Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Everything Derozan

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • I understand the comparison.. Melo even at his worst was slightly better than DD at his best but the reason for the comparison was to show that a player like DD could take a team to the WCF. DD may not be as clutch but if you surround a player like him with adequate pieces then who's says that Toronto couldn't also succeed like Denver did that year?

    That team also consisted of Billups, Nene, Martin, Smith and a bench of Kleiza, Birdman, Jones, Carter and Balkman.

    That team was 7th in offense and 8th in defense.

    Billups/Nene/Martin/Smith or Lowry/JV/Amir/Ross?
    Kleiza/Birdman/Jones/Balkman or Johnson/Patterson/Williams/Vasquez?

    If JV and Ross grow like we all expect them too, and the team takes a step forward in both offense and defense, I don't think the comparison is that much of a reach.

    I will say though that Denver has an advantage that not many other teams do.. and that is their huge home court advantage. Playing in Denver is tough with their thin air. Raptors need some kind of a system where if you are an opponent you get punched in the balls as you leave the visiting locker room or something.. but outside of that advantage looking at just the rosters I don't think it's far fetched to say that we could become a contender with the same team that we had last year especially since they play in the East and in the Atlantic division which is advantageous enough.

    Comment


    • planetmars wrote: View Post
      I understand the comparison.. Melo even at his worst was slightly better than DD at his best but the reason for the comparison was to show that a player like DD could take a team to the WCF. DD may not be as clutch but if you surround a player like him with adequate pieces then who's says that Toronto couldn't also succeed like Denver did that year?

      That team also consisted of Billups, Nene, Martin, Smith and a bench of Kleiza, Birdman, Jones, Carter and Balkman.

      That team was 7th in offense and 8th in defense.

      Billups/Nene/Martin/Smith or Lowry/JV/Amir/Ross?
      Kleiza/Birdman/Jones/Balkman or Johnson/Patterson/Williams/Vasquez?

      If JV and Ross grow like we all expect them too, and the team takes a step forward in both offense and defense, I don't think the comparison is that much of a reach.

      I will say though that Denver has an advantage that not many other teams do.. and that is their huge home court advantage. Playing in Denver is tough with their thin air. Raptors need some kind of a system where if you are an opponent you get punched in the balls as you leave the visiting locker room or something.. but outside of that advantage looking at just the rosters I don't think it's far fetched to say that we could become a contender with the same team that we had last year especially since they play in the East and in the Atlantic division which is advantageous enough.
      Thanks for being able to use logic and reason to understand the point of the post.

      Comment


      • imanshumpert wrote: View Post
        OldSkoolCool, McHAPPY and Fully there's no need to get upset lol.

        The point of comparing the numbers was that, during that season Melo was the main scorer on a team that went to the WCF (and if not for some major stupidity on late game inbounding, might've actually beaten the Lakers --- the eventual champs). It's trying to determine whether you can have a title contender with DD as your main scorer if your supporting cast is strong enough.

        No need for anybody to start getting angry because DeRozan is being looked at in a positive light.

        Now I don't think DeRozan actually can because there are few factors that aren't being looked at here. First of all, Melo played much better in the playoffs that year than in the regular season (in fact statistically that was probably his best playoff performance). Secondly, Melo is statistically probably the best ACTIVE clutch performer in the league. I remember reading an article about this a while ago.

        Just fun to look at the numbers, stop getting annoyed.
        Once again, who is upset? Who is getting annoyed?

        Some people, myself included, think your observations are into overkill zone and borderline silly. The constant attempts to put DeRozan in the same company as the elite in the game is ridiculous and you always present your thoughts with the out: "but he is not a franchise player and he is not paid like one."

        I mean in this example you're taking an elite scorer's worst season and comparing him derozans best based on team results. C'mon.

        I acknowledge I've gone overboard in the past with derozan posts. I personally think you're doing the same to the other extreme.

        It really is time to see what comes next. As you know raps are a 48 win team with DeRozan. I'm not seeing too many people looking to ship him out in last few months. I know I'm not.

        Comment


        • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
          Once again, who is upset? Who is getting annoyed?

          Some people, myself included, think your observations are into overkill zone and borderline silly. The constant attempts to put DeRozan in the same company as the elite in the game is ridiculous and you always present your thoughts with the out: "but he is not a franchise player and he is not paid like one."

          I mean in this example you're taking an elite scorer's worst season and comparing him derozans best based on team results. C'mon.

          I acknowledge I've gone overboard in the past with derozan posts. I personally think you're doing the same to the other extreme.
          Actually, I think his analysis is useful. He didn't have to take those jabs, but he did explain his reasoning well.

          Fact is, taking that year in isolation, DD's 2013-2014 stat line as a best player took a team to the WCF.

          He's acknowledged that he's not trying to say that Demar is just as good as Carmelo. He's trying to say that that stat line can get a team to the conference finals IF the rest of the team is very good.
          "Bruno?
          Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
          He's terrible."

          -Superjudge, 7/23

          Hope you're wrong.

          Comment


          • What's the point in even comparing Melo and DeRozan?

            It's not fair to DeRozan to be compared to a vastly superior player and Melo to be compared to a inferior player

            Let DeRozan be DeRozan!
            "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

            Comment


            • MACK11 wrote: View Post
              What's the point in even comparing Melo and DeRozan?

              It's not fair to DeRozan to be compared to a vastly superior player and Melo to be compared to a inferior player

              Let DeRozan be DeRozan!
              I think you're also missing the point. imanshumpert wasn't trying to say DD is just as good as Carmelo.

              He's saying one year in the past, the Denver Nuggets went to the WCF and their best player put up a stat line almost identical to the one DD put up in 2013-2014
              "Bruno?
              Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
              He's terrible."

              -Superjudge, 7/23

              Hope you're wrong.

              Comment


              • stooley wrote: View Post
                I think you're also missing the point. imanshumpert wasn't trying to say DD is just as good as Carmelo.

                He's saying one year in the past, the Denver Nuggets went to the WCF and their best player put up a stat line almost identical to the one DD put up in 2013-2014
                Also that Demar is still developing. His ceiling offensively isn't Melo but he has room to grow. By the time DD reaches UFA he could be top 5 in scoring. He was tied for 9th last season.

                Comment


                • Well the more important stats from that playoff run for Melo and the Nuggets would be his postseason numbers, not his regular season ones, and those (unfortunately for us) blow away anything DD has been able to accomplish so far.

                  But overall I just don't get the need to circumstantially connect all these dots. The best "proof" (and the only one that ultimately matters) that a team featuring DD as it's centrepiece can make the Conference Finals will be when the team that features DD as it's centrepiece (that would be the Raptors by the way) makes the Conference Finals. We don't need to come up with a different way to measure these things, the real life actual results happening right in front of our eyes work just fine. So far, a team led by DD offensively is a non-playoff or first round exit team. As DeRozan improves, and the supporting pieces around him improve, maybe that ceiling rises with it. We'll have to wait and see.

                  I just find it silly that we've gone from being the new Pacers, to the new Pistons, to the new Nuggets now, to the new _______ in a couple weeks when imanshumpert digs up that Bruno Caboclo and player X had the same shooting splits during their third career summer league game when it falls on a Tuesday.
                  Last edited by Fully; Thu Jul 24, 2014, 03:51 PM.

                  Comment


                  • And I like DD! And I like this current Raptors team! I think we'll win 50 games next season. I can just kind of see why the other side of the argument lobs the homer accusations around when I read stuff like the Melo/DD comparisons, and it's nice to have real conversation/debate about the upcoming season on here without it being soaked in Raptors fandom.
                    Last edited by Fully; Thu Jul 24, 2014, 03:48 PM.

                    Comment


                    • stooley wrote: View Post
                      I think you're also missing the point. imanshumpert wasn't trying to say DD is just as good as Carmelo.

                      He's saying one year in the past, the Denver Nuggets went to the WCF and their best player put up a stat line almost identical to the one DD put up in 2013-2014
                      Yes but it was one of Melo's worst statistical seasons, also during that playoff run in which Melo advanced to the WCF he averaged 27.5PPG 4.8REB 3.7AST 1.3STL which is better then his regaular season stats
                      "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

                      Comment


                      • MACK11 wrote: View Post
                        Yes but it was one of Melo's worst statistical seasons, also during that playoff run in which Melo advanced to the WCF he averaged 27.5PPG 4.8REB 3.7AST 1.3STL which is better then his regaular season stats
                        They were actually even better than that.
                        27 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists and just under 2 steals a game on 56% TS and a 24.3 PER during that run to the WCF.

                        Comment


                        • The point was not so much to compare Melo to DeRozan (this should be obvious because everyone and their grandma knows that Melo is a superior player). The point was to compare DeRozan's production to the primary scorer's production on A (not all, just one example) championship contending team.

                          From what I've seen, there are a few legit title contenders in the modern era that had guys with DeRozan like production as the top scorers: Denver 08-09, the Pistons (Rip) among others. The trend seems to be that in order to "get away with this" you need every starter to be at or near all-star level and you need strong depth.

                          Comment


                          • Fully wrote: View Post
                            They were actually even better than that.
                            27 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists and just under 2 steals a game on 56% TS and a 24.3 PER during that run to the WCF.
                            Well I stand corrected but that's what im trying to say for us to be led by DeRozan he needs to reach another level like Melo did during the playoffs when he went to the WCF
                            "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

                            Comment


                            • Fully wrote: View Post
                              Well the more important stats from that playoff run for Melo and the Nuggets would be his postseason numbers, not his regular season ones, and those (unfortunately for us) blow away anything DD has been able to accomplish so far.

                              But overall I just don't get the need to circumstantially connect all these dots. The best "proof" (and the only one that ultimately matters) that a team featuring DD as it's centrepiece can make the Conference Finals will be when the team that features DD as it's centrepiece (that would be the Raptors by the way) makes the Conference Finals. We don't need to come up with a different way to measure these things, the real life actual results happening right in front of our eyes work just fine. So far, a team led by DD offensively is a non-playoff or first round exit team. As DeRozan improves, and the supporting pieces around him improve, maybe that ceiling rises with it. We'll have to wait and see.

                              I just find it silly that we've gone from being the new Pacers, to the new Pistons, to the new Nuggets now, to the new _______ in a couple weeks when imanshumpert digs up that Bruno Caboclo and player X had the same shooting splits during their third career summer league game when it falls on a Tuesday.
                              Well actually even those were similar in some ways. Both of them upped their efficiency in the playoffs by getting to the FT Line more. Scoring and assists about the same, Melo rebounded better but he's also 6'8 240+, etc. WS/NetRTG better for Melo but likely because his team as a whole performed better in the playoffs.

                              Melo:
                              27-6-4
                              56.4 TS%
                              1.35 PPS

                              DeRozan:
                              24-4-4
                              55 TS%
                              1.43 PPS

                              Comment


                              • Fully wrote: View Post
                                Well the more important stats from that playoff run for Melo and the Nuggets would be his postseason numbers, not his regular season ones, and those (unfortunately for us) blow away anything DD has been able to accomplish so far.

                                But overall I just don't get the need to circumstantially connect all these dots. The best "proof" (and the only one that ultimately matters) that a team featuring DD as it's centrepiece can make the Conference Finals will be when the team that features DD as it's centrepiece (that would be the Raptors by the way) makes the Conference Finals. We don't need to come up with a different way to measure these things, the real life actual results happening right in front of our eyes work just fine. So far, a team led by DD offensively is a non-playoff or first round exit team. As DeRozan improves, and the supporting pieces around him improve, maybe that ceiling rises with it. We'll have to wait and see.

                                I just find it silly that we've gone from being the new Pacers, to the new Pistons, to the new Nuggets now, to the new _______ in a couple weeks when imanshumpert digs up that Bruno Caboclo and player X had the same shooting splits during their third career summer league game when it falls on a Tuesday.
                                Lol

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X