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Gay to debut for Raptors on Sunday [Post #727]

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  • Sadly, Gay would be the best player on the team from day one. That alone is reason enough to trade for him.

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    • Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
      having Gay Demar and Ross with Fields is great Wing Depth if you ask me. Injuries happen.
      Gay and Ross, yes. Demar, hell no. Mr. Fade Away. I wish he'd "fade away".
      “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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      • Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
        Gay and Ross, yes. Demar, hell no. Mr. Fade Away. I wish he'd "fade away".
        Gay takes way more fade away jumpers than Demar man...or if not fade aways...long unwanted jumpers

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        • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
          Gay takes way more fade away jumpers than Demar man...or if not fade aways...long unwanted jumpers
          Balls of Steel meant DeRozan fades away as in he doesnt contribute late in the game, but not his fault he doesnt get touches on offense the one time they did he won us the game against Orlando.

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          • Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
            Balls of Steel meant DeRozan fades away as in he doesnt contribute late in the game, but not his fault he doesnt get touches on offense the one time they did he won us the game against Orlando.
            I think he meant both dude....the fading away and "fading away" are related Could be wrong

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            • Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
              Gay and Ross, yes. Demar, hell no. Mr. Fade Away. I wish he'd "fade away".
              If DeRozan isn't the "young player" going to Memphis for Gay, then I hope the Raps use him to bring in another big name player. Millsap would seem to be a mutually beneficial option. With Davis going to Memphis and Bargnani on the way out (somehow), the Raps need a starting PF moving forward. Utah is overloaded with bigs and needs help on the wings and in the backcourt, so it would seem to be (potentially) a natural fit. Of course, I'd only do it if Millsap seems inclined to re-sign with a revamped Raptors team.

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              • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                I think he meant both dude....the fading away and "fading away" are related Could be wrong
                Sorry for the confusion, I did mean both. He fades away late in games, takes too many fade aways (shying from contact) and needs to fade away (to take himself and his bloated contract away). Not a fan. BC could've sold him high on his current numbers on a rookie contract. The prob with BC is he overpays and when it's time to correct his mistakes, it costs the team. DD's extension is the latest proof of that. If Demar exceeded expectations, he can be traded and his new team determines his extension. Gay and DD on the same team with AB (if Davis is moved) is a disaster on the defensive end.
                “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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                • Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                  Sorry for the confusion, I did mean both. He fades away late in games, takes too many fade aways (shying from contact) and needs to fade away (to take himself and his bloated contract away). Not a fan. BC could've sold him high on his current numbers on a rookie contract. The prob with BC is he overpays and when it's time to correct his mistakes, it costs the team. DD's extension is the latest proof of that. If Demar exceeded expectations, he can be traded and his new team determines his extension. Gay and DD on the same team with AB (if Davis is moved) is a disaster on the defensive end.
                  I think people are a bit harsh on Demar because we've seen his flaws all too many times. I don't know that he's ever going to make an all-star game. But he's not getting paid like one. He's getting paid like a 3rd or 4th option. Maybe a 6th man. Given the going rate of starting wings in free agency, he could have easily been bid up to where he is. I totally agree it was a stupid move by BC, but I think in the future is contract will be tradeable. It's stupid for the reason you say, he could've been a huge trade chip this year, and it's a problem you see now because teams are clearly only asking for Ross.

                  The problem isn't him, it's that we don't have someone better than him. Gay isn't a big enough leap forward for what he's making. HE also doesn't bring some of the other crucial intangibles that would be helpful, like championship experience or being a very good leader (not saying he's bad, but he's not really the leader in Memphis). The thing about Demar being a 3rd option, is that the 2 better options actually have to be significantly better. Obviously with Andrea and Gay, we'd still be a mediocre team at best. And you're right, our D would probably only get worse. And I don't have the slightest clue what Bargs would return in a trade, so I don't want to speculate who else might be there instead.

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                  • Re-thinking the the Gay deal

                    At first my reaction (yesterday) was totally against this deal. I was in a rage. Now, that I had some time to actually think about, this deal starts to make a lot of sense. So hear me out:

                    First of all forget fantasies like trading Jose + Bargs for Gay and similar stuff. Ain't going to happen. But we MUST trade Calderon, otherwise next season we'll still be the same team we are right now, but minus Calderon! Who wants that? And forget the free agency, nothing interesting in the FA this coming summer, at least not for us (as if we could attract free agents anyway). And our pick goes to OKC...

                    We need a SF! The only SF with above average skill to be a FA this summer is Pierce, who'll likely be traded before the deadline next month, maybe over the next couple of days actually... But Pierce is of no interest for us - too old. The only other SF with above average talent level available for a trade is Gay. There is no other team, that will be willing to trade a borderline all-star SF for a package of Calderon and a Davis.

                    UNDERSTAND the following: nobody is really going after Calderon, only his expiring deal (dumping salary)!! The league is crowded with seriously talented PG's and those teams that are interested in Calderon are not the teams that can offer us something in return that would interest us! No realistic trades anyway!

                    So since we don't want to let Calderon's deal expire over the summer, we must use him in any way possible right NOW. The Gay deal is the ONLY deal available. Basically we are trading Ed Davis for Rudy Gay. In my eyes that is a good deal.

                    To sum up:

                    - Either we deal Calderon now or he walks in the summer and we get NOTHING in return!
                    - No team will give you back a better PG in return for Calderon + Davis (or Jose + Bargnani and not even Jose + DeRozan). So our PG will be Lowry for the foreseeable future.
                    - our biggest need is a good SF, but only Gay and Pierce are available. Forget about a good SF through free agency (Canada...)! This summer only Pierce will be available anyway.
                    - Ed Davis is not going to be an all-star, more like a good bench big and we're basically trading him straight up for Gay (borderline all-star SF). The alternative is we keep Davis and lose Jose over the summer.
                    - We are not bad enough to get a high pick over the next couple of years, so forget the Wiggins and similar dreams.

                    What we can do:

                    Get Gay for Calderon and Davis. Next, wait and see if Pau Gasol demands to be traded, attempt to offer Bargs + Kleiza (or Fields). If Gasol is not available, 2 plans of action can be followed: either before the trade deadline we can trade DeRozan for Millsap, maybe even Bargnani for Millsap if Jazz brass loses its mind for a day. Otherwise we wait till summer, amnesty Bargnani and attempt to sign Millsap through FA. If Jazz agreed to TRADE Millsap, the rest of the job would be easy for a GM. Lots of different things can be done after that...

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                    • white men can't jump wrote: View Post
                      I think people are a bit harsh on Demar because we've seen his flaws all too many times. I don't know that he's ever going to make an all-star game. But he's not getting paid like one. He's getting paid like a 3rd or 4th option. Maybe a 6th man. Given the going rate of starting wings in free agency, he could have easily been bid up to where he is. I totally agree it was a stupid move by BC, but I think in the future is contract will be tradeable. It's stupid for the reason you say, he could've been a huge trade chip this year, and it's a problem you see now because teams are clearly only asking for Ross.

                      The problem isn't him, it's that we don't have someone better than him. Gay isn't a big enough leap forward for what he's making. HE also doesn't bring some of the other crucial intangibles that would be helpful, like championship experience or being a very good leader (not saying he's bad, but he's not really the leader in Memphis). The thing about Demar being a 3rd option, is that the 2 better options actually have to be significantly better. Obviously with Andrea and Gay, we'd still be a mediocre team at best. And you're right, our D would probably only get worse. And I don't have the slightest clue what Bargs would return in a trade, so I don't want to speculate who else might be there instead.
                      I think that Demar on last year of his rookie contract + current numbers is better than Demar with new contract extension + current numbers, whether teams are asking for him or not.
                      “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

                      Comment


                      • If Demar really gets it after the 1st year of his second contract (2014-2015), then I'd say it's a good contract. I'm just not optimistic he'll get there.
                        “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

                        Comment


                        • BadDinosaur wrote: View Post
                          At first my reaction (yesterday) was totally against this deal. I was in a rage. Now, that I had some time to actually think about, this deal starts to make a lot of sense. So hear me out:

                          First of all forget fantasies like trading Jose + Bargs for Gay and similar stuff. Ain't going to happen. But we MUST trade Calderon, otherwise next season we'll still be the same team we are right now, but minus Calderon! Who wants that? And forget the free agency, nothing interesting in the FA this coming summer, at least not for us (as if we could attract free agents anyway). And our pick goes to OKC...

                          We need a SF! The only SF with above average skill to be a FA this summer is Pierce, who'll likely be traded before the deadline next month, maybe over the next couple of days actually... But Pierce is of no interest for us - too old. The only other SF with above average talent level available for a trade is Gay. There is no other team, that will be willing to trade a borderline all-star SF for a package of Calderon and a Davis.

                          UNDERSTAND the following: nobody is really going after Calderon, only his expiring deal (dumping salary)!! The league is crowded with seriously talented PG's and those teams that are interested in Calderon are not the teams that can offer us something in return that would interest us! No realistic trades anyway!

                          So since we don't want to let Calderon's deal expire over the summer, we must use him in any way possible right NOW. The Gay deal is the ONLY deal available. Basically we are trading Ed Davis for Rudy Gay. In my eyes that is a good deal.

                          To sum up:

                          - Either we deal Calderon now or he walks in the summer and we get NOTHING in return!
                          - No team will give you back a better PG in return for Calderon + Davis (or Jose + Bargnani and not even Jose + DeRozan). So our PG will be Lowry for the foreseeable future.
                          - our biggest need is a good SF, but only Gay and Pierce are available. Forget about a good SF through free agency (Canada...)! This summer only Pierce will be available anyway.
                          - Ed Davis is not going to be an all-star, more like a good bench big and we're basically trading him straight up for Gay (borderline all-star SF). The alternative is we keep Davis and lose Jose over the summer.
                          - We are not bad enough to get a high pick over the next couple of years, so forget the Wiggins and similar dreams.

                          What we can do:

                          Get Gay for Calderon and Davis. Next, wait and see if Pau Gasol demands to be traded, attempt to offer Bargs + Kleiza (or Fields). If Gasol is not available, 2 plans of action can be followed: either before the trade deadline we can trade DeRozan for Millsap, maybe even Bargnani for Millsap if Jazz brass loses its mind for a day. Otherwise we wait till summer, amnesty Bargnani and attempt to sign Millsap through FA. If Jazz agreed to TRADE Millsap, the rest of the job would be easy for a GM. Lots of different things can be done after that...
                          Not to offend you but have you been reading the boards lately?

                          Its a good summary tho, of everything thats been pretty much discussed in recent days.

                          Comment


                          • The crazy-ass trade that involves Gay and Toronto that I would consider doing. Assumption 1: Boston is blowing it up and therefore more willing to take Jose than Lowry, and also will look to trade Pierce if they have to deal someone. Assumption #2: Memphis doesn't want any big name player/contract back.

                            http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a2hjvq2

                            Why I would want it for Toronto? Instead of getting a guy who failed to live up to his potential, we get 2 guys who are clearly declining, but both champions who have been legit #1 options on playoff teams, and though maybe not cut out to carry that load, know what it takes and will easily give us a shot at the playoffs for a couple of years. We wouldn't give up any of our young key pieces, and would still get to see if Lowry can fit. All the big money comes off the books in 2014, so our long term flexibility is not compromised at all since we likely wouldn't be big players in free agency this year (trades are the most likely avenue for change I think).
                            What about the other teams?
                            LA gets younger, more athletic, and 2 guys who should both fit in well with D'Antoni. If Bargs can't thrive as the 4th or 5th option on a team like that, with Dwight Howard anchoring the D, well then he won't fit in anywhere. Money's probably the concern from LA's point of view, but I think they can manage to make trades if they need change. THey always seem to somehow.
                            Memphis gets exactly what they want.....depth, outside shooting, and a reduction of their long-term salary commitments. They'd still have to commit some to Johnson and Lee, but I think both those guys can keep them competitive with their current core, and AA and Jamison would give them depth and shooting. Lee has length in his deal, but could provide good value as it's not too costly.
                            Boston also gets what they want...again, assuming they give up on this season. Jose relieves some hefty money in the offseason. Gray and Hill give them a huge big, which they need, and an athletic big, which they also need. Fields is the tough pill to swallow, but the consolation is if they will suck with Rondo out(and he's out into next season), and they have no plan for PG next year, Fields won't hinder any tanking plans. I'm sure there might be other ways to make it work for them, but I think some cap relief and depth up front to ease KG's load might be priorities. The flip side of taking back Fields is they unload Lee (cheaper but longer), who may be unhappy playing with Rondo, apparently.

                            It may seem crazy or unrealistic, but in this deal we would give up none of our young pieces. Not Ed, or JV, or Ross. And we'd still get to see what Lowry has to offer.

                            Oh, and I forgot to add that next year, Pierce and Gasol could both easily be hugely attractive trade pieces again, with their championship experience and expiring contracts.
                            Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Jan 30, 2013, 01:24 PM.

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                            • TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                              Not to offend you but have you been reading the boards lately?

                              Its a good summary tho, of everything thats been pretty much discussed in recent days.
                              I'm sorry, I do not really have the time to read everything, but I took some time to think this through on my own, so I just posted all that I had on my mind. If it serves as a summary of everything that already has been told, then great! Feels still useful

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                              • BadDinosaur wrote: View Post
                                I'm sorry, I do not really have the time to read everything, but I took some time to think this through on my own, so I just posted all that I had on my mind. If it serves as a summary of everything that already has been told, then great! Feels still useful
                                I wouldn't worry about it.

                                Gary Payton has always been known to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder ;P

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