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  • You know what big overhauls every year do to a team? You end up with 5 years outside the playoffs. 3 different head Coaches, a new starting lineup every year, a different bench every year and no direction. It all leads to the same place. Unless you have a team like the Heat, or the Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc Bulls you rarely see teams make major overhauls and succeed immediately.

    At worst if next year it fails, the deepest draft in a number of years breaks the fall. But first they should see who is worth keeping, and who to move by giving them an off-season, etc., to become an actual team. What changes made should come from trading Bargs for small pieces and financial flexibility, and amnestying Kleiza. What should they bring in? A bench big who can play some post, and a guard who can defend both the 1 and 2 as well as stabilize the second unit.

    What's with this obsession with needing shooters? The biggest issue the Raptors had is the massive defensive gap between the current starting lineup and the bench. Not offense. Turnovers and bad defense are bigger issues. I don't remember a game where they lost because they lacked a 3 point shooter. I remember poor substitutions, poor time management, poor calls after timeouts, bad decision making by players, but no game I watched was lost because the Raptors couldn't score a 3.

    Getting Boozer doesn't make the Raptors a champion contender. It makes the budget ridiculous, but it's adding a defensive liability to a team with a bench full of defensive liabilities. Do I think he is better than Bargnani -- by miles. But what does bringing in Boozer to this team do for the future of the franchise?

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    • I'm kind of on board with Jimmie and Letter N, as much as this team needs some pieces, I don't think those pieces SHOULD be guys that actually significantly change the outlook of this team, unless it is for a Chris Paul, LeBron James franchise changing player, who's positives being brought are guaranteed to show.

      I for one, am damn tired of seeing 9 new faces on this roster every season, and using it as an excuse for a failed season. Keep the core, add some key pieces such as a shooter, wing defender, big man who can score/defend inside, veterans, etc, and allow them to work with the core group. Building continuity rather than giving into short term success is a far more feasible and successful plan in my opinion. IF the plan doesn't work towards the goal (playoffs, playoffs, playoffs), than what does Casey have to say? Who does BC have to put the blame on? Fire those two, 2014-2015 season arrive, one, some contracts are shed, in you go into the next off-season with significant cap space, draft picks, and young players under contract - Derozan, Ross, Valanciunas.

      Trade Bargnani for a young piece like a Derrick Williams (potential, low risk due to contract, versatile - play 3 and 4) , and a point guard who addresses the needs for a shooter, guard issues , and veteran leadership in a guy like Ridnour.

      Whilst I would agree Boozer is a good fit here with veteran leadership, inside scoring, and definitely useful unlike Bargnani, it's short sighted, and only positive that comes overall out is a possible playoff win or two, and a huge expiring contract down the road. I personally think our current core with a number of small pieces rather than one significant piece is/would be just as successful.
      Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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      • RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
        Trade Bargnani for a young piece like a Derrick Williams (potential, low risk due to contract, versatile - play 3 and 4) , and a point guard who addresses the needs for a shooter, guard issues , and veteran leadership in a guy like Ridnour.
        This is exactly the kind of deal I would look at. Either/or + filler is even fine, if Bargnani's value really is that low.

        Trading Bargnani for young pieces or other cheap assets that won't impact "the core" is the right move for a forget-the-hype-we're-actually-still-rebuilding team. I hate the term "rebuilding", but it's as accurate as anything for where this team currently sits, roster-wise. Let some team with deep pocketbooks and their eyes on the championship spring for Boozer's last 2 years.
        Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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        • jimmie wrote: View Post
          This is exactly the kind of deal I would look at. Either/or + filler is even fine, if Bargnani's value really is that low.

          Trading Bargnani for young pieces or other cheap assets that won't impact "the core" is the right move for a forget-the-hype-we're-actually-still-rebuilding team. I hate the term "rebuilding", but it's as accurate as anything for where this team currently sits, roster-wise. Let some team with deep pocketbooks and their eyes on the championship spring for Boozer's last 2 years.
          That way, thinking about, a young piece can come in, show terrific potential, contribute, meaning another player being integrated into that current core, which could be a steal.
          Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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          • RaptorReuben wrote: View Post
            That way, thinking about, a young piece can come in, show terrific potential, contribute, meaning another player being integrated into that current core, which could be a steal.
            Casey does not want young guys though.

            He has shown that if the Raptors are playing meaningful games, he will not play them - even JV.

            Getting more prospects is not on Casey's wish list and it doesn't appear to be on Colangelo's agenda.

            The other issue is Bargnani's value. I'm not seeing a team taking on $23.3M over the next two years for him. I would put Bargnani in the category of CV or Ben Gordon right now. The only thing you are getting back with Bargnani is another tarnished or overvalued asset.

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            • Matt52 wrote: View Post
              Casey does not want young guys though.

              He has shown that if the Raptors are playing meaningful games, he will not play them - even JV.

              Getting more prospects is not on Casey's wish list and it doesn't appear to be on Colangelo's agenda.

              The other issue is Bargnani's value. I'm not seeing a team taking on $23.3M over the next two years for him. I would put Bargnani in the category of CV or Ben Gordon right now. The only thing you are getting back with Bargnani is another tarnished or overvalued asset.
              That's true, but if we were able to trade Bargnani for a small number of pieces, it would better address some of our current issues. Bargnani for Boozer I wouldn't get upset about, heck, quite frankly I'd be happy, but I'm not sure this is the better road to go.

              It's a tough situation to evaluate on behalf of Bargnani and his contract, but getting anything useful like Ben Gordon is a positive really in my opinion.

              I still think trying to bring in young players is extremely important, it might not be a rookie, it might be a player going into their 3rd year i.e Derrick Williams, a year where Demar got unlimited playing time. So where will Casey's excuse go? Bringing in prospects and picks should be a small part of the agenda, because this team is obviously far too reliant on the internal improvement. JV, Ross, Derozan will only improve so much (Derozan and JV more in my opinion), Gay, Lowry, Amir only have so much room left to grow, etc. Bringing in Boozer doesn't add to any of that improvement, he is what he is.
              Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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              • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                The other issue is Bargnani's value. I'm not seeing a team taking on $23.3M over the next two years for him. I would put Bargnani in the category of CV or Ben Gordon right now. The only thing you are getting back with Bargnani is another tarnished or overvalued asset.

                Not for a great return but I think Bargnani can be traded. So can Gordon. In fact he was traded last year for Maggette. Charlie V I agree is difficult to trade but considering it's his final year it may be possible to trade him too.

                Funny you mentioned it 'cause I was thinking about Bargnani for Gordon plus ..... or Bargnani for Charlie V plus .... trades.
                Attitude Is A Choice.

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                • Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                  Not for a great return but I think Bargnani can be traded. So can Gordon. In fact he was traded last year for Maggette. Charlie V I agree is difficult to trade but considering it's his final year it may be possible to trade him too.

                  Funny you mentioned it 'cause I was thinking about Bargnani for Gordon plus ..... or Bargnani for Charlie V plus .... trades.
                  Yeah, those are the type of trades that should be thought of.

                  You are not getting anything useful or promising for Bargnani unless you are taking back some form of a tarnished/overvalued asset.

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                  • Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                    Not for a great return but I think Bargnani can be traded. So can Gordon. In fact he was traded last year for Maggette. Charlie V I agree is difficult to trade but considering it's his final year it may be possible to trade him too.

                    Funny you mentioned it 'cause I was thinking about Bargnani for Gordon plus ..... or Bargnani for Charlie V plus .... trades.
                    Gordon for Maggette was one bad asset for another and is exactly what I am talking about.

                    The difference between the two players was Gordon's extra year on his contract. That extra year was worth a top-12 protected pick for the next 3 drafts and unprotected in 2016 which went from Detroit with Gordon to Charlotte.

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                    • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                      Gordon for Maggette was one bad asset for another and is exactly what I am talking about.

                      The difference between the two players was Gordon's extra year on his contract. That extra year was worth a top-12 protected pick for the next 3 drafts and unprotected in 2016 which went from Detroit with Gordon to Charlotte.
                      Yes, it's one of the things that can be done with Bargnani. If Raps. can compensate the 2nd year of his two remaining years with a pick, they should be able to acquire a player with fewer years remaining on his contract. This player may be able to address a need too. Again it's only one of things that can be done.
                      Attitude Is A Choice.

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                      • Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
                        Yes, it's one of the things that can be done with Bargnani. If Raps. can compensate the 2nd year of his two remaining years with a pick, they should be able to acquire a player with fewer years remaining on his contract. This player may be able to address a need too. Again it's only one of things that can be done.
                        If the Raps send a pick out to trade Bargnani then, come hell or high water, the person responsible should be tied up by testicles.

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                        • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                          If the Raps send a pick out to trade Bargnani then, come hell or high water, the person responsible should be tied up by testicles.
                          Hopefully the person responsible makes a 'Responsible' enough decision so he's not tied up with anything.
                          Attitude Is A Choice.

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                          • Watching the CHI vs BKN and Boozer is the only one who can score for CHI.
                            @Chr1st1anL

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                            • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                              Watching the CHI vs BKN and Boozer is the only one who can score for CHI.
                              Has more than a third of their points, midway through 3rd Q.
                              Twitter - @thekid_it

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                              • Watches the press conference earlier today. Now watching the CHI/BKN. Carlos Boozer fits everything BC/DC were talking about pursing. We would be lucky if some how he dawned a raptor uniform with this group.
                                @Chr1st1anL

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