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  • imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    Well actually even those were similar in some ways. Both of them upped their efficiency in the playoffs by getting to the FT Line more. Scoring and assists about the same, Melo rebounded better but he's also 6'8 240+, etc. WS/NetRTG better for Melo but likely because his team as a whole performed better in the playoffs.

    Melo:
    27-6-4
    56.4 TS%
    1.35 PPS

    DeRozan:
    24-4-4
    55 TS%
    1.43 PPS
    well would you look at that
    "Bruno?
    Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
    He's terrible."

    -Superjudge, 7/23

    Hope you're wrong.

    Comment


    • stooley wrote: View Post
      well would you look at that
      I did.

      It's pretty awesome.

      Comment


      • I've reiterated that DeRozan is not an ideal #1 option (an ideal #1 option wing can drop 25+ppg on mid-high 50s TS%, guys like Kobe, prime Wade, Melo, even Harden). But I think it's actually possible to win with him as the leading scorer (and highest paid player, which he likely will be in 2016).

        Generally the difference with a guy like DeRozan is that the rest of the team needs to be stacked. Near all-stars or extremely high level role players in the starting 5, and an elite bench. When you have a guy like Kobe you can get away with having a weaker supporting cast.

        EDIT: Tbh, even last year's Spurs were an example of this. Tony Parker, their leading scorer was statistically very similar to DeMar.

        Almost the same points per 36, identical oRTG, dRTG and WS/48. Parker was more efficient by TS% and a better passer but he's also a point guard. Points per shot almost exactly the same.
        Last edited by imanshumpert; Thu Jul 24, 2014, 04:40 PM.

        Comment


        • imanshumpert wrote: View Post
          Well actually even those were similar in some ways. Both of them upped their efficiency in the playoffs by getting to the FT Line more. Scoring and assists about the same, Melo rebounded better but he's also 6'8 240+, etc. WS/NetRTG better for Melo but likely because his team as a whole performed better in the playoffs.

          Melo:
          27-6-4
          56.4 TS%
          1.35 PPS

          DeRozan:
          24-4-4
          55 TS%
          1.43 PPS
          I like the bit where you emphasize the stats that make them most similar, and put in a one liner writing off the differences in the more important and impactful stats like overall performance (WS) and impact on the team (net rating). And that you didn't show how different - just noted that they were "better." Melo had a .201 WS/48 and a +8 net rating - that's elite. DD had a .136 WS/48 and a +2 rating. That's above average. Worlds apart. And I really like that you assume Melo's better overall stats were a result of his team's better play, rather than a cause of said better play.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

          Comment


          • DanH wrote: View Post
            I like the bit where you emphasize the stats that make them most similar, and put in a one liner writing off the differences in the more important and impactful stats like overall performance (WS) and impact on the team (net rating). And that you didn't show how different - just noted that they were "better." Melo had a .201 WS/48 and a +8 net rating - that's elite. DD had a .136 WS/48 and a +2 rating. That's above average. Worlds apart. And I really like that you assume Melo's better overall stats were a result of his team's better play, rather than a cause of said better play.
            I like your sarcastic tone.

            oRTG and dRTG (which are also related with win shares) ARE affected significantly by your team's performance.

            Yeah DeRozan's net RTG in the playoffs last year was +2, the Raptors was only +3.8
            Yeah Melo had a +8 net RTG in the playoffs in 2008-09, but the Nuggets net rating was +9.6

            I didn't just conveniently leave it out, team performance absolutely, MUST be considered here. Thinking otherwise is foolish and stupid to say the least.

            Comment


            • *repetitive headshakes*

              Is this really happening?

              Comment


              • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                *repetitive headshakes*

                Is this really happening?
                Yeah that's what I'm thinking as well hahaha
                "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

                Comment


                • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                  *repetitive headshakes*

                  Is this really happening?
                  I don't really understand where you guys are coming from to be honest.

                  It seems like if you have a really, really good team around DD, but who is still your best player, you can be successful.

                  That's literally the only point that was made, and it's really not that far fetched.
                  "Bruno?
                  Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                  He's terrible."

                  -Superjudge, 7/23

                  Hope you're wrong.

                  Comment


                  • stooley wrote: View Post
                    I don't really understand where you guys are coming from to be honest.

                    It seems like if you have a really, really good team around DD, but who is still your best player, you can be successful.

                    That's literally the only point that was made, and it's really not that far fetched.
                    mcHAPPY likes criticizing other people's opinions, but if you do a quick forum search on his past posts you can see that his opinions/predictions are almost always wrong.

                    Comment


                    • stooley wrote: View Post
                      I don't really understand where you guys are coming from to be honest.

                      It seems like if you have a really, really good team around DD, but who is still your best player, you can be successful.

                      That's literally the only point that was made, and it's really not that far fetched.
                      I don't know what McHappy's opinion on this is but I for one cannot see us being a contender ala OKC, SAS, MIA(with LBJ) with DeRozan being our best player, DD's ideal role is 2nd option. If we had someone like KD or another superstar player on his team DD's shooting % and his overall game would flourish because he is not the top gun.
                      "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

                      Comment


                      • Did I just see a statistical comparison of Derozan to Tony Parker used as an argument point? God I hate the offseason.

                        Comment


                        • MACK11 wrote: View Post
                          I don't know what McHappy's opinion on this is but I for one cannot see us being a contender ala OKC, SAS, MIA(with LBJ) with DeRozan being our best player, DD's ideal role is 2nd option. If we had someone like KD or another superstar player on his team DD's shooting % and his overall game would flourish because he is not the top gun.
                          See, that's what I though, but in looking at Melo's performance that season, when the Nuggets made the WCF, and apparently including the playoffs to a certain extent, it is VERY similar to DD's.

                          KHD wrote: View Post
                          Did I just see a statistical comparison of Derozan to Tony Parker used as an argument point? God I hate the offseason.
                          I think it was Melo?

                          Which is actually a pretty good comp (as far as much better players go), since if you paint their games in broad strokes, they look very similar.

                          Volume scorers who play subpar defense.
                          "Bruno?
                          Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                          He's terrible."

                          -Superjudge, 7/23

                          Hope you're wrong.

                          Comment


                          • DanH wrote: View Post
                            I like the bit where you emphasize the stats that make them most similar, and put in a one liner writing off the differences in the more important and impactful stats like overall performance (WS) and impact on the team (net rating). And that you didn't show how different - just noted that they were "better." Melo had a .201 WS/48 and a +8 net rating - that's elite. DD had a .136 WS/48 and a +2 rating. That's above average. Worlds apart. And I really like that you assume Melo's better overall stats were a result of his team's better play, rather than a cause of said better play.
                            His forte is cherry picking stats to suit whatever point he is trying to make. I thought everyone knew that by now.

                            Comment


                            • FoxMachine wrote: View Post
                              His forte is cherry picking stats to suit whatever point he is trying to make. I thought everyone knew that by now.
                              I really think all of this criticism is based more on history than on what was actually presented here. He addressed both of those stats in his post, although he glossed over them slightly (but come on...)

                              The net rating does seem very easy to explain away, since Melo was under his team's overall performance by almost the exact same amount as DD.

                              I'll look into WS, to try and figure out what's going on there, because the stat is based on boxscores, so it should be fairly easily explainable and it may be that in this specific circumstance, it is highlighting something critical or misrepresenting worth.

                              edit:

                              So for Anthony, in the playoffs, at the age of 24, I see:

                              a greater usg% by about 3%
                              about double the steals per 100 possessions
                              3.1 vs. 3.4 turnovers per 100 possessions (so again, slightly in Anthony's favour)
                              a marginally better assist rate and a marginally better rebound rate
                              a TS% of .564 which is slightly higher than DD's at .550, and this stat sums up Anthony's better 3p%, although that may have an effect of his teammates as well (being able to better stretch the floor)

                              edit again:

                              So I'm thinking that WS adjusts for league average, as well. So I'm thinking that the Nuggets performance while Anthony was on the court may have been further above league average than the Raptors' performance with DD on the court.

                              So again, this may raise other questions, like, obviously the league has changed a lot since then, is an mid range player like DD still effective, but the box scores are nearly identical.
                              Last edited by stooley; Thu Jul 24, 2014, 08:58 PM.
                              "Bruno?
                              Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                              He's terrible."

                              -Superjudge, 7/23

                              Hope you're wrong.

                              Comment


                              • imanshumpert wrote: View Post
                                mcHAPPY likes criticizing other people's opinions, but if you do a quick forum search on his past posts you can see that his opinions/predictions are almost always wrong.
                                Almost is the key word.

                                Like a broken clock I'm right twice a day.

                                Don't toss dirt now, friend. Remember I'm smrt.

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