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Should the Raptors Take a Bite at Anthony Randolph?

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  • #31
    LBF wrote: View Post
    completely ignoring randolph and his ability.

    why the hell would you want to add at least another 10 years to the raptors ever having a chance to compete for a championship or even playoffs?

    the knciks are already rolling with amare and felton and you want to trade for some piece of shit player to help the knicks get CARMELO FUCKING ANTHONY!!!!!!!!!!

    you sure you're a raptors fan?
    Go back and re-read my post.

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    • #32
      Can he play SF?

      Then yes, why not.

      If he can't then no. We should stockpile talent and everything, but like, he'll get no PT.

      Comment


      • #33
        Take that deal. All day, every day.

        Look, the pick the Raps will be looking at is likely outside the top-5 unless they get lucky with the ping-pong balls, and even more likely to be outside the top 8. They also have the assets available to make a play for a pick from a fringe playoff team looking to dump salary.
        Randolph is a kid with that rare combination of crazy athleticism, dynamic skill set and genuine fire that can make a player unstoppable. What he hasn't had is a defined role, a system to grow into and the time and touches to make it happen.

        If you make this deal, think about the team's starting lineup after two years of development and roster stability:

        Bayless
        DeRozan
        Randolph
        Davis
        Bargnani

        Tell me that doesn't make your balls tingle with the sheer potential and combination of skill sets that group brings to the table.

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        • #34
          if any of your balls tingle at a 5 MAN combination, im going to.... do nothing... because that would be a hate crime, and im no gay basher.

          Comment


          • #35
            South_Side_Jane wrote: View Post
            all the knicks want in return is a first round draft pick so they can use it for the melo trade.
            we can send them miami first round. any thoughts ? than we can trade reggie and dorsey or waive dorsey

            Source: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archiv...rade_for_melo/
            Player with the dreaded word "potential" - too skinny to play the 4 and not laterally quick to play the 3. I'll pass.

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            • #36
              pesterm1 wrote: View Post
              so what?? Lamar Odom is 6'10. Did you even click my link ??? He played as a small forward before the NBA. one inche doesnt matter, its his skillset not only his height and weight. IMO
              http://www.nbadraft.net/players/anthony-randolph
              I was responding to this. How is 6'11" too small to play power forward? That's what I'm talking about. I don't need the link for that.
              It's about money

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              • #37
                Not to mention, D'Antoni plays a characteristically tight rotation and Randolph would be battling for a rotation spot from either Wilson Chandler or Danilo Gallinari. Is he going to beat those guys out? No. In the current system, those guys are damned near indispensable (despite Gallinari's inconsistency, he's needed to jack the threes, and not needed so much in terms of rebounding in light of the incredible numbers that a 2nd round guard is putting up in the rebounding department).

                I think Randolph plays the perfect type of defense for our team, actually. He plays strong help defense, has a great propensity to block shots (although mostly due to his length and athleticism, but I'll take the blocks regardless of that fact) and rebounds well. Plus, he IS 21. Don't you think that with the right type of commitment to develop his lateral quicks and positioning, and shot, he could be a good pickup?

                If it is inevitable that the Knicks end up with Carmelo, then we might as well steal a piece here and there as well. It's a low risk investment in this case (assuming CA > KNICKS inevitability) and we are in a development stage. We need to be thinking about 2-4 years from now, and not worried about what the Knicks are going to do this year, next year... or really what they are going to do at all. The Raptors cannot control what they Knicks develop into, but they CAN control many aspects of what the RAPTORS will develop into. That is the prime consideration here.
                It's about money

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                • #38
                  smushmush wrote: View Post
                  Player with the dreaded word "potential" - too skinny to play the 4 and not laterally quick to play the 3. I'll pass.
                  He has the quicks to play the 3. He has not had the chance.

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                  • #39
                    Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                    Bayless
                    DeRozan
                    Randolph
                    Davis
                    Bargnani
                    I think that unit is still missing a second shooter at the wing but either DeRozan or Randolph could blossom into a fab contributor off the bench.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Brain Colangelo wrote: View Post
                      He has the quicks to play the 3. He has not had the chance.
                      Maybe we should ask the question of why has he not had the chance on two different clubs? Most coaches let players would work hard and who have talent play basketball.


                      Hollinger, 2008:
                      Between Me and the Scouts, One of Us Will Look Like an Idiot
                      Anthony Randolph, LSU, 9.85


                      Yes, this is true. Seen in many quarters as a high lottery pick, Randolph has virtually nothing in his statistical record to justify such a lofty selection.

                      In particular, his woeful ball-handling numbers are a major red flag. Randolph had more turnovers than any prospect except Beasley and Thompson, but those two players had every play run through them; I’m still waiting to find out Randolph’s excuse.

                      Additionally, his 49.9 true shooting percentage is alarmingly bad for a guy who is supposed to dominate athletically.

                      He can block shots, and the fact his team was such a mess probably didn’t help his numbers any, but gambling on Randolph with a high first-round pick looks like the basketball equivalent of hitting on 19 in blackjack. Hey, maybe the dealer throws out a 2 and everyone thinks you’re a genius, but chances are you’re going to bust.

                      It appears he’s going to be drafted in the middle of the first round at worst, but even that appears to be a terrible mistake — there is no track record whatsoever of a player rated this poorly achieving pro success.
                      Source: TheBigLead.com

                      So far Hollinger's claims hold up.
                      Last edited by Apollo; Sun Dec 12, 2010, 07:03 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Was never impressed with him. I don't know why. I mean, I can see what people might be excited about but the league and every draft is full of "potential". It's kinda like, if it was going to happen, it would've happened.

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                        • #42
                          Arsenalist wrote: View Post
                          I mean, I can see what people might be excited about but the league and every draft is full of "potential". It's kinda like, if it was going to happen, it would've happened.
                          The kid is 21. You telling me that by 21 that's it, he's not going to develop more? Pretty sure the NBA has a long list of players that took multiple years of learning what it it takes to be a pro before they 'got it'. Josh Smith is probably the best comparison I could make there, a guy who had terrible shot selection, no concept of team play on the offensive end and who loafed through most games until suddenly, for no apparent reason, someone or something got through to him last year and he stopped jacking up 3s and started concentrating. Only took him 6 years.

                          I can tell you right now why you're not impressed with Randolph: he plays like an ass. He looks for his own first, forces the issue, he shoots too many jumpers, he doesn't play within an offense, he gambles and he's hard-headed. Know why? He played for Don nelson for 2 years, and the only way he could earn any court time was when he played the helter-skelter non-system that is Nellie Ball, because Don Nelson is absolutely god awful at developing players. You need advanced offensive skills to play Nellie Ball, your defense is irrelevant since Nelson doesn't give two shits about it, and unless you can play like a one or a two, your ass will be nailed to the bench. Kinda tough for a raw 19-year old still growing into his body that only played one season of college ball.

                          Randolph played a total of 1878 minutes in his first two years as a pro. DeRozan played 1664 in his first season alone and look at where his skill level is right now. What Randolph needs is a defined role, stability and good patient coaching along with a couple more summers of working on his jumper, footwork and learning to use his athleticism.

                          I look at it this way: if you could put Randolph into this year's draft (a draft without a clear can't-miss prospect outside of possibly Irving), you'd have to think he'd go top-10 easily. Now consider the Raps' likely draft position, in the 8-13 range. Are you going to find someone better there? History says the odds are slim.

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                          • #43
                            Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                            The kid is 21. You telling me that by 21 that's it, he's not going to develop more? Pretty sure the NBA has a long list of players that took multiple years of learning what it it takes to be a pro before they 'got it'.
                            This is true but most of those guys probably didn't have multiple red flags from the get go. I can name you countless players who had potential and red flags and didn't amount to anything much at the NBA level.

                            Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                            Josh Smith is probably the best comparison I could make there, a guy who had terrible shot selection, no concept of team play on the offensive end and who loafed through most games until suddenly, for no apparent reason, someone or something got through to him last year and he stopped jacking up 3s and started concentrating. Only took him 6 years.
                            Josh Smith, age 21:

                            16.4 PPG, 2.9 BLK, 1.4 STL, 3.3 AST, 8.6 REB

                            Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                            I can tell you right now why you're not impressed with Randolph: he plays like an ass. He looks for his own first, forces the issue, he shoots too many jumpers, he doesn't play within an offense, he gambles and he's hard-headed. Know why? He played for Don nelson for 2 years, and the only way he could earn any court time was when he played the helter-skelter non-system that is Nellie Ball, because Don Nelson is absolutely god awful at developing players.
                            I'm not buying that. D'Antoni awards guys who show up and work hard. Are you using the fact that Randolph can't cope with change as a defense?

                            Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                            You need advanced offensive skills to play Nellie Ball, your defense is irrelevant since Nelson doesn't give two shits about it, and unless you can play like a one or a two, your ass will be nailed to the bench. Kinda tough for a raw 19-year old still growing into his body that only played one season of college ball.
                            Andris Biedrins seems counter to what you're explaining. So too does Ronny Turiaf, who had no trouble getting minutes with the Warriors and now is having no trouble getting minutes with the Knicks.

                            Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                            Randolph played a total of 1878 minutes in his first two years as a pro. DeRozan played 1664 in his first season alone and look at where his skill level is right now. What Randolph needs is a defined role, stability and good patient coaching along with a couple more summers of working on his jumper, footwork and learning to use his athleticism.
                            He's not going to get that in Toronto with $10M/yr locked up in Andrea Bargnani, $6M/yr locked up in Amir Johnson and a lotto pick spent on Ed Davis... A guy who I think happens to have more potential than Randolph and brings abilities to the table that are in need. In other words Davis doesn't have the Raptors' typical redundant skill set. Neither does DeRozan by the way seeing how we're talking about him here too.

                            Nine New Faces wrote: View Post
                            I look at it this way: if you could put Randolph into this year's draft (a draft without a clear can't-miss prospect outside of possibly Irving), you'd have to think he'd go top-10 easily. Now consider the Raps' likely draft position, in the 8-13 range. Are you going to find someone better there? History says the odds are slim.
                            They just drafted Ed Davis in the range and I'd take him over Randolph without blinking.
                            Last edited by Apollo; Mon Dec 13, 2010, 09:44 AM.

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                            • #44
                              Apollo wrote: View Post
                              This is true but most of those guys probably didn't have multiple red flags from the get go. I can name you countless players who had potential and red flags and didn't amount to anything much at the NBA level.
                              Come on, every player has 'red flags'. Every time I watch DeRozan play I see plenty of them, same with Sonny, Bargs, Amir, Ed Davis, etc etc. Every players has deficiencies, the mark of a good organization is bringing in players that will fit into their system and playing to their strengths (ie San Antonio) while minimizing their weaknesses. Randolph brings a ton of what the Raps need from the 3 spot, with the exception of a polished half court game.


                              Apollo wrote: View Post
                              Josh Smith, age 21:

                              16.4 PPG, 2.9 BLK, 1.4 STL, 3.3 AST, 8.6 REB
                              Go compare their Per36 numbers from their first 2 seasons, and keep in mind that Randolph only played in 33 games that second year. Smith got double the minutes Randolph did in his first NBA season, but Randolph beats him in a lot of categories including WS/48 and PER. My point about Smith was that it wasn't until he learned to use his game effectively and efficiently that he became a genuinely dominant force. His defensive numbers were always solid, but his offensive game didn't catch up until last season when he realized he was hurting the team by taking bad shots and made the adjustment.


                              Apollo wrote: View Post
                              I'm not buying that. D'Antoni awards guys who show up and work hard. Are you using the fact that Randolph can't cope with change as a defense?
                              You really can't see how Randolph doesn't fit into D'Antoni's system? The Knicks spread the floor around Stoudemire and Randolph doesn't have a reliable outside jumper. Thought that would be pretty obvious.


                              Apollo wrote: View Post
                              Andris Biedrins seems counter to what you're explaining. So too does Ronny Turiaf, who had no trouble getting minutes with the Warriors and now is having no trouble getting minutes with the Knicks.
                              Both of those guys play center, because Nelson and D'Antoni share the philosophy that you always need one big man out there for rebounding purposes (or in Stoudemire's case, for running the pick and roll against slower opponents). Randolph doesn't play center, so that comparison makes little sense. When Turiaf does play PF alongside Stoudemire it's for matchup reasons, and obviously putting Randolph on a guy that Turiaf is better suited to guarding would be a huge mistake.


                              Apollo wrote: View Post
                              He's not going to get that in Toronto with $10M/yr locked up in Andrea Bargnani, $6M/yr locked up in Amir Johnson and a lotto pick spent on Ed Davis... A guy who I think happens to have more potential than Randolph and brings abilities to the table that are in need. In other words Davis doesn't have the Raptors' typical redundant skill set. Neither does DeRozan by the way seeing how we're talking about him here too.
                              As I mentioned above, I see Randolph as a 3. If the raps wanted to play him exclusively as a 4 then I'd agree with you, it'd be pointless. But the Raps have a hole at the 3, an unconventional center that plays outside and lacks defensive and rebounding skills while leaving open space inside on offense, and a mandate to run, all of which make Randolph a good fit on the team in my opinion.


                              Apollo wrote: View Post
                              They just drafted Ed Davis in the range and I'd take him over Randolph without blinking.
                              Let's be honest here; the Raps got very, very lucky with that pick. The thing about picking late in the lottery range is that you don't control who drops to you. The Pistons could just as easily have drafted Davis and Greg Munroe could have fallen to the Raps. Given that the Raps could easily leverage some of their assets into a mid-to-late first rounder should they make the trade, and that someone in the NBA will always be interested in Randolph if he doesn't pan out in Toronto, it just seems like too good an opportunity to pass up.

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                              • #45
                                To be clear - I support trading the Heat pick for Randolph. I would not deal the Raps pick for Randolph before the lotto balls have finished falling. There's ZERO upside in doing that now because noone would trade a top pick for Randolph. A pick in the 25-30 range, why not?

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