone will convince you otherwise at this point

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              • #22
                special1 wrote: View Post
                Exactly! That is what many posters don't understand. It doesn't matter if we blow it up or not. If we take someone like Ross over someone like Drummond.....we will continue to be shitty (some here call it mediocre).....

                Everytime i hear the "We had JV" stupidity, it makes me shudder. This is the mistake that was made. Simple! A Talent like Ross can be replaced by a Cory Brewer or Danny Green or someone else....a talent like Drummond may go on to dominate on the glass and defensively WHILE dunking any and everything around the basket.
                There is a reason why Drummond fell so hard in the draft. He had bust written all over him. How would you feel if Drummond turned into Thabeet or Alabi?

                He's working out for Detroit, but he definitely wasn't a sure thing anymore coming out of college.

                And Drummond needs a lot of development. Could the Raptors coaches give him time to develop when they want to also spend more time on JV? If they took him as an asset could they easily flip him if he didn't show his potential?

                Ross is not a difference maker and may turn into a bust as well.. but he was not a bad pick.. I can't think of anyone that was drafted after Drummond that is doing well. Maybe Henson but we already had Davis.

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                • #23
                  planetmars wrote: View Post
                  There is a reason why Drummond fell so hard in the draft. He had bust written all over him. How would you feel if Drummond turned into Thabeet or Alabi?

                  He's working out for Detroit, but he definitely wasn't a sure thing anymore coming out of college.

                  And Drummond needs a lot of development. Could the Raptors coaches give him time to develop when they want to also spend more time on JV? If they took him as an asset could they easily flip him if he didn't show his potential?

                  Ross is not a difference maker and may turn into a bust as well.. but he was not a bad pick.. I can't think of anyone that was drafted after Drummond that is doing well. Maybe Henson but we already had Davis.
                  In the minds of some, it's a foregone conclusion that Drummond is the next Howard, while Ross is the next Gerald Green.

                  Odds are in 5 years, both players will be somewhat in the middle of the pack (neither studs, nor scrubs...but useful rotation players).

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                  • #24
                    planetmars wrote: View Post
                    There is a reason why Drummond fell so hard in the draft. He had bust written all over him. How would you feel if Drummond turned into Thabeet or Alabi?

                    He's working out for Detroit, but he definitely wasn't a sure thing anymore coming out of college.

                    And Drummond needs a lot of development. Could the Raptors coaches give him time to develop when they want to also spend more time on JV? If they took him as an asset could they easily flip him if he didn't show his potential?

                    Ross is not a difference maker and may turn into a bust as well.. but he was not a bad pick.. I can't think of anyone that was drafted after Drummond that is doing well. Maybe Henson but we already had Davis.
                    Stop.

                    We reached on Ross, period end of story. Nobody had him going that high especially considering we already had DeMar at 2.

                    http://nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft ----> Had us taking Drummond 8th. Ross going 14th

                    http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/ ----> Had us taking Rivers 8th. Drummond going 9th, Ross 14th

                    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...raft-version-8 ------> Ford has us taking Lillard at 8. Drummond going 6th. Ross 13th.


                    Ross was considered a late lottery pick, we took him in the mid-lottery. Drummond was supposed to go anywhere from 6-9

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                    • #25
                      Xixak wrote: View Post
                      Stop.

                      We reached on Ross, period end of story. Nobody had him going that high especially considering we already had DeMar at 2.

                      http://nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft ----> Had us taking Drummond 8th. Ross going 14th

                      http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/ ----> Had us taking Rivers 8th. Drummond going 9th, Ross 14th

                      http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft...raft-version-8 ------> Ford has us taking Lillard at 8. Drummond going 6th. Ross 13th.


                      Ross was considered a late lottery pick, we took him in the mid-lottery. Drummond was supposed to go anywhere from 6-9
                      Right.. so Drummond was not really considered a top talent in the draft (6th best by those mock drafts does not make him elite). Imagine if the Raptors took Rivers? Now that would have been a laugher.

                      So why was it such a horrible move for Toronto to take a guy they liked at 8 instead of a guy that had motivation issues? BC for all his faults drafted pretty well. May never have knocked one out of the park but was fairly close with his assessments.

                      I don't think Drummond is going to be a franchise altering talent. He may not have had time to show his potential to turn him into an asset worthy of guys like Harden. Ross may not be as good and even though he was a safe pick, he was not a bad pick.. at least not yet.

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                      • #26
                        Not sure how valuable an exercise it is to reference mock drafts to current (still unproven) players. After all, one could argue that the mocks were all wrong and that Lillard should've been the consensus 1st pick.

                        It's just too early to draw any conclusions on these young players.

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                        • #27
                          planetmars wrote: View Post
                          Right.. so Drummond was not really considered a top talent in the draft (6th best by those mock drafts does not make him elite). Imagine if the Raptors took Rivers? Now that would have been a laugher.

                          So why was it such a horrible move for Toronto to take a guy they liked at 8 instead of a guy that had motivation issues? BC for all his faults drafted pretty well. May never have knocked one out of the park but was fairly close with his assessments.

                          I don't think Drummond is going to be a franchise altering talent. He may not have had time to show his potential to turn him into an asset worthy of guys like Harden. Ross may not be as good and even though he was a safe pick, he was not a bad pick.. at least not yet.
                          In every draft there are those players that become stars who are not considered sure-fire stars. You don't get these players by "playing it safe" you get them by gambling on potential. Yes sometimes you get burned and end up with a bust. But I'd prefer the chance of getting a star type player than drafting a guy like Ross who atm looks like his ceiling is Martell Webster.

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                          • #28
                            Nilanka wrote: View Post
                            Not sure how valuable an exercise it is to reference mock drafts to current (still unproven) players. After all, one could argue that the mocks were all wrong and that Lillard should've been the consensus 1st pick.

                            It's just too early to draw any conclusions on these young players.
                            My bringing that up was in response to this

                            There is a reason why Drummond fell so hard in the draft. He had bust written all over him. How would you feel if Drummond turned into Thabeet or Alabi?
                            Drummond didn't fall hard and he didn't have bust written all over him. He was a top 10 pick and Ross wasn't. He was considered the better prospect at the time (same goes for Lamb and Rivers).

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                            • #29
                              Well it could have been worse imagine if we drafted Rivers.... Ross is t least tradeable.

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                              • #30
                                Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                                Well it could have been worse imagine if we drafted Rivers.... Ross is t least tradeable.
                                This is true, although Rivers was looking a lot better towards the end of the season before he got hurt.

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