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Triano Finally calls out Demar and Barg's Effort

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  • #16
    The passing straight into the arms of the opposing team is becoming a trend. Demar, Jose, and even JB are primary offenders. it is disgusting to watch.

    Also, watching Demar melt into a puddle and turn the ball over when double teamed was tough to watch. I'm sure he will learn from that one when they show the video to him.

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    • #17
      black angus wrote: View Post
      Jay should have been calling out Demar's passing - after the Spurs game the book on Demar will be to double him in the half court and he will turn the ball over. There were three possessions within about 3 minutes in the second half and his passes were absolutely brutal. However, my favorite was the Raptor's first possession - Demar had the ball on the wing, Bargs was on the weakside post, Amir or Julian set a screen for Bargs who game across the key to the ball. If Demar had passed the ball when he should of Bargs would have had a dunk or layup - instead he held if for 2 seconds too long and made a horrible pass for a turnover. You don't even see that stuff in senior high school ball - classic.
      Yeah, he's playing like a guy who's only played 120 games in the league.

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      • #18
        MangoKid wrote: View Post
        Who else is gonna play? Johnson's hurting too. Davis is playing big minutes, Kleiza's out. They're relying on Bargnani to score and do everything on offense. Try playing when your knees are messed up. I can guarantee that your game goes out the window.
        Bargnani played more minutes than both Amir and Davis. And Dorsey played all of two minutes.

        As for playing when your knees are messed up, I don't think you have any idea who you're talking to. I'm currently out with my 4th major knee injury since I was 20. And that's not counting the numerous times my knee(s) simply hurt or I tweaked them. I've played most of my adult life on bad knees. At my age, EVERYTHING hurts when you play. I've played when I couldn't walk up the stairs. I've played with torn ligament in my ankle. I've played with dislocated and broken fingers. I've played with concussions, a fractured orbit bone (so I couldn't feel half my face), a chipped vertebrae (I can't tell you how painful that was), numerous sprains and I always played hard, especially on defense. The only times I have not played is when playing would cause great harm to an injury (and even then sometimes). And I've never once been paid to play basketball. Obviously there were times when I had to alter my game because of some injury, but I never played with the lack of energy that Bargnani did. There were obviously things I could not do that I could normally do, but I always found a way to help my team win.

        Playing injured is not an excuse. Believe me. I never, ever want to hear that someone couldn't give full effort because he was injured.
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        • #19
          Apollo wrote: View Post
          Different players need to be handled different ways. Phil Jackson doesn't manage everybody the same because he understands psychology. Jay knows the players far better than anyone observing from a far. He should know what will get a positive response out of his players by now and as such I have to take his side for this. I don't care if he doesn't have hardware on his fingers, the guy knows his players. He's been a Raptors fixture for what feels like eons now.

          When Sam Mitchell took over coaching the Raptors he handled everyone the same, which was in your face yelling. I can understand why he was like it, the team was soft and had some certain bad veteran influences who thought they had the right to dog it *cough* Vince Carter *cough*. He was giving them a wake up call. Tough love. As he matured he learned that he couldn't do this all the time and that it doesn't work on everybody anyway. Everybody is different. Everybody needs different forms of encouragement and different levels of pressure. I think he said as much in an interview after he was gone.
          I have no problem with coaches being tough on their players, but going to the media should be an absolute last resort, and it's unfortunately not with a lot of coaches. Don Nelson and Larry Brown are two long time coaches who tend to alienate players because they speak to the media too much. Jerry Sloan and Gregg Popovich are both hard nosed coaches who don't tend to air their dirty laundry.

          I don't have a problem with what Triano did, but some fans seem to want him to do it all the time, and that wouldn't work.
          Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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          • #20
            Employee wrote: View Post
            Triano and BC need to go. That is all I am going to say.

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            • #21
              Tim W. wrote: View Post
              Bargnani played more minutes than both Amir and Davis. And Dorsey played all of two minutes.

              As for playing when your knees are messed up, I don't think you have any idea who you're talking to. I'm currently out with my 4th major knee injury since I was 20. And that's not counting the numerous times my knee(s) simply hurt or I tweaked them. I've played most of my adult life on bad knees. At my age, EVERYTHING hurts when you play. I've played when I couldn't walk up the stairs. I've played with torn ligament in my ankle. I've played with dislocated and broken fingers. I've played with concussions, a fractured orbit bone (so I couldn't feel half my face), a chipped vertebrae (I can't tell you how painful that was), numerous sprains and I always played hard, especially on defense. The only times I have not played is when playing would cause great harm to an injury (and even then sometimes). And I've never once been paid to play basketball. Obviously there were times when I had to alter my game because of some injury, but I never played with the lack of energy that Bargnani did. There were obviously things I could not do that I could normally do, but I always found a way to help my team win.

              Playing injured is not an excuse. Believe me. I never, ever want to hear that someone couldn't give full effort because he was injured.
              I played football with ripped ligaments in my knee, so I know exactly how it is to have messed up knees and to try to play through pain. So I don't think you want to be calling me out.

              You're not as effective when you have something bothering you like a knee injury and trying to play at a high level. It's not like you're playing pickup ball at the Y or CIS ball. This is the highest level of ball in the world. This team is such a mash unit, it's not like they can afford to rest Bargnani in order for him to recover.

              Then again, in terms of Bargnani, I can see his knees getting in the way on the offensive end because if your knees are not in your shot, chances are, that ball isn't as likely to go in the hoop. However, have we ever really seen him play with emotion or any real effort? Even when healthy healthy, it looks like he doesn't put out much effort on the defensive end anyway.

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              • #22
                MangoKid wrote: View Post
                I played football with ripped ligaments in my knee, so I know exactly how it is to have messed up knees and to try to play through pain. So I don't think you want to be calling me out.

                You're not as effective when you have something bothering you like a knee injury and trying to play at a high level. It's not like you're playing pickup ball at the Y or CIS ball. This is the highest level of ball in the world. This team is such a mash unit, it's not like they can afford to rest Bargnani in order for him to recover.

                Then again, in terms of Bargnani, I can see his knees getting in the way on the offensive end because if your knees are not in your shot, chances are, that ball isn't as likely to go in the hoop. However, have we ever really seen him play with emotion or any real effort? Even when healthy healthy, it looks like he doesn't put out much effort on the defensive end anyway.
                I'm not calling you out, but you said...

                Try playing when your knees are messed up. I can guarantee that your game goes out the window.
                I obviously have. And obviously haven't played at a high level, but my complaint is not in his effectiveness on the offensive end. It never has been. I'm never going to bash a guy for having a few games where he can't hit a shot. Anyone who's ever played or even watched basketball knows that happens on a frequent basis. The problem with Bargnani, though, is when he's not hitting he's a complete liability. When I'm hurting, I try and find a way to be effective. That's what all good players do.

                I remember a game earlier this year when Tim Duncan couldn't score, so he became a passer and helped his team win, and when asked about it, Duncan simply said he realized he couldn't hit a shot, so he better pass the ball, instead. Makes sense. Good players find a way to be effective. I don't care about emotion. I care about effectiveness.
                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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                • #23
                  Tim W. wrote: View Post
                  I obviously have. And obviously haven't played at a high level, but my complaint is not in his effectiveness on the offensive end. It never has been. I'm never going to bash a guy for having a few games where he can't hit a shot. Anyone who's ever played or even watched basketball knows that happens on a frequent basis. The problem with Bargnani, though, is when he's not hitting he's a complete liability. When I'm hurting, I try and find a way to be effective. That's what all good players do.

                  I remember a game earlier this year when Tim Duncan couldn't score, so he became a passer and helped his team win, and when asked about it, Duncan simply said he realized he couldn't hit a shot, so he better pass the ball, instead. Makes sense. Good players find a way to be effective. I don't care about emotion. I care about effectiveness.
                  I take back what I said to you and you're right, I'm sorry. You're right. When your shot isn't falling, your focus should be on other aspects of the game. What shouldn't be spared every night is a lack of effort, running up and down the court - I know with his knees, it's a problem to do that, but he should have been trying to be a better passer, trying to box out, playing with more emotion, but as we all know, him being in his 5th season now, that really isn't Andrea's game.

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                  • #24
                    Tim W. wrote: View Post
                    I have no problem with coaches being tough on their players, but going to the media should be an absolute last resort, and it's unfortunately not with a lot of coaches. Don Nelson and Larry Brown are two long time coaches who tend to alienate players because they speak to the media too much. Jerry Sloan and Gregg Popovich are both hard nosed coaches who don't tend to air their dirty laundry.

                    I don't have a problem with what Triano did, but some fans seem to want him to do it all the time, and that wouldn't work.
                    How often does Jay complain to the media about his players? Not very often. That should tell you a lot about his actions on this. I am behind it 100%. You can't pull out the big guns all the time or it loses it's effect but once in a while it's good. I don't expect Jay to change his philosophy.

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                    • #25
                      Apollo wrote: View Post
                      Yeah, he's playing like a guy who's only played 120 games in the league.
                      The pass he made on the first possession is a mistake that would see you benched in JV ball. A set play was run with the first option being an entry pass to Bargs off a screen - pretty basic stuff - and he F'ed it up.

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                      • #26
                        I still say there's no sense in playing injured players heavy minutes during a development season, when you have prospects getting no playing time. Granted the past few games have been close and winnable, but Bargnani was at no point during the last game effective. At a certain point, you cut your losses, and realise a prospect that needs playing time to develop can't be much that much worse of an option than overplaying injured starters.

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                        • #27
                          Putting Dorsey in instead, for example, to counter DeJuan Blair. Much more sensible.

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                          • #28
                            Well , it was a sh*t show across the board last night. At the end of the first it looked like Bargs was doing awesome, his falling out of bounds wild shot plus the fould would have been all over espn if we had won the game. Then he reverted to 3pt mode, for whatever reason, and wasnt effective. What really killed us was the turnovers. DD and Jose and JB were the main culprits. Bargs' missed shots and defense on Dejuan was harsh, but those turnovers lead directly to points each and every time, got the fans into it, and killed our pop. Overall everyone played well and sucked at different moments in the game. At least no Kleiza, i wonder how bad we would have lost if he was playing.

                            PS- Juju's pass to Caldy was a thing of beauty

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                            • #29
                              jeff_hostetler wrote: View Post
                              I still say there's no sense in playing injured players heavy minutes during a development season, when you have prospects getting no playing time. Granted the past few games have been close and winnable, but Bargnani was at no point during the last game effective. At a certain point, you cut your losses, and realise a prospect that needs playing time to develop can't be much that much worse of an option than overplaying injured starters.
                              +1

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                              • #30
                                black angus wrote: View Post
                                The pass he made on the first possession is a mistake that would see you benched in JV ball. A set play was run with the first option being an entry pass to Bargs off a screen - pretty basic stuff - and he F'ed it up.
                                In the NBA, you're not going to bench one of your best players because of one bad pass. DeRozan gave effort the entire game. When San Antonio started doubling him, he had no idea what to do, probably not having seen a double team since high school. Handling double teams is obviously something DeRozan needs to work on, but that game was the first time I ever remember seeing him doubled.
                                Read my blog, The Picket Fence. Guaranteed to make you think or your money back!
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