What will happen if the Raptors trade for an elite talent?

[golden]

Conversely one could say he cares more about "winning games" than anything else.

Hate him all you want for the douchy way he left but he's one of only a small percentage of all-stars in any sport who in their prime put their numbers on the back burner for a chance to be champion.

You're right. The exact number is 3 (Lebron, Wade & Bosh), of all-stars in their prime who chickened out on competing and pro-actively chose to take the easy path to championships by teaming up and sharing the normal heavy lifting that goes into winning it all. But that debate's been done a million times over...

[stooley]

Interesting comparison with Kobe. I think that both Shaquille and Paul were second banana though.....at least Pau for sure and the fact Shaquille refused to be is what started their downfall.

The one thing I think that a lot of people aren't considering is that any elite player we get will shift our offense from a spread out style to a more ISO focused offense. Good point about Melo and DD sharing the same space though. I still think it could work considering LBJ and Wade share the same space.

I don't know if Shaq was second banana man, cmon. He was unbelievably dominant. More so, perhaps, than any other player has been in his prime.

You're right. The exact number is 3 (Lebron, Wade & Bosh), of all-stars in their prime who chickened out on competing and pro-actively chose to take the easy path to championships by teaming up and sharing the normal heavy lifting that goes into winning it all. But that debate's been done a million times over...

Eh.... Agree to disagree.

I guess Lebron wasn't privileged with being drafted onto a team featuring multiple all stars already.

[JawsGT]

Interesting comparison with Kobe. I think that both Shaquille and Paul were second banana though.....at least Pau for sure and the fact Shaquille refused to be is what started their downfall.

The one thing I think that a lot of people aren't considering is that any elite player we get will shift our offense from a spread out style to a more ISO focused offense. Good point about Melo and DD sharing the same space though. I still think it could work considering LBJ and Wade share the same space.

The Kobe comparison probably isn't the best one, but I used it because they are very similarly dominant offensively. they can score in a variety of ways and can completely take over a game. Melo, I believe, is one of the few players in the league currently that can do this on a consistent basis, as was Kobe. I don't think Shaq was the second banana, Pau certainly was, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make there with the Lakers, only pointing out that a player I feel is similar to Melo (but better IMO) was paired with a dominant inside scoring presence. I just feel Melo would benefit from a similar situation.

Like I said, I think if you are gonna have two dominant offensive players, the best bet is to pair the perimeter guy with a post guy. LBJ is an anomaly, and in no shape, way or form can Melo duplicate what LBJ does on the floor. He does everything everywhere on the court. So it's a little easier to make it work with Wade. I really don't think a Melo/Demar combo would work. Perimeter D would suffer too much in that case as well. Both LBJ and Wade are better defenders than either Melo or Demar. Similar arguments can be made with Durant/Westbrook vs Melo/Demar.

Yes, I agree that an elite player would introduce more ISO to the offense. I would prefer to see this in the post as opposed to adding another wing. We currently do not have enough rebounding or inside scoring, points in the paint, second chance opportunities, etc so adding a guy that can go to work inside seems beneficial. Also, we have seen what an ISO wing player can do to our offense from the Gay experiment, and although Gay isn't as good as Melo, he isn't that far off, and given the way he is performing in SAC, you could probably argue he is as good.

[planetmars]

Melo is not leaving NY. He left Denver (a perennial playoff contender) for NY (a team that basically sucked balls before he got there). So 'wins' probably don't matter to him as much as they would for someone else.

[stooley]

Melo is not leaving NY. He left Denver (a perennial playoff contender) for NY (a team that basically sucked balls before he got there). So 'wins' probably don't matter to him as much as they would for someone else.

Actually the NYK were having a renaissance before Carmelo came along.

Amare and Gallinari were kicking ass for a while there.

[BobLoblaw]

Melo is not leaving NY. He left Denver (a perennial playoff contender) for NY (a team that basically sucked balls before he got there). So 'wins' probably don't matter to him as much as they would for someone else.

I don't think Melo is leaving NY, but there was nothing special about the Nuggets. They kept collecting injury prone players, old players and headcases, and they managed to be pretty decent along the way, but realistically they were contenders just once, that year when Nene got healthy and they traded for an aging Billups. And that's also the year when they traded Marcus Camby away for nothing to save money. So basically Nuggets ownership sabotaged Melo's only "somewhat-contender" team to save money. Got to be frustrating.

[planetmars]

Actually the NYK were having a renaissance before Carmelo came along.

Amare and Gallinari were kicking ass for a while there.

Technically they were 27-26 before the trade.. so maybe not sucking balls but weren't lighting the world on fire either.

[stooley]

Technically they were 27-26 before the trade.. so maybe not sucking balls but weren't lighting the world on fire either.

I'm looking this up right now. When I googled "Denver Nuggets Wikipedia" - the first result was Ty Lawson.

Really, noone cares about the nuggets right now.

[stooley]

Technically they were 27-26 before the trade.. so maybe not sucking balls but weren't lighting the world on fire either.

Hmm, yeah you're right about that. Technically they were 28-26 but my memory deceived me. Looking at their schedule that year, they were insanely streaky. A lot of 5 game win streaks, and a lot of 5 game losing streaks.

[JawsGT]

I think Melo is leaving NY and I think it would be best for the franchise as well. They need to hit the reset button over there. They should have made some moves this season to try and recuperate some picks, and then spend a year or two in the lottery. Now they are a lottery team with no pick...ahh maybe next year if they don't make more bonehead moves and use their cap space to overpay mediocre players.

[BobLoblaw]

Melo is like Kobe in my mind. They are both great scorers and can dominate the perimeter and mid-range. And Kobe had his greatest success paired with a dominant big man, with Shaq and Pau of course. This is really what Melo should be looking for. He is a high usage, volume shooting perimeter player that I think would work best with the same type of player, but one that operates in the post.

IMO, the best thing about Melo is that he can do pretty much anything as far as scoring. If you get a big guy on him, he can take him out to perimeter, he can make 3s, he can take him off the dribble. If you put more of a perimeter defender on him, or a smallish PF, Melo will destroy him on post ups. Melo is an instant mismatch, and his team would have to take advantage of that.

So I'd just prefer to see a balanced team around him. A team that can shoot and give him space in the post, when he has a mismatch down there, but also a team that can penetrate and score inside when he's spacing the floor at the 3pt line.
Also, a lot of defense. He can score for two people, so his team can afford to have a few defense focused players. I liked how the Knicks/Nuggets paired him Tyson Chandler and Marcus Camby, too bad those managements failed at most everything else.

In general, I think you can make him work with pretty much any superstar, but role players have to be picked carefully.

I think of the teams with some cap space, the Bulls are kind of built for him. They don't have quite enough cap space though. But if they could pair a healthy Rose-some 3pt shooter-Butler-Melo-Noah, I imagine it would work pretty well.

[JawsGT]

IMO, the best thing about Melo is that he can do pretty much anything as far as scoring. If you get a big guy on him, he can take him out to perimeter, he can make 3s, he can take him off the dribble. If you put more of a perimeter defender on him, or a smallish PF, Melo will destroy him on post ups. Melo is an instant mismatch, and his team would have to take advantage of that.

So I'd just prefer to see a balanced team around him. A team that can shoot and give him space in the post, when he has a mismatch down there, but also a team that can penetrate and score inside when he's spacing the floor at the 3pt line.
Also, a lot of defense. He can score for two people, so his team can afford to have a few defense focused players. I liked how the Knicks/Nuggets paired him Tyson Chandler and Marcus Camby, too bad those managements failed at most everything else.

In general, I think you can make him work with pretty much any superstar, but role players have to be picked carefully.

I think of the teams with some cap space, the Bulls are kind of built for him. They don't have quite enough cap space though. But if they could pair a healthy Rose-some 3pt shooter-Butler-Melo-Noah, I imagine it would work pretty well.

Well that is one of the interesting things with Melo and the Knicks this year...they seem to be more successful with Melo at the 4. Similar to what the Nets are doing with Pierce. However, I think this will be a limitation in the playoffs. Nonetheless, Melo is exactly as how you describe, a mismatch in most situations. He can provide that if he is playing the 4 or the 3.

But, I would still like to see him in the 3 spot, with one offensively gifted big man and the other big man being a defensive specialist. A defensive SG and a PG that can D and shoot a 3. I just think this is more sustainable throughout a season and subsequent playoffs. Maybe have a good scorer come off the bench as well along with other shooters and defenders. I would really like to see this situation happen just to find out how it would work.

The lineup you propose with CHI is intriguing. He may pair nicely with Rose, especially when surrounded with shooting and defending specialists. But again, this is somewhat similar to the idea I proposed, at least in the sense that your two main scorers are occupying different parts of the floor, Rose being the PG and Melo at the 4 should provide ample spacing and stretch 4's are becoming commonplace in the NBA these days. I'd be interested to see how that would go down.

However, I find it difficult to believe that Melo would work well with say, Harden, Kobe, Durant, or, to add some Raps to the equation, Demar. But in any case, I agree that role players would have to be picked very carefully, regardless of who he is paired up with. He is not an easy player to build around. And style of play would be important to consider too of course. The CHI lineup you proposed could really push the ball and look for ways to run, and having Melo at the 4 would be great for that. But having him at the 3 and paired with a scoring big man might be better suited to a slow paced, half-court style.

[imanshumpert]

Melo actually would fit in nicely here. He's shown a capacity to buy into a ball-movement type offense if he has other capable and reliable scorers on his team (see the 2008-09 season). My issue is he's 30 years old and it'd be a HUGE win-now move.

Would much rather get a star that's around the same age as Lowry/DD or even better Ross/JV.

[Nilanka]

Melo actually would fit in nicely here. He's shown a capacity to buy into a ball-movement type offense if he has other capable and reliable scorers on his team (see the 2008-09 season). My issue is he's 30 years old and it'd be a HUGE win-now move.

Would much rather get a star that's around the same age as Lowry/DD or even better Ross/JV.

Melo doesn't necessarily rely on athleticism. I'd guess he's got at least 3 very strong years left in him.

[imanshumpert]

Melo doesn't necessarily rely on athleticism. I'd guess he's got at least 3 very strong years left in him.

Yeah this is the problem... probably just 3.