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  • #16
    Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Nothing better than quoting one of the delusional front-page writers who predicted that this team was a #6 seed this year! That is the sort of solid homerism that makes you hirable for RR.

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    • #17
      magoon wrote: View Post
      Nothing better than quoting one of the delusional front-page writers who predicted that this team was a #6 seed this year! That is the sort of solid homerism that makes you hirable for RR.
      The way things stand in the eastern conference you going to say that we don't have just as much of a chance at 6th seed as Wizards, Cavs, Pistons, Hawks?
      @Chr1st1anL

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      • #18
        Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
        The way things stand in the eastern conference you going to say that we don't have just as much of a chance at 6th seed as Wizards, Cavs, Pistons, Hawks?
        The Wiz had a bad start and most of their losses have been competitive with the exception of their drubbing by the Heat (see yesterday's one-point loss to the Thunder). The Cavs have had a terrible start because Bynum isn't the answer they hoped for at C and Bennett has had a god-awful start and hasn't helped their giant hole at SF, but the Cavs have so many draft picks to trade that they will be able to rectify their issues quickly: if we don't trade them Rudy, then Boston will trade them Jeff Green or Utah will trade them Gordon Hayward, because Cleveland is ready to start chasing playoffs and they have the means to do it. Detroit is problematic but less problematic than we are. Atlanta is playing like a .500 team right now.

        Bluntly: the Raps are playing very, very badly indeed. With the exception of the Utah game, every Raps game, win or loss, has featured ugly, inefficient, inelegant, ineffective basketball; our wins have only come about when we play truly awful teams. This isn't a recipe for playoffs as a rule, and if we manage to luck into it by other teams sucking even worse than we do, we'll get a first-round exit pretty much guaranteed - and a first-round exit isn't going to do shit for us in terms of developing a team, because nobody respects the eighth seed.

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        • #19
          Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          The way things stand in the eastern conference you going to say that we don't have just as much of a chance at 6th seed as Wizards, Cavs, Pistons, Hawks?
          The 6th seed, and getting dusted by Miami (the current 3rd seed) in the 1st round?

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          • #20
            magoon wrote: View Post
            The Wiz had a bad start and most of their losses have been competitive with the exception of their drubbing by the Heat (see yesterday's one-point loss to the Thunder). The Cavs have had a terrible start because Bynum isn't the answer they hoped for at C and Bennett has had a god-awful start and hasn't helped their giant hole at SF, but the Cavs have so many draft picks to trade that they will be able to rectify their issues quickly: if we don't trade them Rudy, then Boston will trade them Jeff Green or Utah will trade them Gordon Hayward, because Cleveland is ready to start chasing playoffs and they have the means to do it. Detroit is problematic but less problematic than we are. Atlanta is playing like a .500 team right now.

            Bluntly: the Raps are playing very, very badly indeed. With the exception of the Utah game, every Raps game, win or loss, has featured ugly, inefficient, inelegant, ineffective basketball; our wins have only come about when we play truly awful teams. This isn't a recipe for playoffs as a rule, and if we manage to luck into it by other teams sucking even worse than we do, we'll get a first-round exit pretty much guaranteed - and a first-round exit isn't going to do shit for us in terms of developing a team, because nobody respects the eighth seed.
            Yup, we could very easily be sitting with a 1-6 record right now. The wins vs. Boston and Milwaukee were fairly ugly games. The offense still looks disjointed (Rudy and DeMar have yet to play well together), defense can't seem to get timely stops, and the rotation is still as muddy as training camp.

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            • #21
              charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
              Thing is, IMO, trying to win short term doesn't necessarily means that we won't win in the long run. To me, JV can really be the guy we build around. To me, whether we trade him or not, DeMar is a really good piece to this team. To me, both of our PF can be important pieces on a winning team. To me, Lowry can definitely be a starting caliber point guard on a winning team, even though a lot of point guards would do a better job than him running our team. To me, Ross is a highflying young player with a lot of potential at the 2 spot. Landry Fields, say what you want about his shooting stroke and his contract, he's a winner. Acy, he's a winner. Novak played a role on a playoff team + great shooter. Augustin don't play well so far, but remember what he was doing just a couple years ago in Charlotte; give him some time. Buycks could be a primary backup PG in the NBA. Stone, from what I saw, can definitely play. Daye can to. Gray would play on the Miami Heat. Not a joke right here.

              Looking at it this way, I just think we have (Masai have) all the tools to build a winning team, in the long run, without tanking. Don't forget all the draft picks we have. Free agency. Trades. But please, please Masai. Not tanking.

              *EDIT* LOL I forgot Rudy. Well, borderline all star, 27 years of age, will find his game. I'm not saying we should not trade him. I'm not saying we should neither.
              You are definitely boosting this team to much. There are more negatives than positives about this team than you just mentioned. DeMar still can't shoot. Lowry is still selfish and too short to be a effective PG on this team. Ross is up and down all the time. I still can't justify paying Fields 7 million a year. How is Acy a winner? Novak played one season on a playoff team, thats it. Augustine is garbage and was ineffective last year for the Pacers. And Aaron Gray is just Aaron Gray. And Rudy Guy can't shoot and turns over the ball every time he goes into the paint. Oh yeah, we have the worst coach in the NBA.

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              • #22
                charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                I'm on this forum because I want to share my opinion with other real Raptors fans and because I like to see the point of view of other real Raptors fans. Delete this thread if you want but I just wanted to say that I'm really getting tired of always reading these same pessimist things, about tanking, about Casey sucks, DeMar sucks, Rudy sucks, AB sucked then in NY he's good (plus he's not, at all) etc.

                Let's put this all together: THIS TEAM IS NOT TANKING, I CAN TELL YOU THIS.

                Sincerely,

                from a real Raptors fan, who, just like any other true sport fan, would like his team to win.
                I am clearly on the 'pro-tank' side, but I cheer for the Raptors to win each and every game. From the moment of tip-off, my heart bests my head.

                I don't expect them to win many games, because I don't think the roster or head coach are very good. The team isn't very talented, the players don't really fit very well together, there's too much selfish play, and the team is well beyond the salary cap.

                I am not upset if they lose, because I believe every loss is additional evidence to help MU make a decision to rebuild/retool this team, which I believe is in the team's long-term best interest. TL has already overhauled the team's management behind the scenes, including bringing in the reigning executive of the year, so it's only natural that the next phase is overhauling the on-court product (players and head coach).

                I believe I am objective about this team, despite a deep passion that I have had for this team since day 1. I will never root against this team (Toronto Raptors), but I have no problem being critical about some of the players employed by this franchise. The logo on the front of the jersey is what matters, not the names on the back of them (I think you're blurring the line of distinction between the two).

                I want to see my beloved Raptors become a perennial playoff team, with legitimate aspirations for bringing an NBA championship north of the border in my lifetime. I do not believe that a core of overpaid, selfish, flawed players (ie: Gay, DeRozan & Lowry) will ever come close to this goal, so I have no problem watching MU cash-in his chips (trade assets) as part of calculated, methodical, comprehensive plan to rebuild this team's roster more efficiently and effectively, in order to bring about a new era of sustainable winning.

                Yes, I suppose I do support "tanking". However, please don't ever question my "fan-ness", simply because I share a different opinion of the current team and what the best strategy for improving it is.
                Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Nov 11, 2013, 01:46 PM.

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                • #23
                  KazanTheMan wrote: View Post
                  I love the team so much, that's why I want the best for them. A "real" fan should be able to realize this team is mediocre. I'm still going to cheer for them, but that doesn't make me blind to fact.
                  Love that avatar.

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                  • #24
                    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                    I am clearly on the 'pro-tank' side, but I cheer for the Raptors to win each and every game. From the moment of tip-off, my heart bests my head.

                    I don't expect them to win many games, because I don't think the roster or head coach are very good. The team isn't very talented, the players don't really fit very well together, there's too much selfish play, and the team is well beyond the salary cap.

                    I am not upset if they lose, because I believe every loss is additional evidence to help MU make a decision to rebuild/retool this team, which I believe is in the team's long-term best interest. TL has already overhauled the team's management behind the scenes, including bringing in the reigning executive of the year, so it's only natural that the next phase is overhauling the on-court product (players and head coach).

                    I believe I am objective about this team, despite a deep passion that I have had for this team since day 1. I will never root against this team (Toronto Raptors), but I have no problem being critical about some of the players employed by this franchise. The logo on the front of the jersey is what matters, not the names on the back of them (I think you're blurring the line of distinction between the two).

                    I want to see my beloved Raptors become a perennial playoff team, with legitimate aspirations for bringing an NBA championship north of the border in my lifetime. I do not believe that a core of overpaid, selfish, flawed players (ie: Gay, DeRozan & Lowry) will ever come close to this goal, so I have no problem watching MU cash-in his chips (trade assets) as part of calculated, methodical, comprehensive plan to rebuild this team's roster more efficiently and effectively, in order to bring about a new era of sustainable winning.

                    Yes, I suppose I do support "tanking". However, please don't ever question my "fan-ness", simply because I share a different opinion of the current team and what the best strategy for improving it is.
                    Very well said.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      johnnyg31 wrote: View Post
                      You are definitely boosting this team to much. There are more negatives than positives about this team than you just mentioned. DeMar still can't shoot. Lowry is still selfish and too short to be a effective PG on this team. Ross is up and down all the time. I still can't justify paying Fields 7 million a year. How is Acy a winner? Novak played one season on a playoff team, thats it. Augustine is garbage and was ineffective last year for the Pacers. And Aaron Gray is just Aaron Gray. And Rudy Guy can't shoot and turns over the ball every time he goes into the paint. Oh yeah, we have the worst coach in the NBA.
                      Sometimes I see things this way too but more realistically we have some decent pieces. These pieces do lack cohesion and direction

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                      • #26
                        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                        Yes, I suppose I do support "tanking". However, please don't ever question my "fan-ness", simply because I share a different opinion of the current team and what the best strategy for improving it is.
                        Exactly.

                        Also, I'm a basketball fan before a Raptors fan. There are multiple players on this team who do not play the game the way I like to see it played. I would want to see them gone regardless of whether that gave us a chance at Wiggins, or another blue-chipper.

                        charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                        from a real Raptors fan, who, just like any other true sport fan, would like his team to win.
                        What was your opinion on Bargnani? How did you feel about the fans who were booing him last year?
                        "Stop eating your sushi."
                        "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                        "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                        - Jack Armstrong

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                        • #27
                          charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                          I'm on this forum because I want to share my opinion with other real Raptors fans and because I like to see the point of view of other real Raptors fans. Delete this thread if you want but I just wanted to say that I'm really getting tired of always reading these same pessimist things, about tanking, about Casey sucks, DeMar sucks, Rudy sucks, AB sucked then in NY he's good (plus he's not, at all) etc.

                          Let's put this all together: THIS TEAM IS NOT TANKING, I CAN TELL YOU THIS.

                          Sincerely,

                          from a real Raptors fan, who, just like any other true sport fan, would like his team to win.
                          Casey is a big problem. Being in the non-tanking group as you are I really think firing DC and hiring SVD could get us 6th
                          seed this year. That said I think Casey most likely will not be fired and we will be in 8-10th range.

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                          • #28
                            I have come across pessimistic points of view on the forum. I mean people who have a pessimistic under tone no matter what they say. However not everybody is being pessimistic when they condone tanking. Considering the rich talent in the upcoming draft, tanking IMO is the most realistic and sensible thing to do. If we don't, we'll see regretful posts a few years down the road about how a superstar of another team could have been ours if we had chosen to tank.
                            Attitude Is A Choice.

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                            • #29
                              Sorry about the whole ''real fan'' thing. I didn't use the good way to express my thoughts. And thanks y'all for your very good answers.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                charlesnba23 wrote: View Post
                                Sorry about the whole ''real fan'' thing. I didn't use the good way to express my thoughts. And thanks y'all for your very good answers.
                                See that is what is usually great about this place. People disagree and have difference of opinions but it remains polite and civil.

                                As others and myself have said, in the end everyone wants Toronto to win; the only question or debate is what is the best way to get there?

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