TANK vs ANTI TANK - SUPER THREAD - The Because I Can't Keep Track Edition

[Superjudge]

i never like grange's reporting

I know Grange. You should maybe pay attention when he talks, he's a smart cookie.

[RaptorsFan4Life]

If anyone still believes in Anti-Tank movement you need to read this.

http://www.raptorshq.com/2013/12/5/5...-duncan-pacers

Really good article. If anyone still isn't on the tank movement you will be after reading that. The only think I didn't like about the article was using Allstar to judge someone's skill but aside from that it's a very compelling article.

[Axel]

I would say that those player's which are bad enough to "poop the stage" are quickly out of a job or aren't drafted at all. These are the 2nd round guys who get cut after a couple of years. The raptors aren't a disaster on broadway, they're just not winning any awards.

These guys aren't a disaster on Broadway? We are below teams that are actively trying to tank (Bos, Phil, Pho) despite us not yet moving our players to start the tank. I'm pretty sure we are Tony Danza pooping on stage. Big name, no results.

[peanutwoozle]

Wanna get a reaction are 99% of these forum people are pro tankers and I don't care what u guys saying. Proud to be a antitanker because
A. I don't know u guys
B. U don't know me
C. Tanking is not the right direction to go for the 10000000000th time

Go have fun guys slamming what I say cause I'm proud to be one of those 1% of people who don't wanna tank.

I'm with you all the way

Time to destroy the tanks, Hulk Style

[CalgaryRapsFan]

hmm either things are picking up steam behind the scenes, or reporters are reading RR threads, because TSN is now covering the story as their top story!

LINK: http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=438278

[rapfan10]

I'm honestly curious what direction you propose, as an alternative to the multi-prong, multi-year 'tanking' strategy that has been laid out in detail by several pro-tankers (myself included).

It's one thing for people to say they're opposed to "tanking", but it's another thing to say what it is you are in support of (or would be).

Just saying that these college studs and high school studs don't turn to be the next set of superstars right away... So we would have to go through years of being in the middle ground. Like this number one ranked high school player did not get his chance in the NBA. He was right there with lebron.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...nny-cooke.html
Like Wiggins isnt doing that great. Jabari parker is nice. But like I just don't see the raps getting even in the top 8 even if they tried. When has this team ever had a coach... Never. Jv and dd need that and u can find a free agent in a year. Either way this team Isnt gonna be good in 2 years... May as well let the raptors get into the playoffs while that window is open and allow them to gain experience cause even if we go in one or two years time by tanking... Guess what none of our top 3 or 4 guys will have any playoff experience. Im not saying that tanking wont lead to a better future, but if tanking doesn't go out to well then this season is a wasted opportunity

[rapfan10]

I'm with you all the way

Time to destroy the tanks, Hulk Style

Lol ur the only guy on this forum on my side


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[CalgaryRapsFan]

Just saying that these college studs and high school studs don't turn to be the next set of superstars right away... So we would have to go through years of being in the middle ground. Like this number one ranked high school player did not get his chance in the NBA. He was right there with lebron.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...nny-cooke.html
Like Wiggins isnt doing that great. Jabari parker is nice. But like I just don't see the raps getting even in the top 8 even if they tried. When has this team ever had a coach... Never. Jv and dd need that and u can find a free agent in a year. Either way this team Isnt gonna be good in 2 years... May as well let the raptors get into the playoffs while that window is open and allow them to gain experience cause even if we go in one or two years time by tanking... Guess what none of our top 3 or 4 guys will have any playoff experience. Im not saying that tanking wont lead to a better future, but if tanking doesn't go out to well then this season is a wasted opportunity

I totally agree that no draft pick is a guaranteed sure thing; Raptors fans have to look no further than Bargnani. I would argue that this draft is shaping up to be historically talented and deep, according to many experts who are far more knowledgeable than any of us.

Plus, as several pro-tankers have mentioned, a 'tanking' strategy is not all about a single draft pick. In fact, I'd argue that the single 2014 draft pick you're referring to is only a piece of the puzzle (potentially a significant piece, of course).

I don't want to rehash each part of such a plan, but I think 'tanking' isn't even the appropriate word, especially in light of how bad the team has been while playing hard and fully healthy. As MU said himself today, the team is capped out and poorly assembled (some talent, but terrible fit/chemistry). The proposed strategy by pro-tankers is more about a proper rebuild to create a more talented, balanced, cost-effective roster that can be sustainable for the long-haul, turning the Raptors into perennial contenders.

tank, rebuild.... tomato, tomato

[peanutwoozle]

Well, that's good to hear because finishing in no man's land is the worst possible spot to be.

sounds like a crazy promise if you ask me.

[Superjudge]

The Bulls have a need as I see it...Rose gone for year, Mike James the backup just injured, Teague sent to Dleague, Butler normally the sg who could sub as pg is injured. Even Heinrich the starting pg is probably out of pos. and will soon be over worked. But the Bulls tend to be tight and dont panic...though their pg roster seems bleak.

The Bulls would be thrilled with a 40 game losing streak right now. The dont want Lowry. They get two kicks in the teeth and now BANG, they have a legit chance to actually suck all the way to the lottery, isnt it HILARIOUS!

[wallz]

They put a lot of work in man. When you devote your entire life to one single thing, it's nice to get results.

A paycheck is results in my book lol

[rapfan10]

I totally agree that no draft pick is a guaranteed sure thing; Raptors fans have to look no further than Bargnani. I would argue that this draft is shaping up to be historically talented and deep, according to many experts who are far more knowledgeable than any of us.

Plus, as several pro-tankers have mentioned, a 'tanking' strategy is not all about a single draft pick. In fact, I'd argue that the single 2014 draft pick you're referring to is only a piece of the puzzle (potentially a significant piece, of course).

I don't want to rehash each part of such a plan, but I think 'tanking' isn't even the appropriate word, especially in light of how bad the team has been while playing hard and fully healthy. As MU said himself today, the team is capped out and poorly assembled (some talent, but terrible fit/chemistry). The proposed strategy by pro-tankers is more about a proper rebuild to create a more talented, balanced, cost-effective roster that can be sustainable for the long-haul, turning the Raptors into perennial contenders.

tank, rebuild.... tomato, tomato

Like i agree to that... This roster definitely needs a overhaul. But I'm not convinced losing games this year to get a good draft pick will help us in the long run. This roster needs tweeks... A full out rebuild after bosh left Isnt what is needed cause we have some pieces that are more valuable then what we had back then.

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[Superjudge]

Hey folks,

Things are getting a little heated in that open letter thread and I've stated my position clearly and will leave it at that. I'm not here to be antagonistic. Rather, I just considered another angle that's worth considering:

The players.

How would you feel competing for a city that wants you to lose?

If I were a player on the Toronto Raptors, I would find this forum very discouraging.
I might understand,
but it would be discouraging.

I've been hesitant to say this, but philosophically I think a tank might be the right way to go.
Philosophically.
But we don't live in a logical vacuum and I'm sure DeRozan wouldn't appreciate it much.

It's a strange flavour of support.

If any of what you wrote was accurate;

1) Rudy Gay would have spent all summer with a professional trainer, he would have been in the gym with a shooting coach every day as well. He would be going the Lebron/Wade/Bosh route pf making a pact with his top guy in order to try to become are frighteningly efficient as possible, no mater the hit on his stats.

2) Lowry - See Rudy Gay, but also add in hours of tape to try to learn a bit more about what he needs to do in the Toronto offence.

I would say its pretty safe to assume they didn't, and wouldnt. They couldnt care less. Lowry is the same guy, and Gay, well, he's just not all that focused.

[Superjudge]

Furthermore, as a a former NCAA D1 athlete, I can tell you that if I knew we had to have a bad team my junior year to land a dirty recruit for my senior year, I would not be opposed.

Personal development is just as important to these guys as being on a winning team.

You have been sent to me from heaven.

signed

former varsity athlete.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Like i agree to that... This roster definitely needs a overhaul. But I'm not convinced losing games this year to get a good draft pick will help us in the long run. This roster needs tweeks... A full out rebuild after bosh left Isnt what is needed cause we have some pieces that are more valuable then what we had back then.

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Fair enough. I suppose the bigger difference of opinion is with regards to the bold.

I don't think tweaking is enough, unless you consider moving Gay and/or Lowry as tweaking, despite the fact that they make close to 40% of the salary cap and are 2/5 of the team's starters. Regardless what you call it, I think moving those two is the starting point or any roster overhaul and I don't think you'll get equal current value for either (I expect moving them would be more of a typical deadline 'current talent for future talent' type of move). If that's the case, again, regardless what you call it, if you move those two this season the team will 'tank'. However, I would argue that the combination of additional prospects/draft picks/cap space and an improved draft positioning for the Raptors own 2014 draft pick, would leave the team in a position to be much improved next season (and that's just from moving 2 players).