TROSS or Demar

[vino]

Why Raptor fans always fall in love with possible potentials vs the reality ?

Reality is DD is a good 3rd option in a good team now. Reality is Ross right now is not there and may never get there. He has not shown anything to suggest that he WILL be better than DD !!! NOTHING ....

Same goes with Big Val and for god sake 2 PAT !!!! It is all speculation.

Now, if we want to trade DD for an established STAR in this league, then go ahead. I have no problem with that. But if we think Ross is making DD redundant or ... then my friends, you are dreaming.

Of course it is speculation; I've said it's my opinion, a very subjective one. As for realities - yes we are in the 3rd but we wouldn't make playoffs in the West and for me this is not enough. The team has to improve and on a contending team, as I've said in the beginning, I do not see DD as a starting SG (or SF for that matter). We need a lock down D man who can guard the likes of Lebron, George, Melo, Durant... etc. Mind you, not shut them down, but at least make them earn it. Until we have someone like that on the roster, we are not getting out of the first round. Who better to haul us a piece like that (except draft) and who could this new asset easily replace in the starting unit? Right....

Tross should be our 2 while DD plays the 3. The only reason DD's at the 2 is because he can't really defend opposing 3s. If only he can get a tad stronger or bulk up a bit more and improve his defence, he would make a great 3. He's managed to improve his offence every year so it's not too late for him to hone his defence.

And i'm a bit disappointed with the lack of post play from DD. I know that we're playing less isoball but it's like his post game has disappeared.

2 or 3 - does not matter. DD is still inefficient and average at best on D. We need better if we are to really build a contender and not a pretender here.

[BigCamB]

You certainly can't give up Ross, unless it's for something freaking amazing that's all I say. Elite 3 and D skills are just so valuable and it's easy to blend him into any lineup.

[Pong]

2 or 3 - does not matter. DD is still inefficient and average at best on D. We need better if we are to really build a contender and not a pretender here.

Oh yea, I'm definitely on board if we can trade DD for a versatile 3 since i much rather prefer Ross as our 2. Portland would never do it, but a Batum/DD swap would be amazing. The salaries for a simple swap works, BUT obviously portland will never do that.

[planetmars]

Ross probably has more potential but I also like his game more so I'm biased. I wish he had the work ethic that DD had but that's asking a lot since most guys in the league don't have DD's work ethic and a lot of them are still really good (I mean neither Vince or T-Mac were labeled as gym rats and they carved out pretty good careers for themselves).

I have no objection to trading DD. But can't just give him away either.. need to get something of quality (all-star caliber or loads of potential back). Wonder if Orlando would consider giving up Harris for him? Harris+Afflalo for DeRozan works

[Fanchie]

are u kidding me u just said Tross easily, I like him but DeRozan is basically better then him in everything but Defense and 3 point shooting

Deamar is also a All-star at the age of 24, do u think TRoss will be a All-star next year?
I see atleast 3-4 more all-star games for Deamar and I think TRoss will be very lucky to get 2-3

I see Demar averaging around 25-27pts/4-6a & 5r with a PER of somewhere around 19-22 in his prime
and i see TRoss averaging around 20-22pts/2-4/6r with a PER of somewhere around 17-20 in his prime

You, my friend, are reeeeaaaally ambitious!!

[imanshumpert]

Ross is a better passer and ball handler than DD. At least at the respective points in their careers.

I would say Ross is one of our better pick and roll guards on the team....he is fantastic at attacking with the dribble and hitting the roller closer to the basket than DD has ever shown. He is a better shooter, athlete, defender. I would say he is already more rounded than DD is so when Ross hits his prime, I have no doubt that he is going to be the better player.



The OP referred to who will be better "in their prime"

Dude no he isn't. There isn't any metric you can use to show that either. I wish I could find the graphic, but DeRozan is the second most efficient guard in PPP on the pick and roll after Goran Dragic. This would probably indicate that he's good at handling the ball and passing, but maybe I'm wrong. He also has a very high assist rate to turnover rate despite his high usage. I'm not sure how Ross is better at all.

[iblastoff]

Dude no he isn't. There isn't any metric you can use to show that either. I wish I could find the graphic, but DeRozan is the second most efficient guard in PPP on the pick and roll after Goran Dragic. This would probably indicate that he's good at handling the ball and passing, but maybe I'm wrong. He also has a very high assist rate to turnover rate despite his high usage. I'm not sure how Ross is better at all.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/0...ikes-the-suns/

"DeRozan’s numbers seem a little fluky. He’s shot just 41 percent out of pick-and-rolls, has recorded an assist on just 5.8 percent those 690 possessions (the fourth lowest rate of the group), and averages less than one secondary assist (where his pass directly leads to somebody else’s assist) per game. But he has drawn fouls on 9.4 percent of his pick-and-roll possessions, a rate on par with that of LeBron James."

so nope. not good at handling/passing. really good at getting to the line.

[imanshumpert]

Secret? Try lie.

Stat | DD 2nd year | DD 23 years old | Ross this year
TS%: .530 | .523 | .565
ORTG: 106 | 105 | 108
DRTG: 115 | 110 | 106
WS/48: .055 | .075 | .104

Ross is way better than any DD season until this one. Comparison also conveniently ignores DD's horriawful 3rd season.

Bit of context is necessary here.

Ross' oRTG and dRTG are really good because he's on a very good team (something that was not even close to the case for DeMar until this year). Win shares are going to be above average as a result of that combined with the fact that he gets quite a lot of minutes on a good team.

He's definitely more efficient, but let's not forget that he's a 3rd/4th option, while DeRozan was a 1st/2nd. More volume and larger offensive role usually leads to lower efficiency unless you're talking about superstar players.

[Abbas]

kk how the hell do i delete this thread

[Hennessy]

I see Demar averaging around 25-27pts/4-6a & 5r with a PER of somewhere around 19-22 in his prime

Even on the low end of your estimates, look what company demar would need to be in. Lebron, KD and Love > DeMar


http://www.basketball-reference.com/...t=&order_by=ws

[Abbas]

Even on the low end of your estimates, look what company demar would need to be in. Lebron, KD and Love > DeMar


http://www.basketball-reference.com/...t=&order_by=ws

He's not for from those stats tho, if he keeps improving like he does every year don't be surprised if he gets those

[YoungGunRaptor]

This is how I feel.

14 years ago, we had two magnificent young gun wing players on our team, whose names were Vince Carter and Tracy Mcgrady. One was a 23 or so year old all star, the other a 21 or so year old role player who was an absolute beast on the defensive end. Obviously in the years since 2000, both have gone on to have legendary careers.

But during that one magical year, the Raptors went to the playoffs for the first time, and despite getting taken down by a gritty New York team, things were looking good in Raptor land. That offseason, T Mac left, seeking glitz and glamor. The Raptors, led by Vince Carter and a host of gritty vets, made it to within 2 seconds of going to the ECF in the 2001 playoffs.

Now imagine if T Mac had stayed. There is no question that the Raptors would have overcome Allen Iverson's 76ers. Kobe Bryant himself said that had VC and T Mac stayed together, the Raptors would have been title contenders for several years.

DD And 3Ross have the potential to do the same. Demar's game compliments T Ross's long range shooting. Ross has the same elite level defensive potential that T Mac had, and even then Ross is showing the signs of becoming an elite level 3 point shooter. No, they will probably not become multiple all stars, but the fact that we can say potentially speaks volumes. So why not see what this dynamic duo can do? (Alongside Kyle Lowry, the diamond stud of this team).

Demar is the all star, the captain, the one that the league is glorifying. Yet this same guy is a team player. He has been abysmal shooting as of late, but there's no denying his leadership and intensity. DD was the one that cooled down Green after his shooting barrage on Sunday with a couple of great steals. He himself struggled, but I saw fire.


Lets not forget, we were supposed to be a mediocre tanking team this year. Instead, we are 8 games behind the Miami Heat. Explanations/excuses aside, we have still won 37 games and have the potential to set the franchise record for games won in a season.

Who cares if we win or lose in the playoffs this year. We will win because our boys will get some experience in springtime basketball.

[Ambidextrious]

Secret? Try lie.

Stat | DD 2nd year | DD 23 years old | Ross this year
TS%: .530 | .523 | .565
ORTG: 106 | 105 | 108
DRTG: 115 | 110 | 106
WS/48: .055 | .075 | .104

Ross is way better than any DD season until this one. Comparison also conveniently ignores DD's horriawful 3rd season.

Good post I'm pleased to have both players but we need to feature Terrenece and Val more in the offence.

[GLF]

This is how I feel.

14 years ago, we had two magnificent young gun wing players on our team, whose names were Vince Carter and Tracy Mcgrady. One was a 23 or so year old all star, the other a 21 or so year old role player who was an absolute beast on the defensive end. Obviously in the years since 2000, both have gone on to have legendary careers.

But during that one magical year, the Raptors went to the playoffs for the first time, and despite getting taken down by a gritty New York team, things were looking good in Raptor land. That offseason, T Mac left, seeking glitz and glamor. The Raptors, led by Vince Carter and a host of gritty vets, made it to within 2 seconds of going to the ECF in the 2001 playoffs.

Now imagine if T Mac had stayed. There is no question that the Raptors would have overcome Allen Iverson's 76ers. Kobe Bryant himself said that had VC and T Mac stayed together, the Raptors would have been title contenders for several years.

DD And 3Ross have the potential to do the same. Demar's game compliments T Ross's long range shooting. Ross has the same elite level defensive potential that T Mac had, and even then Ross is showing the signs of becoming an elite level 3 point shooter. No, they will probably not become multiple all stars, but the fact that we can say potentially speaks volumes. So why not see what this dynamic duo can do? (Alongside Kyle Lowry, the diamond stud of this team).

Demar is the all star, the captain, the one that the league is glorifying. Yet this same guy is a team player. He has been abysmal shooting as of late, but there's no denying his leadership and intensity. DD was the one that cooled down Green after his shooting barrage on Sunday with a couple of great steals. He himself struggled, but I saw fire.


Lets not forget, we were supposed to be a mediocre tanking team this year. Instead, we are 8 games behind the Miami Heat. Explanations/excuses aside, we have still won 37 games and have the potential to set the franchise record for games won in a season.

Who cares if we win or lose in the playoffs this year. We will win because our boys will get some experience in springtime basketball.

Couldn't have said it better myself. People are too quick to make an either or conversation. Why does one have to go for the other to shine? It's not like the Rudy and Demar situation where they didn't compliment each others games. Terrence compliments Demar perfectly. If Terrence has more potential than Demar we should be ecstatic! That would mean we have another potential AllStar on our team. Why argue about them when they are both on our team and are both playing well. Casey will gain trust in Terrence more and more as the years go on if he's even still the coach. Terrence will have his chance don't worry.

[Abbas]

this is how i feel.

14 years ago, we had two magnificent young gun wing players on our team, whose names were vince carter and tracy mcgrady. One was a 23 or so year old all star, the other a 21 or so year old role player who was an absolute beast on the defensive end. Obviously in the years since 2000, both have gone on to have legendary careers.

But during that one magical year, the raptors went to the playoffs for the first time, and despite getting taken down by a gritty new york team, things were looking good in raptor land. That offseason, t mac left, seeking glitz and glamor. The raptors, led by vince carter and a host of gritty vets, made it to within 2 seconds of going to the ecf in the 2001 playoffs.

Now imagine if t mac had stayed. There is no question that the raptors would have overcome allen iverson's 76ers. Kobe bryant himself said that had vc and t mac stayed together, the raptors would have been title contenders for several years.

Dd and 3ross have the potential to do the same. Demar's game compliments t ross's long range shooting. Ross has the same elite level defensive potential that t mac had, and even then ross is showing the signs of becoming an elite level 3 point shooter. No, they will probably not become multiple all stars, but the fact that we can say potentially speaks volumes. So why not see what this dynamic duo can do? (alongside kyle lowry, the diamond stud of this team).

Demar is the all star, the captain, the one that the league is glorifying. Yet this same guy is a team player. He has been abysmal shooting as of late, but there's no denying his leadership and intensity. Dd was the one that cooled down green after his shooting barrage on sunday with a couple of great steals. He himself struggled, but i saw fire.


Lets not forget, we were supposed to be a mediocre tanking team this year. Instead, we are 8 games behind the miami heat. Explanations/excuses aside, we have still won 37 games and have the potential to set the franchise record for games won in a season.

Who cares if we win or lose in the playoffs this year. We will win because our boys will get some experience in springtime basketball.

this^^^^^