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Chad Ford Mock Draft 5.0: Raptors still selecting Jan Vesely

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  • #16
    The fact that he didn't pull his name out leads me to think that perhaps Jonas has been made a promise by someone. If he were to fall to the teens it wouldn't hurt the team drafting him as much to pay their portion of the buyout, it also wouldn't be as risky for that team because they probably weren't expecting to get a player there who could contribute right away to begin with.

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    • #17
      Tim W. wrote: View Post
      I'm surprised Valanciunas is still so high with his buyout situation. Does Ford mention it?

      Also, DraftEXpress' latest has the exact same top 4, so I wonder if things are solidifying. NBA.com's consensus mock draft also has Knight at the #3, but Kanter and Valanciunas going 4 and 5.

      I can't wait for this thing to be done.
      Here's what he says about him:

      Analysis: I've had Kanter in this position since Mock Draft 1.0, but it's time to make the biggest change I've made to our board. From what I gather, the Cavs appear to be cooling a bit on Kanter and warming to Valanciunas.

      Vesely and Leonard are in the picture too and would both be good fits. But this may be the Cavs' only chance to draft a legit 7-foot center. Valanciunas is raw, but he has big upside.

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      • #18
        Arsenalist wrote: View Post
        Here's what he says about him:
        I'd like to know what has happened between then and now to apparently change their minds. It's amazing how nothing can happen, yet guys suddenly decide to go a different way.
        Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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        • #19
          Ford has been hyping Vesely more than anyone I can think of. During the combine, he talked about him as if he was in a league of his own. That is a lot of praise invested in Vesley. I honestly think he was being foolish by using such strong language to hammer his point and now he needs to stand by it.

          So his ego is in a position where he needs to find Vesely a suitor. None of the other clubs are talking about him, nor are their fans. So in this situation, its easy to use sports bias in your favour and make us be the ones craving this euro prospect.

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          • #20
            Tim W. wrote: View Post
            I'd like to know what has happened between then and now to apparently change their minds. It's amazing how nothing can happen, yet guys suddenly decide to go a different way.
            Make sure to tune in to Steve's podcast on Thursday.

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            • #21
              I have no problem taking Vesely, he's an excellent prospect. I don't like him as much as some of the other guys that are available like Leonard or Walker but he's still a great athlete with excellent size. Plus I think BC and the scouts have a much better understanding of what he can do and what kind of work ethic he will bring.
              "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

              -Churchill

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              • #22
                On Ford's big board he has Kanter at 5.

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                • #23
                  hateslosing wrote: View Post
                  I have no problem taking Vesely, he's an excellent prospect. I don't like him as much as some of the other guys that are available like Leonard or Walker but he's still a great athlete with excellent size. Plus I think BC and the scouts have a much better understanding of what he can do and what kind of work ethic he will bring.
                  Kelly liked Aurajo and felt Jawai was as good as anyone up to 17th, even went to Australia to see him in person (so got to see him closer than most). They looked shocked, puzzled and humoured when Bryan was asked by Indiana to select Hilbbert. Kelly, our head of scout pumped the way towards a Hoffa selection. He is still here and many of us older fans have a really hard time wondering why. The joke is that he has incriminating photos of Tannenbaum.

                  We act like Babcock made that selection on his own, but there was a considerable scouting effort behind him, lead by Kelly. We than put him in a row boat set him out sea as if it was his inexperience and haste that made that fumble, truth was Babcock was just using OUR scouting department.


                  This is why I get weary about Vesely. I don't want to just hear about us being high on him. Every Ford mock, it is us. No mention of Vesely by other GM's or their fans. This to me is bothersome and raises some red flags.


                  I would like to hear some hype from the other clubs, even clubs below us. Vesely is regarded quite high, he is no Hoffa or Jawai, so I would like to see others being interested in getting him. If he is worth 5th, then this should be easy. Even a willingness by teams below to trade up to take this gem (I hear those scenarios batted around with the other top 5 picks, why not Vesely?). Maybe a post like, "If Toronto is stupid enough to let Vesley slip, we will jump all over him." , unfortunately there is none of that. I have looked and looked, and the interest seems to be pinned to us and our Euro centric focus (another red flag). Again, I am weary that we are being set up to bite on a player that will slip in this draft.


                  I would feel a lot more comfortable if the desire for him was as strong as Kanter, or JV, but it has not been... no reports from anyone but us, not saying he is not a great pick, I am just worried that we will be the only club running in his direction when the pistol fires, only to see that there is no one trailing behind us.
                  Last edited by MyMomLovesMe; Thu Jun 16, 2011, 06:15 AM.

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                  • #24
                    The year Hoffa was selected, Babcock took the job one a week or so before the draft after coming from Minnesota where he served as an assistant. That year the Wolves had a good team and so they weren't expecting to have a shot at anybody who wasn't in the back end of the draft. Because of this they chose not to scout the lottery. So, when Babcock came in here he leaned heavily on the remaining scouts to help him make the decision. It's still his choice to live by, he chose size over the best player available, but you have to think that his scouting department still had a misread on Hoffa and that bad report landed in Babcock's lap. Was that Kelly's fault? Sure, I'll buy that. I also put it on MLSE because they failed to get something done fast enough to give the new GM time to adequately prepare for one of the most important events for a mediocre team trying to not be a mediocre team. They almost did it again this season so props to them for getting their act together.

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                    • #25
                      MyMomLovesMe wrote: View Post
                      Kelly liked Aurajo and felt Jawai was as good as anyone up to 17th, even went to Australia to see him in person (so got to see him closer than most). They looked shocked, puzzled and humoured when Bryan was asked by Indiana to select Hilbbert. Kelly, our head of scout pumped the way towards a Hoffa selection. He is still here and many of us older fans have a really hard time wondering why. The joke is that he has incriminating photos of Tannenbaum.

                      We act like Babcock made that selection on his own, but there was a considerable scouting effort behind him, lead by Kelly. We than put him in a row boat set him out sea as if it was his inexperience and haste that made that fumble, truth was Babcock was just using OUR scouting department.


                      This is why I get weary about Vesely. I don't want to just hear about us being high on him. Every Ford mock, it is us. No mention of Vesely by other GM's or their fans. This to me is bothersome and raises some red flags.


                      I would like to hear some hype from the other clubs, even clubs below us. Vesely is regarded quite high, he is no Hoffa or Jawai, so I would like to see others being interested in getting him. If he is worth 5th, then this should be easy. Even a willingness by teams below to trade up to take this gem (I hear those scenarios batted around with the other top 5 picks, why not Vesely?). Maybe a post like, "If Toronto is stupid enough to let Vesley slip, we will jump all over him." , unfortunately there is none of that. I have looked and looked, and the interest seems to be pinned to us and our Euro centric focus (another red flag). Again, I am weary that we are being set up to bite on a player that will slip in this draft.


                      I would feel a lot more comfortable if the desire for him was as strong as Kanter, or JV, but it has not been... no reports from anyone but us, not saying he is not a great pick, I am just worried that we will be the only club running in his direction when the pistol fires, only to see that there is no one trailing behind us.
                      I think one of the things that's important to keep in mind is that none of the guys likely available to us at 5 are people most teams are really hoping for. A lot of the guys we talk about like Kemba Walker and Kawhi Leonard are not even in the top ten of some mock's and I don't think there is any team out there that is thinking "oh man, if the Raps let Jimmer slip we'll be Golden". The only guys that people might be excited about if we let them slide are Kanter and Knight (Assuming Irving and Williams are both gone). If we take Vesely ahead of either of those two I'll be upset, but if it's between Vesely, Leonard, Walker, and Valciunas I'm good with any of those picks.

                      Vesely may slip but it won't be far and I really doubt he makes it out of the top 7 or 8. I've read reports in the past that said the Jazz were considering him for the third pick and it seems that there is a lot of talk about him landing anywhere from 5-8. This mock from NBA.com is an example of both those points

                      http://www.nba.com/2011/news/feature...s=iref:nbahpt1

                      Vesely is a very good talent by all accounts and I can't help but think a lot of the hate directed at him on these forums is a result of his euroness.
                      "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                      -Churchill

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                      • #26
                        hateslosing wrote: View Post
                        Vesely is a very good talent by all accounts and I can't help but think a lot of the hate directed at him on these forums is a result of his euroness.
                        You are probably right. The disdain should be directed towards his lack of handle, lack of rebounding, and dreadful FT shooting.

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                        • #27
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          You are probably right. The disdain should be directed towards his lack of handle, lack of rebounding, and dreadful FT shooting.
                          No rookie is perfect, there are questions about every player in the top ten this season. Vesely is a guy that definately has some problems in his game, but he is also a 6"11' player who has the mobility to play small forward and is always aggressive. He has the potential to either dominate the three with his height or put on some weight and dominate the 4 with his mobility and in either case he would be a good pick for the raps. His shot is bad but is apparently not broken, he justs need practice and a good coach. The rebounding is my biggest concern since he could end up as a four.

                          That said, I would definately prefer Leonard.
                          "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                          -Churchill

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                          • #28
                            hateslosing wrote: View Post
                            No rookie is perfect, there are questions about every player in the top ten this season. Vesely is a guy that definately has some problems in his game, but he is also a 6"11' player who has the mobility to play small forward and is always aggressive. He has the potential to either dominate the three with his height or put on some weight and dominate the 4 with his mobility and in either case he would be a good pick for the raps. His shot is bad but is apparently not broken, he justs need practice and a good coach. The rebounding is my biggest concern since he could end up as a four.

                            That said, I would definately prefer Leonard.
                            Is 6'11" a team need?

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                            • #29
                              hateslosing wrote: View Post
                              No rookie is perfect, there are questions about every player in the top ten this season. Vesely is a guy that definately has some problems in his game, but he is also a 6"11' player who has the mobility to play small forward and is always aggressive. He has the potential to either dominate the three with his height or put on some weight and dominate the 4 with his mobility and in either case he would be a good pick for the raps. His shot is bad but is apparently not broken, he justs need practice and a good coach. The rebounding is my biggest concern since he could end up as a four.

                              That said, I would definately prefer Leonard.
                              Vesely looks awesome on YouTube in 27 second clips. There are too many holes in his game for my liking. I'd much rather reach on Kanter, Knight, Walker, or Leonard.

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                              • #30
                                Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                Vesely looks awesome on YouTube in 27 second clips. There are too many holes in his game for my liking. I'd much rather reach on Kanter, Knight, Walker, or Leonard.
                                Fair enough, I agree except on Walker. I just think there are too many questions about Walker's ability to defend in the NBA and his questionnable playmaking leaves me with too many doubts.
                                "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                                -Churchill

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