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Is Derozan contract that bad?

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  • Zach Lowe wrote:
    The trope is that “advanced statistics” frown on DeRozan, but the truth is that very few statistics of any kind paint him as a productive player. He’s a low-percentage shooter who can’t shoot 3s, and thus can’t space the floor on the wing. He has never shown even average creativity or timing as a passer, and Dwane Casey cut down on DeRozan’s pick-and-roll usage as soon as he got the Raptors head-coaching job. He’s a minus defender both on the ball (opponents shot better than 50 percent on isolation attempts last season, according to Synergy Sports) and not a particularly attentive helper off it. He’s only 23, but DeRozan has never had a league-average PER, and the chances he lives up to this deal are slim.
    Source.

    BC needs to be fired. I can't even describe how stupid this extension was. I could probably write an essay on it. It's been two friggin days and I'm still really upset about it. I was riding on the good Lowry & Val vibes and then we give a massive contract to a shooting that can't shoot. The team will, never, ever go anywhere worth a damn with Bargnani and DeRozan on the team.

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    • I like Demar and want to see him on the team...as a 4-6M guard off the bench (at least he will take shots as a bench player). Upgrading the 2 and 3 has been a major need...and still is.

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      • WhatWhat wrote: View Post
        Source.

        BC needs to be fired. I can't even describe how stupid this extension was. I could probably write an essay on it. It's been two friggin days and I'm still really upset about it. I was riding on the good Lowry & Val vibes and then we give a massive contract to a shooting that can't shoot. The team will, never, ever go anywhere worth a damn with Bargnani and DeRozan on the team.
        It's worth reading this whole review. It describes the relative merits and faults of the contract quite well
        http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...ension-edition

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        • Jclaw wrote: View Post
          It's worth reading this whole review. It describes the relative merits and faults of the contract quite well
          http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...ension-edition
          Thanks for link, Jclaw.

          We all know the bad - it has been discussed to death (even if it is true!). Lets look at the positives from Zach Lowe link Jclaw put up:

          That said, the Raptors can at least hang their hat on a few things here:

          • DeRozan has gotten to the foul line a fair bit, and that can be an indicator of future scoring prowess.

          • Toronto will only be a hair above the cap this summer — and maybe right at it — meaning they’ll still have the full mid-level exception to use without any danger of approaching the tax line.

          • DeRozan seems to be coming into his own as a bully of smaller players, something that might serve him well on the block against shooting guards.

          • The four-year length leaves the five-year designated-player tag in the bag for Jonas Valanciunas.

          • The Raptors cap sheet is clean enough that they could have something like $8 million to $10 million in cap space in the summer of 2014, even including Kyle Lowry’s cap hold. (Note: This assumes they renounce Ed Davis’s cap hold and that the salary cap levels grow by about 4 percent per year.)

          • Toronto doesn’t have much (i.e., any) record of drawing max-level free agents, so although max-level cap room is useful for other purposes — including in-season trades — it has different levels of utility to different teams.

          • Doing nothing is often not a realistic option for particular executives and ownership groups, even if it should be. There is an alternative path here: See how DeRozan performs this year, and if he’s shaky again with Terrence Ross waiting for more playing time, just let the guy walk and watch another sucker overpay. Teams are just loath to go that route, having invested years in asset development.

          It’s not a catastrophic deal, since Toronto isn’t contending anytime soon regardless, and the cap sheet is almost spotless after 2014-15. But it’s a bad contract.

          I am far from happy with it but I'm not as disappointed as I was. I am also still holding out hope a trade of significance can be done this season to shore up the wing (although, and this might come in a thread soon, I am extremely doubtful of this). Bottom line: BC lost a supporter in me - I know he is going to lose sleep over that.

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          • If this DeRozan we saw vs Minny was the super improved, new, and permanent DeRozan, then his contract is an absolute steal.

            Please keep it up DeMar and make the majority of posters here - myself included! - eat their pixels.

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            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
              If this DeRozan we saw vs Minny was the super improved, new, and permanent DeRozan, then his contract is an absolute steal.

              Please keep it up DeMar and make the majority of posters here - myself included! - eat their pixels.
              Yeah I have to say, this is the most comfortable and in control I've ever seen him on the court. Maybe it's just me but the difference is noticeable even between pre-season and regular season. Don't think I've seen his usual 'get the ball on the perimeter, hold/dribble it for 4 seconds without doing anything, make a pointless pass' once these last 2 games.

              Then again, we need to keep in mind we'd thought Bargs had turned a corner for the first chunk of the season last year.

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              • Lark Benson wrote: View Post
                Yeah I have to say, this is the most comfortable and in control I've ever seen him on the court. Maybe it's just me but the difference is noticeable even between pre-season and regular season. Don't think I've seen his usual 'get the ball on the perimeter, hold/dribble it for 4 seconds without doing anything, make a pointless pass' once these last 2 games.

                Then again, we need to keep in mind we'd thought Bargs had turned a corner for the first chunk of the season last year.
                .... and it has only been 2 games.

                But it is better than the alternative.

                Optimism is often frowned upon by Raptors fans but I can't help but feel it. When the majority are in agreement on the outcome of something, the majority are usually wrong.

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                • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  If this DeRozan we saw vs Minny was the super improved, new, and permanent DeRozan, then his contract is an absolute steal.

                  Please keep it up DeMar and make the majority of posters here - myself included! - eat their pixels.
                  See I think anything less than an All-Star performance will still make this a bad signing for the simple fact that we could match any offer he was going to receive. By not signing him early the worst case scenario was paying an extra mil (assuming DD plays really well and some team gets loopy and offered him 11), but it would be an extra mil you'd pay knowing that that was what the market dictates.

                  This is a gamble on Colangelo's part, a gamble that pays little but could lose a lot.

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                  • Letter N wrote: View Post
                    See I think anything less than an All-Star performance will still make this a bad signing for the simple fact that we could match any offer he was going to receive. By not signing him early the worst case scenario was paying an extra mil (assuming DD plays really well and some team gets loopy and offered him 11), but it would be an extra mil you'd pay knowing that that was what the market dictates.

                    This is a gamble on Colangelo's part, a gamble that pays little but could lose a lot.
                    I definitely agree with that. I have made the point of lost flexibility numerous times.

                    Given the advantages the Raps had with RFA, BC should have waited.

                    However, if DD keeps playing like he has the last 2 games, then his contract is very reasonable, in my opinion, relative to others in the league.

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                    • Demar has been very good offensively IMO so far this year. Seems so much more composed and the ability to create his own shot. Defensively he's still been suspect but he's definitely looked good at picking his spots offensively. One of the best things I've liked is his demeanor towards the officials. He's back to his rookie year where if he doesn't get the call he runs back down the court rather then whining!

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                      • I don't know if anyone posted this, but wagesofwins take:

                        This is the worst contract extension since the Raptors extended Andrea Bargnani to a five year, $50 million contract in 2009. Wait — you mean to tell me that one man is responsible for both signings? How does that happen? Oh, that’s right, we’re talking about Bryan Colangelo, the Man Who Can Do No Wrong. Like Bargnani, DeRozan is a lottery pick that simply hasn’t panned out. While most young players improve during their first few years in the league, DeRozan has actually gotten worse every single year, which is an impressive feat. He’s a shooting guard who can’t shoot, defend, pass, and rebounds like Steve Nash. But hey, at least the guy can dunk, right? This year there are around 50 players who will make $10 million or more in salary. Is DeRozan anywhere near a top 50 player in this league?
                        Source:
                        http://wagesofwins.com/2012/11/02/go...2009-draftees/

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                        • Brandon wrote: View Post
                          I don't know if anyone posted this, but wagesofwins take:



                          Source:
                          http://wagesofwins.com/2012/11/02/go...2009-draftees/
                          The only thing I would point out from that is he is paid $3.3M this season. We'll be able to answer the question of whether he is a top 50 player in the league or not next year.

                          But based on his performance thus far, I would say the quote is accurate looking in the rearviewmirror.

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                          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            The only thing I would point out from that is he is paid $3.3M this season. We'll be able to answer the question of whether he is a top 50 player in the league or not next year.

                            But based on his performance thus far, I would say the quote is accurate looking in the rearviewmirror.
                            Too bad no one told Colangelo he could wait a year. (I'm not being snarky as I know you agree with that.)

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