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Blow it up..... seriously

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  • Brandon wrote:
    OK, well I maybe misunderstood what you were saying, because there are some people around here who say "American ball players don't want to play in Toronto because they can't even find it on a map" etc. as if the city or country is the issue. Beyond it being thinly-veiled racism, it's not true. The Jays have attracted lots of great players for decades. The problem is the disastrous management team has signed so many awful players to big contracts, there isn't enough cap space at the moment. And whoever finally replaces Colangelo is going to have to dump those bad contracts on the first team stupid enough to take them.
    it's actually more likely xenophobia than racism, but w/e.

    as to the point, i totally agree with your premise (and matt's rebutal) that players will sign anywhere as long as there is a legit chance to win there. but then we're looking at a chicken-egg situation...how do you create that 'winning environment?' by having 'winning' players that contribute to a 'winning' team. where do those 'winning' players come from? the air? no, they come from the same 3 places that are available to every team (draft, trade, FA); if the team doesn't have 'winning' players &/or a 'winning culture,' then it's pretty hard to sway FAs to sign here based on the premise of 'winning,' isn't it?
    TRUE LOVE - Sometimes you know it the instant you see it across the bar.

    Comment


    • yertu damkule wrote: View Post
      it's actually more likely xenophobia than racism, but w/e.

      as to the point, i totally agree with your premise (and matt's rebutal) that players will sign anywhere as long as there is a legit chance to win there. but then we're looking at a chicken-egg situation...how do you create that 'winning environment?' by having 'winning' players that contribute to a 'winning' team. where do those 'winning' players come from? the air? no, they come from the same 3 places that are available to every team (draft, trade, FA); if the team doesn't have 'winning' players &/or a 'winning culture,' then it's pretty hard to sway FAs to sign here based on the premise of 'winning,' isn't it?
      While I totally agree that players will almost unconditionally sign with winning teams, I disagree that it's a 'chicken and egg situation'. A 'winning environment' can be created by an EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD GM and he can do it without elite free agents. Draft, Trade and Free Agency as mentioned are the 3 available options to all GM's. Yes a team is limited as far as the Draft is concerned but I believe that Trade and Free Agency are underestimated options. To some extent, even the Draft is.

      Colangelo is a capable GM and did prove it when he started here. Among other things, one of the main reasons for his failure is his over-reliance on input from his support staff. Stephanski, Embry, Casey etc.
      Attitude Is A Choice.

      Comment


      • Trade to shake things up

        http://basketball.realgm.com/tradech..._trade/6177866

        Calderon, Bargnani, Ed Davis for Kevin Love, JJ Barea

        Kevin Love's been upseting people in that organization. A good shake up would help both teams.

        Minny can save money, get a younger prospect in Davis a long range shooting big man, and a better backup PG Spanish to help Ricky Rubio for the remaining of the season.

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        • changv10 wrote: View Post
          http://basketball.realgm.com/tradech..._trade/6177866

          calderon, bargnani, ed davis for kevin love, jj barea

          kevin love's been upseting people in that organization. A good shake up would help both teams.

          Minny can save money, get a younger prospect in davis a long range shooting big man, and a better backup pg spanish to help ricky rubio for the remaining of the season.
          lol

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          • changv10 wrote: View Post
            http://basketball.realgm.com/tradech..._trade/6177866

            Calderon, Bargnani, Ed Davis for Kevin Love, JJ Barea

            Kevin Love's been upseting people in that organization. A good shake up would help both teams.

            Minny can save money, get a younger prospect in Davis a long range shooting big man, and a better backup PG Spanish to help Ricky Rubio for the remaining of the season.
            Sure sign me up.

            No way in heaven does Minnesota do that.

            The type of value Love would return is equal to or better than what OKC got for Harden.

            Love put up 26 points and 13 rebs last year and is doing 20 and 15 this year.

            All this Love talk is very premature regardless. He is under contract for at least another 2 seasons after this year. Furthermore, Taylor is talking about selling the Wolves. Trading Love for that package is a great way to knock off $100M off his asking price.

            I think it is fair to say forget Love coming to Toronto.

            Comment


            • Is there any site to check all of the existing NBA players contracts?

              Comment


              • omgsomuchpotential wrote: View Post
                Is there any site to check all of the existing NBA players contracts?

                www.hoopsworld.com click on team, players and contracts

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                • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                  Sure sign me up.

                  No way in heaven does Minnesota do that.

                  The type of value Love would return is equal to or better than what OKC got for Harden.

                  Love put up 26 points and 13 rebs last year and is doing 20 and 15 this year.

                  All this Love talk is very premature regardless. He is under contract for at least another 2 seasons after this year. Furthermore, Taylor is talking about selling the Wolves. Trading Love for that package is a great way to knock off $100M off his asking price.

                  I think it is fair to say forget Love coming to Toronto.
                  Even if we got him via trade he would bolt in free agency.

                  Comment


                  • Crazy thought after last 2 games.

                    The idea of blowing it up might not result in the desired outcome. Raps might actually start winning more.

                    Ugh. I hope this is not another typical Raptor year with the season by the new year and the lottery lost in March and April by winning meaningless games. The pain of it all.

                    Comment


                    • Kevin (Toronto)


                      Can the raptors make a push and get back into the playoff picture(8th seed) or are they in too much of a hole ?
                      Chad Ford
                      (1:12 PM)


                      I don't see it without a trade for a veteran big man to protect the rim. They are in an interesting place. They have enough pieces they could go in either direction. They could move a few younger players for a player like Varejao and probably be pretty good or they can try to move Bargnani and Calderon and double-down on the rebuilding process. If Bryan Colangelo has watched the Wizards ... he knows which direction NOT to go.

                      http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/46492
                      Ford raised the idea in another ESPN article about trading JV and Ross for Varejao. Then he floats the above. I think he is nuts. And comparing the Raps to the Wizards is ridiculous. The Raps young players consist of talented, quality, teachable young men in TR, DD, ED, JV. The Wiz young nucleus until recently had McGee, Blatche, and Young and current bust Vesely.

                      Doubling-down on the youth movement would be a good thing because the Raptors are showing the current youth are without a doubt heading in the right direction unlike the youth of Washington's recent past.

                      Comment


                      • Still hoping Toronto takes on some horrible contracts for picks or the right to swap picks.

                        If you look at who is playing, nearly all of them on are under contract moving forward - only Anderson, Calderon, Pietrus are not.

                        Just because Toronto takes on a horrible contract doesn't mean that 'contract' has to play.

                        Comment


                        • Anyone heard of Trey Burke at Michigan? I had heard the name but did not realize his season until today. If he keeps going, he won't be #21 as DraftExpress.com/NBADraft.net has him or #13 as SI.com has him.

                          He is short (6'0") but so is Chris Paul and like Paul again, Burke has a 6'5" wingspan.

                          http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Trey-Burke-36200/

                          http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...670/trey-burke
                          Last edited by mcHAPPY; Sat Jan 5, 2013, 11:02 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            Ford raised the idea in another ESPN article about trading JV and Ross for Varejao. Then he floats the above. I think he is nuts. And comparing the Raps to the Wizards is ridiculous. The Raps young players consist of talented, quality, teachable young men in TR, DD, ED, JV. The Wiz young nucleus until recently had McGee, Blatche, and Young and current bust Vesely.

                            Doubling-down on the youth movement would be a good thing because the Raptors are showing the current youth are without a doubt heading in the right direction unlike the youth of Washington's recent past.
                            The problem with Washington, was there lack of veteran presence on the court, and in the locker room. The entire team was young, and there weren't any surrounding players to mentor them in the right direction. When you have immature, young, inexperienced players, surrounded by more immature, young, inexperienced players, you get bad results. They didn't have guys on the team to show them the way of the NBA in terms of handling yourself professionally, and playing as a team. Blatche, Mcgee, and Young are 3 very, very talented players. IF they had the veteran presence around, who knows how talented this core would've been.

                            Derozan, and Ed (now as of late, Ross, JV, Acy) have been surrounded by veterans ever since entering the league. Derozan came in with CB in town, Reggie Evans, Antoine Wright, Jarrett Jack, Rasho. Ed was around Leandro, Peja was in for that short time, Evans still around. Last year, you could really notice the veteran presence up to the current time, with guys like Magloire, Gray, Carter, Pietrus.

                            How could you learn something, when you're being taught by basically the same person?
                            Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

                            Comment


                            • RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
                              The problem with Washington, was there lack of veteran presence on the court, and in the locker room. The entire team was young, and there weren't any surrounding players to mentor them in the right direction. When you have immature, young, inexperienced players, surrounded by more immature, young, inexperienced players, you get bad results. They didn't have guys on the team to show them the way of the NBA in terms of handling yourself professionally, and playing as a team. Blatche, Mcgee, and Young are 3 very, very talented players. IF they had the veteran presence around, who knows how talented this core would've been.

                              Derozan, and Ed (now as of late, Ross, JV, Acy) have been surrounded by veterans ever since entering the league. Derozan came in with CB in town, Reggie Evans, Antoine Wright, Jarrett Jack, Rasho. Ed was around Leandro, Peja was in for that short time, Evans still around. Last year, you could really notice the veteran presence up to the current time, with guys like Magloire, Gray, Carter, Pietrus.

                              How could you learn something, when you're being taught by basically the same person?
                              I am not buying that. Wiz had players like Mo Evans, Roger Mason, Richard Lewis, Brian Cook, Ronny Turiaf, Mike Bibby, Kirk Hinrich, Antawn Jamison, Mike Miller over the last few seasons.

                              Veteran presence will never make up for a lack of character, work ethic, and/or desire.

                              Comment


                              • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                                I am not buying that. Wiz had players like Mo Evans, Roger Mason, Richard Lewis, Brian Cook, Ronny Turiaf, Mike Bibby, Kirk Hinrich, Antawn Jamison, Mike Miller over the last few seasons.

                                Veteran presence will never make up for a lack of character, work ethic, and/or desire.
                                I'd say that's mostly correct, but that list doesn't include anyone along the lines of a Tim Duncan, KG, J-Kidd. I think some vets can mold young players, but not many.

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