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  • #76
    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Fields starting with Gay is better than DeMar starting with Gay. Fields has great off ball movement so that really helps the offensive movement. Once Fields gets his shot back, he'll be much more effective. I love DeMar too, but he won't fit in well with Gay being the #1 option. Just not enough movement and too many long two's
    Theres a big If there and if Fields doesnt get his shot back the Raps are fucked. People are not easy to please DeMar DeRozan is not whats wrong with the Toronto Raptors, Fields doesn't even play well against the opposing teams bench besides grab boards...and play ok Defense.

    Players know Fields cant shoot its only going to bring more attention to Gay and JV in the post having Fields beside Lowry, If his defender is playing him honest he cant do the cuts he does plying with DeRozan.Gay or both he cant take people off the dribble and defenders know he cant shoot is going to make defenders pack the paint even more...Its not a good thing.

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    • #77
      Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
      Theres a big If there and if Fields doesnt get his shot back the Raps are fucked. People are not easy to please DeMar DeRozan is not whats wrong with the Toronto Raptors, Fields doesn't even play well against the opposing teams bench besides grab boards...and play ok Defense.

      Players know Fields cant shoot its only going to bring more attention to Gay and JV in the post having Fields beside Lowry, If his defender is playing him honest he cant do the cuts he does plying with DeRozan.Gay or both he cant take people off the dribble and defenders know he cant shoot is going to make defenders pack the paint even more...Its not a good thing.
      I agree with this. We can't base our situation on potential any longer...we're already doing that with JV and Ross. If we really want to get rid of DeRozan, trade him for someone who brings the same tangibles as Fields + a jumper.
      Twitter - @thekid_it

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      • #78
        I voted DeRozan, as I've been pushing for him to be traded ever since the Gay trade. I just think he's the Raptors' best trade asset and would return the best player in trade (combination of age, talent, potential and salary).

        Ross
        - BC said he was "untouchable" at the trade deadline
        - team needs to keep some cheaper players, given that they're already nearly a tax team
        - rookie-scale salary will limit options of player(s) that could be received in trade
        - not enough of a sweetener for a combo deal with Bargnani (I think DeRozan > Bargnani + Ross)

        Fields
        - injury risk and bloated contract make him untradeable
        - worth more to the Raptors if he improves (glue guy similar to Anthony Parker, ideally) than he's worth right now as a trade asset


        I don't like a starting lineup that includes both Gay and DeRozan, since they're both high-volume, low-efficiency shooters. Combined, they take a huge number of shots to score their points. Neither is a great 3pt shooter, neither is a great defender or rebounder (Gay is much better than DeRozan at both) and neither consistently puts up significant assist numbers. Check out their shooting stats since the beginning of March: high-volume, low-efficiency shooting on display... not for the weak of heart!

        DATE (Opponent) / Gay / DeRozan / Combined
        April 6 (Bucks) / 1-10 / 6-14 / 7-24 (29.2%)
        April 5 (Wolves) / 12-23 / 12-23 / 24-46 (52.2%)
        April 3 (Wizards) / 2-8 / 11-21 / 13-29 (44.8%)
        April 1 (Pistons) / 13-18 / 7-17 / 20-35 (57.1%)
        March 31 (Wizards) / 4-10 / 6-18 / 10-28 (35.7%)
        March 29 (Pistons) / 7-14 / 10-20 / 17-34 (50.0%)
        March 27 (Hawks) / 6-14 / 5-14 / 11-28 (39.3%)
        March 23 (Knicks) / DNP / 7-15 / 7-15 (46.7%)
        March 22 (Knicks) / 2-7 / 7-14 / 9-21 (42.9%)
        March 20 (Bobcats) / 8-18 / 7-12 / 15-30 (50.0%)
        March 17 (Heat) / 11-20 / 5-17 / 16-37 (43.2%)
        March 15 (Bobcats) / 11-16 / 1-5 / 12-21 (57.1%)
        March 13 (Celtics) / 7-19 / 5-13 / 12-32 (37.5%)
        March 10 (Cavs) / DNP / 3-13 / 3-13 (23.1%)
        March 8 (Lakers) / 7-26 / 12-18 / 19-44 (43.2%)
        March 6 (Suns) / 2-7 / 7-13 / 9-20 (45.0%)
        March 4 (Warriors) / 10-22 / 6-13 / 16-35 (45.7%)
        March 2 (Bucks) / DNP / 6-21 / 6-21 (28.6%)
        March 1 (Pacers) / 7-16 / 2-10 / 9-26 (34.6%)
        19 GAMES TOTAL / 110-248 (44.4%) / 125-300 (41.7%) / 235-548 (42.9%)
        19 GAMES AVERAGE / - / - / 12.4-28.8 (43%) [with 3 DNP]


        I much prefer a more balanced starting lineup and I think Fields would be an ideal fit with Gay, Lowry, Valanciunas and an upgraded starting PF with a solid low-post offensive game to draw more double-teams (ie: Millsap). Fields provides the best perimeter defense and is the only wing player that can play well off the ball. His shot seems to be returning and if he can consistenly knock down open 3pt shots next season, I can seem him being an Anthony Parker style glue-guy for this Raptors team.

        A DeRozan for Millsap (S&T) deal would seem to be a great fit for both teams, but would be dependent on Millsap wanting to sign with Toronto - Toronto is an up-and-coming team with lots of young talent, which can offer him lots of money (starting at up to $11.975M if traded just for DeRozan) and a starting PF role, so who knows...

        I also think a much improved 2nd unit could be built around Johnson & Ross.

        Ideally Bargnani and the MLE can then be used to address the remaining holes on the roster - backup PG & 4th wing. I even wonder if Bargnani & 2nd round pick would be enough to land Ridnour & Williams from Minnesota?? A trade like that would fill both holes without spending the MLE.

        Bottom line is that DeRozan seems to be the obvious choice to me.
        Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Apr 8, 2013, 12:31 PM.

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        • #79
          I think all three will return next season. If BC is able to trade Bargnani and somehow lands a solid PF in the offseason and still the team falls in a rut during the regular season, we might see one of these three go mid-season. I'd say Demar would probably be it.

          I've seen a couple of Raptors games wherein the feed is from the opposing team, and broadcasters always point out the threat of Demar and Gay playing together. The stats may not show it, but watching Gay and Demar play together clearly shows the Raptors having 2 major offensive threats on the floor at the same time. I think the issue is that both are not exceptional jump shooters, so when one drives and kicks out, the other has no option but to shoot rather than drive, same reason why Lowry has taken so many threes this year.

          Id prefer to start Fields over Demar and let Demar do the scoring on the 2nd unit. Of course that wont be possible due to egos, so most likely we'd see Demar go.

          Comment


          • #80
            Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
            Theres a big If there and if Fields doesnt get his shot back the Raps are fucked. People are not easy to please DeMar DeRozan is not whats wrong with the Toronto Raptors, Fields doesn't even play well against the opposing teams bench besides grab boards...and play ok Defense.

            Players know Fields cant shoot its only going to bring more attention to Gay and JV in the post having Fields beside Lowry, If his defender is playing him honest he cant do the cuts he does plying with DeRozan.Gay or both he cant take people off the dribble and defenders know he cant shoot is going to make defenders pack the paint even more...Its not a good thing.
            An unhealthy Fields already posts similar shooting percentages from similar distances as DD but he also moves off the ball, plays defense, and rebounds. I disagree with OK defense but even that is a step up from DeMar.

            Your second paragraph make it sound like DeMar is a spot up scoring threat. When has he ever spot up for a jumper? He works off screens, ISOs for pull up jump shots, or in the post. He does not create space for his teammates.

            Comment


            • #81
              TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
              I think all three will return next season. If BC is able to trade Bargnani and somehow lands a solid PF in the offseason and still the team falls in a rut during the regular season, we might see one of these three go mid-season. I'd say Demar would probably be it.

              I've seen a couple of Raptors games wherein the feed is from the opposing team, and broadcasters always point out the threat of Demar and Gay playing together. The stats may not show it, but watching Gay and Demar play together clearly shows the Raptors having 2 major offensive threats on the floor at the same time. I think the issue is that both are not exceptional jump shooters, so when one drives and kicks out, the other has no option but to shoot rather than drive, same reason why Lowry has taken so many threes this year.

              Id prefer to start Fields over Demar and let Demar do the scoring on the 2nd unit. Of course that wont be possible due to egos, so most likely we'd see Demar go.
              That is interesting.

              But then Ross becomes redundant.

              Comment


              • #82
                NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                Fields starting with Gay is better than DeMar starting with Gay. Fields has great off ball movement so that really helps the offensive movement. Once Fields gets his shot back, he'll be much more effective. I love DeMar too, but he won't fit in well with Gay being the #1 option. Just not enough movement and too many long two's
                You should probably change your Avatar...... the Dumbest thing you ever said was Fields is better than Demar starting with Gay. Are you serious???? Honestly, how so? Where's the evidence of this? Fields has played limited minutes because he can't shoot, misses layups and NOBODY even tries to guard him.

                ALSO

                When did Rudy become this great passer??
                Why do you think fields will even be useful? Are you that impressed by his play to declare him a starter?

                Fields is a scrub - to be bluntly honest. He's not a starter. You and Matt52 can hope for the best all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that he sucked last year and he sucks this year. He's damaged goods and he's overpaid. We need to get rid of him and keep Demar (If possible).

                PLUS - When it comes to the ball movement..... Who is to blame for that?? Doesn't Lowry and Casey have more to blame? "Here Rudy, Here Demar ....now go get us a basket" THATS what i see every game. Jose got others involved (see ED and AMIR) and i know he would've built good chemistry with JV as well. Please take off your homer glasses for a second here......DD is fine, he'll be better.

                I would honestly get rid of Lowry and Gay (an overpaid less efficient version of Demar).

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                • #83
                  Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  That is interesting.

                  But then Ross becomes redundant.
                  Hhhmm, that is true.

                  Unless Ross plays the 3.

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                  • #84
                    Matt52 wrote: View Post
                    An unhealthy Fields already posts similar shooting percentages from similar distances as DD but he also moves off the ball, plays defense, and rebounds. I disagree with OK defense but even that is a step up from DeMar.
                    Fields' percentages are not much different but he would be a tremendous downgrade offensively. Defensively, yes I agree he would be an upgrade. The point I'm making is, if Demar is traded, the player coming in should be able to replace Demars offence.

                    As far the starting SG goes, I'd rather see Ross be the one.
                    Attitude Is A Choice.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                      Fields starting with Gay is better than DeMar starting with Gay. Fields has great off ball movement so that really helps the offensive movement. Once Fields gets his shot back, he'll be much more effective. I love DeMar too, but he won't fit in well with Gay being the #1 option. Just not enough movement and too many long two's
                      Maybe we should expect the coach to create an offence where his players move without the ball rather than expect the players to do so themselves. Fields comes from Harvard and evidently plays the game in a much smarter fashion than anyone else on this team and is the only one who moves without the ball. This team needs a better coach whose offence is predicated on ball movement. On that note bring in Brian Shaw. To answer the post, I don't see any reason why all three aren't here next year. Gay is probably not the answer long-term (although I would love to be surprised) and this team's success will hinge on the development of Valanciunas et al.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                        Fields' percentages are not much different but he would be a tremendous downgrade offensively. Defensively, yes I agree he would be an upgrade. The point I'm making is, if Demar is traded, the player coming in should be able to replace Demars offence.

                        As far the starting SG goes, I'd rather see Ross be the one.
                        I agree, but it doesn't need to be done from a player at the same position. I'd like to see DeRozan traded for a more offensively proven starting PF, to provide a more consistent low-post threat that is capable of drawing double-teams. This would also give the Raps another option for running their game, which could help improve overall team ball movement. With an upgraded starting PF and an improved Valanciunas (in addition to Gay & Lowry), there should be no shortage of offense.

                        Also, with one less player in the lineup that needs the ball in his hands, it should give Lowry more opportunity to use his dribble (ie: his natural game). He's turning into a good playmaker, but it's often come at the expense of his own offense, since he's so focused on getting other players involved and deferring to Gay & DeRozan.

                        That lineup needs a guy who can play off the ball and knock down open 3pt shots that come about as a result of ball movement - Fields could provide that. Plus, Fields would be a huge defensive upgrade over DeRozan.

                        Ross is better suited for 6th man sparkplug at this point. The starting lineup doesn't need his offense and he's still making too many rookie mistakes to be relied upon as a starter. I think it would be good for his long-term confidence to develop in the 2nd unit, where there's much less pressure on him.

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                        • #87
                          Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          Funny how in 3 years in the NBA he has been the starting SG on a playoff team twice. Take off the homer shades.

                          Do you think DeMar and Gay have actually clicked? The Raptors record says no, OffRtg and DefRtg also give a big fat no.
                          I hate to do this to you.....BUT you have some DUFF Beer Homer glasses on if you seriously think Landry Fields is a starter. I like fields....BUT he's a scrub plain and simple. He's not worth his pay cheque (EVERYONE knows this Matt!) Is this what you've come to? Is Landry Fields now the answer?

                          Have you even watched him play in the playoffs??? Check his stats in the playoffs that you speak of...

                          http://www.nba.com/playerfile/landry...eer_stats.html

                          Let's here the excuses.....

                          YOU wanted the inefficient Rudy Gay (you even managed to convince some of us that it was the right thing to do). Did you see what it did to our "flexibility"?? If i'm not mistaken you also liked the Lowry trade (giving up our 1st rounder)......Look what this did for us.....We're a freaking lottery team dude! I'm an optimistic person at heart.....BUT this is the least optimistic i've ever been about this team.

                          Fields is a scrub right now. He was never that good to begin with! Please be honest......no more kool aid! Next your going to say that Andrea Bargnani is going to bounce back and give us a good year next year. LOL

                          This is what i know.... DD >>>>>>>LF. Without telling us who would come back in a trade......how the fcuk does LF starting at SG improve our team??? Are we really HOPING again?? Do we not remember what happens when hope gets in the way of reality?

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                          • #88
                            TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                            Hhhmm, that is true.

                            Unless Ross plays the 3.
                            This idea of Ross playing the three is crazy, the guy weighs something like 185 on a good day and doesn't have the body to put on weight.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                              Fields' percentages are not much different but he would be a tremendous downgrade offensively. Defensively, yes I agree he would be an upgrade. The point I'm making is, if Demar is traded, the player coming in should be able to replace Demars offence.
                              I don't agree that you have to replace scoring with scoring (just look at swapping Gay for Prince in Memphis). Especially when you talk about a scorer who doesn't create a lot of space for others. For instance, I think a line-up with Channing Frye (right corner man) and someone like Anderson (left corner man - as mainly spot up shooter and defender) spreading the floor, lots of PnR with Valanciunas/Lowry, combined with post-ups (Gay and Valanciunas) and Lowry driving and dishing would be a worse offensive team.

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                              • #90
                                Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                                Fields' percentages are not much different but he would be a tremendous downgrade offensively. Defensively, yes I agree he would be an upgrade. The point I'm making is, if Demar is traded, the player coming in should be able to replace Demars offence.

                                As far the starting SG goes, I'd rather see Ross be the one.
                                I disagree that DeRozan's offence would need to be replaced in any trade involving him, whether it be from a return of another SG or a PF as CalgaryRapsFan suggested. If he was moved, I would argue his offence production could be displaced (?) to other members of the team. Assuming the team next year has better offensive flow and ball movement, Fields would easily pick up 8-10ppg being a starter. JV will also be producing more next year, that's a given barring injury. Furthermore, if Lowry was being utilized appropriately, he would score more and help pick up the missing offensive production left by Demar's departure. The team would have to play much different than it does now, and that's a good thing either way, but I'm sure the 17ppg can be made up elsewhere on the roster.

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