Steve NashI really toyed with making the headline of this article some iteration of “Nash Gay in Toronto” but instead went with the more appropriate and less page-view-trolling title you see above.

Anyway, it’s been a couple days since we posted anything here, what with Chad Ford’s Mock Draft 6.0 still pegging the Raptors to reach for Dion Waiters of Syracuse, and not much else happening in terms of draft news ahead of this weekend’s Chicago combine.

There was, however, a rumor floating around some Toronto media sites and forums about the Raptors’ plans ahead of the draft and into the summer. It was mostly speculative, but when the rumor chain reaches as high as Marc Stein, we can at least think about it and respond in kind, whether it’s a pipe dream or not.

So, I direct your attention to this article from True Hoop, which states:

”The Toronto Raptors know exactly what they want out of the 2012 NBA draft:

An established, athletic wing man.

And that’s why the Raptors have already made it known to rival teams that their lottery pick on June 28 — No. 8 overall — is available to a trade partner that can provide the elite small forward they seek, according to sources close to the situation. “

The piece also outlines Rudy Gay and Andre Iguodala as the primary targets, with the pick, Jose Calderon, and Ed Davis being potentially tradable assets.

The piece then, of course, mentions what we’ve all been having wet dreams about since he signed on as General Manager of Canada Basketball – that Steve Nash could come play in Toronto. Well, it doesn’t say “could” but implies “the Raptors would get just as wet for this idea as their fans would.”

So is there any chance the Raptors can utilize their #8 pick with their current assets to get a star wing player, thus helping attract Steve Nash here? Well, my big issue with the idea is that it’s very difficult to do without a wink and a nod from Nash letting you know he’ll come here, which is of course against the rules until July 1st, which is of course before the draft on June 28. If you ignore that fact, let’s look at the two intended targets quickly.

Rudy Gay is a great fit in basketball terms, since his scoring prowess from the wing is something the team sorely lacks, and his defensive shortcomings could either be hidden in team defensive schemes or coached away by Casey. In terms of salary, it’s burdensome at $15M for three more years, but the nature of a Toronto franchise, as we’ve learned, is that you may have to overpay for elite talent. A deal of the #8 pick, Jose, and Davis for Gay works under the salary cap, but likely wouldn’t be enough to entice Memphis to make the deal – both Jose and Davis would be backups on their squad, while the #8 pick wouldn’t replace Gay’s production (yet), and the cost savings wouldn’t be substantial enough to comfortably keep O.J. Mayo in the fold. You could throw in another asset somewhere, but nobody with a small enough contract to fit in the deal would really push it over the to, and it would eat some of their flexibility up. Maybe there’s a potential deal here though.

Andre Iguodala seems a great fit in terms of character and style of play, being a defense-first, team-oriented player with versatility in abundance. While he isn’t the elite wing scorer the team needs he’d still become their best one, and is more affordable at $13.5M for two more seasons. Unfortunately, the 76ers have adequate depth and only really lack for the financial flexibility to re-sign Lou Williams and Spencer Hawes, so I’m not sure offering them a Jose/Davis/pick package really fills any needs for Philly – Jose would split time with Jrue Holiday, Davis would split time with Thad Young, and the #8 pick would probably be a shooter to start at a wing (Terrence Ross maybe), while offering next to no financial benefit in the short-term. The Raptors could take back Thad Young to give the Sixers some financial relief ($7.5M for four more years), but then the Raptors need to somehow send assets back that match his production, which is substantial.

So in both of these cases, it’s questionable whether a deal even makes sense for the team sending out the pseudo-star. Maybe a three-team deal is out there, or maybe I’m undervaluing a Jose/Davis/#8 package. Mostly I wanted to throw the article up here to foster discussion, and pose three questions:

1) Would you prefer Gay or Iguodala?
2) What package would it take to get either one?
3) Would Steve Nash sign for 3yrs-$30M (approximately) to play with a team that would look as follows?

PG: Nash, Bayless
SG: DeRozan, Forbes
SF: Gay/Iguodala, Kleiza, Johnson
PF: Bargnani, Amir
C: Valanciunas
Plus the 37th overall pick

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  • I just want to be upfront – I realize these kind of rumors/articles get discussed in the forums pretty often, but I wanted to make a post of it:
    a) because it’s worth having a post about
    b) I’m sure some people read the main page and not the forums
    c) the forums are blocked at work for me

    So…I apologize if this has been discussed to death elsewhere, but I felt we should open it up.

    • mountio

      Appreciate it. Maybe Im slow .. but the forums only appear on the top right once they are a bunch of messages deep and a few days old, and thus are harder to interact on. There is some great stuff by Matt and others in the Gay forum for sure .. but this is a more user friendly way to discuss.

    • BlackAngus

      a) would prefer Gay
      b) depends on team – will take Amir or Davis, number 8 pick and whatever else it takes to make the deal work money wise
      c) there is no way in the world Nash is going to sign in Toronto! He has three years left at best, more likely one or two, and I think his priority is to win a championship, not make a few extra bucks and help rebuild the raps!

      • Nilanka15

        Nash hasn’t said he’s chasing a ring.  Everyone just assumes so based on what Karl Malone and Gary Payton did.

        • Well what is he chasing then? More money? I don’t think Nash is that kind of guy.

          • Tesla

            Cause he’s not

          • FLUXLAND

             Really? He didn’t chase money when he left Dallas?

            • KCool

              The money would have been great if he had stayed in Dallas too, but it was the length of the deal that swung it to Phoenix. He was expected to stay in Dallas but Phoenix offered a 5 yr deal with a partial guarantee for a 6th. That length was important to Nash who was 30 yrs old at the time. Dallas’ counter wasn’t as good. 

              • Bendit

                Not entirely accurate. I understand Cuban offered 4 yrs @ 9 mill (5th partially guar.) and the Suns 6 yrs for 63 mill. That is quite a difference and Cuban decided against matching. 

              • FLUXLAND

                I don’t really think you are recalling the fact correctly. In the end Cubes didn’t offer what Nash wanted and Nash chose more years and more money. And I guess we all know who got the last laugh.  

            • Rob

              At this stage in his career he’s not. He was like what, 30 years old when he joined the Suns? That’s not comparable to now, when the window is closing to win a championship, he has a shelf life of productivity, he’s made enough money now, and he won’t necessarily chase it.

              • FLUXLAND

                Maybe. But on the flip side, if I’m looking at the tail end of my career and no guarantees of a ring, am I taking the money or chasing rings?  (Let’s remember this is the guy that asked if the L was fixed.) I guess it all depends. I’m definitively in the “he’s chasing money” camp. And I do not want Nash in a Raps uniform, it will set the franchise back years – this will only be a marketing move. 

      • Dirt_Squirrels

        If Nash comes to Raps it will be for a number of reasons, the main one of which I believe is cementing his future career in basketball administration in Canada, and what better way to do that than end you career in Canada, helping launch their only NBA team into the next phase, which will be consistently making the playoffs and hopefully win a title.  Steve Nash may be the most famous Canadian basketball name in history, perhaps even more notable than James Naismith.  I think if Steve comes to Toronto, he’s thinking further down the road than 2 or 3 years, he’s thinking about the rest of his life and career, and this would be the right move for him.  He has the chance to improve his already legend status in Canada ad set himself up for life, and I believe if it can happen, it will happen, Steve will play in Toronto to end his career.  People forget Steve Nash is a Canadian, and as a Canadian, Steve has aspirations that may be more important long term than selling his soul for a shot at a ring, like many shallower (American) players before him have.  

        • Destro

          NAsh is south african lol.

          All that other stuff is bs….the canadian nostalgic angle fukk all that….He dont help the team then he can keep it moving…

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      Both BC & Casey said the rebuild/building part of the Raptors was over- what an insult to the collective intelligence of the TDot fan base, so do the win now math not to mention that BC is in the final year of his contract with his 3rd year team option still open (correct me if I’m wrong).

    • Raps Loyalist

      A better strategy to build the team would be to approach Houston with this trade

      Jonas V & Jose (and 2 our second rounders) for Lowry, Dalembert and their 2 first rounders (14 & 16 overall)

      Houston gets a PG to team with the Dragon that doesn’t hate Coach McHale (like Lowry openly does) and a great young prospect at center that they can build around

      Toronto gets some good vets in Sammy D and Lowry (still a young PG) and then we use the #8 pick on center prospect Meyers Leonard and the 14 and 16 picks to fill wing/pg holes


      • Tesla

        No. Lowry is overrated and JV hasn’t played a single NBA game.

        • Raps Loyalist

          Getting two mid-1st rounders would allow the Raps to draft for talent instead of need.  I’m extremely high on J V but getting a lot means giving a lot and I think Leonard could have a very similar career when compared to JV.  If the Raps want to make big moves JV is by far our best chip precisely because he hasn’t played an NBA game yet and has so much potential.

          Gay and Iggy don’t get my juices going unless its a highway robbery type deal.  Trading equal value for them is rearranging the chairs on the deck.

          • Raps Loyalist

            ps. Nash is never coming to T. Dot (except as a GM in a few years).  He’s my favorite player and would love to see it happen but it’s pure fantasy with the roster we have now or would have in these scenarios.

            Nash is a brand that is already huge in Toronto.  He’ll go to a contender in a big market to max his endorsement and brand potential for the long-term.

      • Destro

        I dont get the logic behind wanting Nash here…It makes no sense,the guys 38 and he is going to decline majorly in the next 2 seasons with injuries….If this was 7 years im ok but hes barely a top 10 PG at this stage,why waste all that money and time to go sideways for 3 years…

        Im down Lowry,Dragic or anybody whos young and quick and plays any semblance of defense….The Nash thing never made sense for this team outside of the lame ass selling tickets arguments which is still a lame argument given this team averaged 15,500 last year with a complete bum team void of stars….

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!
  • RapsFanPaul

    If we resign Aaron Gray, who would be an above average backup C, we would be 2 deep at every position. Bargs and Valanciunas are perfect pick and roll/pop options for Nash and would often force teams to rotate defensively that would either leave Derozan or Gay ooen to attack or shoot the open J. 100% a playoff team in the east. Maybe good enough to win a round if Valanciunas is more ready than anticipated. 

  • onemanweave

     The time to get Iggy was when Toronto opted for the Brazilian Beast instead. Gay is a good player. Also an expensive one.
       There are some draft picks available at 8 that might be studs. They might also be duds, but that is the nature of the draft.
       The idea that we’re going to bring in a franchise player through trading is laughable. You will be able to bring in someone who WAS a franchise player, or close to it. Then you can pay him for what he did for someone else.
       Does anyone really think Iggy and or Gay and Steve Nash in his late 30’s is going to vault this team up the the Spurs, Oklahoma, Miami and the Bulls?
       Take your lumps. Let your young players get better and add more. BC’s job security is the only reason to over-pay for lower case stars or franchise players on the way out.

    • Konanas

      Gay is only 26 year old so he can play at least 5 years at highest level

      • AB7.38pt.on.CB4

        Bobcats offering pick N.2 for Rudy Gay. If true he is gone and MJ is not waiting for mgk

        • voy

          all these crazy trade proposals have to be smokescreens, or deliberately leaked false rumours, GMs hope to use as leverage in creating inflated player market value.

          bobcats aren’t anywhere close to winning.  why would they want gay?

    • sleepz

      Bang on.

  • Nilanka15

    Gay is the only [seemingly available] player I would trade the 8th pick for.

    Just say no to Iguodala.

    I think there was a strong case for Nash to sign here even before the Gay rumours surfaced (no pun intended).  If Gay is obtained, Nash would have even more incentive to sign here.

    • Statement

      Why do you prefer Gay over Iggy?  Iggy is cheaper, not that old and is a better player?

      • Nilanka15

        I see Gay as a player who hasn’t yet reached his ceiling, while Iggy has been steadily declining for a few years now.

        You mentioned the age difference.  2 years can be pretty significant within an NBA time frame.

        I’m not concerned about Gay’s salary.  I acknowledge that he isn’t a “max” worthy player.  But I don’t see a 3-year commitment as franchise-crippling.  As CalgaryRapsFan has pointed out, there are many options to maintain financial flexibility and picks, while also acquiring Gay.

        Iggy is probably a better defensive player, but Gay is the superior offensive player (who isn’t a slouch on the defensive end either).  Under Casey, I expect Gay’s defense to improve.

        But the biggest reason is that Gay can create his own shot.  He’s perfectly capable in ISO situations and closing games (I can’t say the same for Iggy).  We haven’t had such a wing player since Carter.  A player like that makes life easier for everyone around him.

      • Because Iggy can’t score and we all know DeMar can’t create his own shot.

  • Sharkey

    Drool to all of this

    In all seriousness, I hate what-ifs but these are incredibly intriguing scenarios.  I don’t know who I’d choose though.  All I know is the key to all of this is Nash.  If you go out and make a trade for Gay or Iggy or whoever and then miss out on Nash and have to settle for Lin, well, we’re screwed.

  • CalgaryRapsFan

    #1 – trade Davis & JJ & #8 &#56 to Memphis for Gay & #25
    #2 – use TPE to acquire Ariza & #10 from New Orleans
    #3 – trade #25 & #37 picks for the highest pick possible (even up to late teens would be great)
    #4 – use #10 pick to hopefully draft Lamb or Lillard
    #5 – use 2nd pick to acquire backup SG/PG (whichever isn’t picked @ #10)
    #6 – once free agency starts, make S&T with Phoenix to trade Calderon for Nash (I would also be completely fine just keeping Calderon)
    #7 – sign Gray with Vet Exception
    #8 – sign Uzoh to minimum contract

    C: Valanciunas, Gray
    PF: Bargnani, Amir, Kleiza
    SF: Gay, Ariza, Kleiza
    SG: DeRozan, ???, Forbes
    PG: Nash/Calderon, ???, Uzoh

    – both ??? would be 1st round draft picks
    – BC would still have the full MLE available

    • CalgaryRapsFan

      #56 pick could either be included in the Memphis trade, or the Raptors could make the pick for Phoenix, to be included in the Nash/Calderon S&T deal.

    • mountio

      You are normally pretty bang on .. but I think you are reaching here in a few ways.
      I think the Gay deal takes DD for sure (and Im not sure you get back the #25 .. but thats a small point)
      TPE for Ariza and #10 makes no sense. Think about it in the context of the previous trade. Trevor Ariza makes $7mm a year for this year and next. Would you trade our #8 pick just to get rid of Amir? HELL NO. We are basically saying its worth Rudy Gay in the previous trade. As a result, #2 on your list is flat our crazy
      #3 .. a #37 pick is worth nothing. Youd be lucky to trade up to #23 or #24 for throwing it in
      #6 – not sure Calderon is a “win” for Pheonix given his contract .. but this one isnt that crazy

      I like your optimism .. but more realistically ..
      #1 happens, but add DD
      #2 doesnt
      #3 doesnt
      #4 doesn (see #2)
      #5 ok
      #6 maybe
      #7/#8 sure .. but irrelevant

      C: Valanciunas, GrayPF: Bargnani, Amir, KleizaSF: Gay, KleizaSG: ???, ForbesPG: Nash/Calderon, ???, Uzoh

      • CalgaryRapsFan

        The two trades were based on rumors that have been making the rounds today, not entirely just pulled from my nether-regions.  lol

        The NO rumor is that they will give the #10 pick to any team willing to take Ariza or Okafor off their hands.  There are very few teams that can do that without giving any contracts back at all (ie: have cap space or TPE).  For me, that would be a great way to essentially replace the #8 pick being shipped to Memphis for Gay.

        Per rumors, Toronto is not willing to give up top talent (I assume this to mean Bargnani or DeRozan) in addition to the #8 pick and providing Memphis with signficant cap savings.  That’s why I figured Davis (in all rumors) & JJ & #8 would work, as it would free up over $11M in cap space for Memphis.  If I’m BC, I push for the #25 pick too, but wouldn’t be overly concerned if it was left out.

        The worse-case net effect of the two trades would be:

        – Gay (starting SF, #1a/1b option on offense, good defensively)
        – Ariza (backup SF/SG, good defensively, only in Toronto for 1 or 2 seasons, depending on whether or not he uses player option for 2nd year)
        – #10 pick (drop 2 spots from #8)

        – Davis (3rd string PF, clears logjam so Amir is definitive backup PF)
        – JJ (backup player at best, replaced in starting lineup by Gay)
        – #8 pick (which gets replaced with #10 pick)
        – TPE (which expires July 31st unless Toronto is over the cap)

        Other than taking the cap hit from Ariza, I think that’s a very attractive WORSE-CASE scenario!

        • mountio

          I could see NO trade the pick to get rid of Okafor ($14 mm), yes, but Ariza at $7 mm I just dont see ..

  • Barry

    Chad Ford:

    I agree that the Raptors are looking to move the pick. They’ve been trying to package it with another young player like Ed Davis and a vet (Bargnani or Calderon). I think they want a big time player on the wing so that they can lure Steve Nash this summer. The guy most people in the league believe they are after via trade is Rudy Gay. If they stay at 8, they want a player who can get to the basket. Thus … Waiters at 8.

    • voy

      wtf? move the 8th pick with ed davis AND either bargs or jose?  Waaaaaaay too much for gay.  almost as ridiculous as taking waiters at 8

      • sleepz

        What do you expect? Lame-duck GM trying to make a splash, not being concerned at all with the long term future of the team he is getting paid to manage.

        • CJT

          Chad Ford is a lame duck GM?  He is the one talking these rumours.

          • Destro

            Yes clearly hes talking about Chad fuckn Ford….fuckn Judas ass poster….

  • Truthkiller

    Man this one reeks of Colangelo’s quick-fixes, if the trade happens its more for his own job security rather than building for the future ala the OKC Model.

    • Nilanka15

      I think we need to lessen our reliance on the “OKC model”.  Every lottery team has been attempting to follow this model for the bast 4 years.  But without a bonafide MVP candidate (who OKC essentially lucked into), none of it is possible.

      • voy

        i think your chances are better of getting an mvp candidate if you playout the rebuilding process rather than try and accelerate it by going after guys who can make you a middle of the pack team.  every contending team needs an alpha dog.  i dont know if rudy gay can be that dog.

      • sleepz

        Maybe but getting Gay is taking them where exactly, with significant financial committments to non all-stars?

        No disrespect to Gay cuz I like his game but not to the point of what Colangelo is about to do.

        We’ve done this before!!!

        • Nilanka15

          I’m not concerned about the lack of all-star appearances.  In the tough Western Conference (Duncan, Dirk, Gasol, Love, Durant, Melo, Griffin, etc.), I’m not going to hold it against Gay for not making this squad.  It’s not far-fetched to think that Gay’s skilled/talented enough to fit in with these guys.

          The consensus amongst those who are against this idea, is the notion that acquiring Gay leaves us incapable of adding talent to the roster.  I simply don’t believe this to be true.

          • sleepz

            No, I agree wih you there. You can still add talent, just not elite draft talent, which is where I think they are going to have to find players to create sustainable winning.

            • voy


          • Lorenzo

            Not to mention that he SHOULD have made it this year instead of Nowitzki.

          • KCool

            Amen to that. 

      • onemanweave

         You can only ‘luck into’ an MVP candidate if you draft one or have one already on your team to recruit others.  The OKC model may take a l-o-o-ong time to hit.  Waiting for someone to trade one to you could take a whole lot longer.
           Every MVP candidate was at one time a collegiate player with upside and not all of them were as evident as LeBron.

        • Dirt_Squirrels

          Exactly.  Did anyone see Steve Nash as an MVP until he actually was one?  Took years for him to turn into the player we all know now.

      • Truthkiller

        I can’t see how bringing in a guy that has been questioned whether he can be the “man” of a franchise will help this team. Are we really going to rely on Rudy Gay and Andrea Bargnani to carry this team… does that not look like the future Atlanta Hawks to you.

        • Nilanka15

          All of my posts involving Gay are written under the assumption that Nash is running the offense next year.  There’s potential to reach the 50-win mark in a weak Eastern Conference.

          Is anyone going to peg us as a title contender?  Hell naw.  But I would much rather cheer for a 50 win team (and a home court advantage) than another 3-5 years of lottery luck, which may, or may not land us a superstar. 

          If we continue to “build” through the draft, we could theoretically be sitting here in 2015 wondering why DeRozan, Davis, Sullinger, and Kabongo are struggling to adapt to the NBA, while the Indiana Pacers are competing for conference championships, lol.

    • Morgan

      This reminds me of Brian Burke at his year-end press conference when asked if the Leafs should follow the Penguins model (who are similar to the Thunder in building through the draft with young players). 

      His response?

      “What’s the Pittsburgh model? They got a lottery. They won a goddamn lottery and they got the best player in the game (Sidney Crosby). Is that available to me? Should we do that? Should we ask the league to have a lottery this year, and maybe we pick first? Pittsburgh model, my ass. I mean, they got the best player in the game in the lottery.”

      In this case, Durant is Sidney Crosby, Westbrook is Malkin.

      • Truthkiller

        Frankly anything Brian Burke says is irrelevant to me considering how his 5 year plan is turning out. Yeah trade away your unprotected pick for Kessel, then see that unprotected pick be the #2 overall pick to a division rival, then see him win a Stanley Cup. 

        • Morgan

          I agree, but he does have a point, and he was won a Stanley Cup before when he did an excellent job with the Ducks, and in all fairness, Kessel is young (24), is one of the league’s top players, and is better than anything he gave up, and Seguin was a non-factor in Bostons playoff run. Everyone pointing to following a model of a talented young team with a superstar is easier said than done, superstars don’t just grow on trees, it takes luck to get them, and takes competent management to build around them. Where OKC earns their points is patience, long-term thinking, exceptional scouting, and the ability to bring good in good complementary players. 

          • Truthkiller

            Exactly patience and long-term thinking something Toronto teams have lacked. The leafs since forever but the Raptors specifically since Colangelo has been here he always has been looking for the shortcut to build a contender and there are no shortcuts in the NBA. You can’t accelerate a building process if there is no core in-place, and that’s exactly what this trade would represent. 

            • Morgan

              Ya, you can’t cut corners and expect to build a contender overnight. Just such an odd move, and if it were to happen, players will be developing at different stages with no legit core in place, and I hope he doesn’t go the quick fix route. 

      • Theswirsky

        there is a great irony there in that he traded away 2 of his first rounders for a overrated player.  He can say all he wants about ‘winning a lottery’ when he was in a position to rebuild Pittsuburg style but threw it away for a quick fix.  What BC is doing is no different.

        A rebuild through the draft takes time.  But this team will be luckier to be a contender without using the draft extensively than they will without using the draft.

        There are 2 types of teams in this league – attractive markets and unattractive markets.  Unattractive markets NEED the draft, attractive markets just NEED money.  Toronto is not an attractive market.

        In fairness BC has shown little capability to draft, trade or sign FAs anyways so it may not matter either way.

        • Theswirsky

          “than they will without using the draft” – than they will with using the draft

        • Morgan

          Hate discussing hockey on a basketball site, but he was top 10 in scoring, still young, and isn’t signed to a ridiculous contract. I wouldn’t call him overrated. Out the picks he threw away, only 1 was comparable in talent, but who knows yet, and the other may be solid at best. The draft wasn’t a particularly strong one either. Toronto would be considered an attractive market for hockey. I’m not drinking the Toronto Make-Beliefs koolaid, he took over a crappy team in 08, and still has a lot of work to do. Personally, he should go Edmonton-Oiler style, this will be their 3rd straight #1 overall pick in as many years.

      • Gman

        Absolutely…how much luck went in to the construction of OKC?  Seriously.  How many things could have happened outside of their control that would have derailed the whole thing? 

        I’m not saying there aren’t things to learn there but we ridiculously oversimplify by calling it the OKC model.  There are many ways to make teams better and there a million pluses and minuses to this so lets not oversimplify…

    • Statement

      The only problem with OKC’s model is that it requires luck. 

      • Truthkiller

        Do you call it luck that they drafted Ibaka, do you call it luck they drafted Westbrook when he was projected to be in the second half of the top 10. It takes hours of scouting to analyze the pieces you need to build a team.

        You trade young pieces either if your getting a superstar or you already have a solid core in place. OKC already had a solid core when they decided to trade away Jeff Green, the Raptors don’t even have an untouchable.

        • KCool

          I call it luck Portland drafted Greg Oden instead of Kevin Durant. 

          • Statement

            Even after the analysts they had hired to translate college stats to the pros advised them, quite heavily, to go after Durant.

            This is according to Jeff Ma, who was the leader of that MIT card counting blackjack team.

        • boshrawr

          You’re hinting at something key in your comment about westbrook. Okc reached and they were rewarded. All this talk about gay and iggy is nonsense and they’re practically unattainable. My point being is that the raptors should just take waiters at 8 and develop him; a couple of spots don’t make a difference. Assuming of course Barnes doesn’t slip to us. If they’re high on him I think they should just go ahead and draft him.

        • Gman

          Yes I call it luck.  Absolutely.  It’s also huge kudos’ to their scouting staff for seeing something maybe others didn’t.  Don’t kid yourself into thinking that luck isn’t a major component in all of this.

          It’s part of the fun actually…



    • CalgaryRapsFan

      Why would they want Bargnani?  They already have a young stud (Gasol) and a fan favourite (Randolph) in the frontcourt.  Plus, that deal would only free up about $6.5M for Memphis, which likely wouldn’t be enough to re-sign all the players they want to re-sign (Mayo alone likely needs at least a $5M raise).

      Davis & JJ & #8 would free up about $11.4M for Memphis, while giving them a couple decent young rotation players and a top-10 lottery pick.  I think that could be enough for Gay (and hopefully for #25 as well).

  • jjdynomite

    Agreed with Nilanka. Problem with the “OKC model” is that they could have easily had a different line-up, with Oden (if Portland picked Durant), Mayo (if Minny/Memphis picked Westbrook) and Thabeet (if Memphis picked Harden). Presti is both smart and lucky. Colangelo is neither

  • c_bcm

    The only way I want Nash on this team is if we draft a pg like Marshall and also trade for an elite-ish SF like R.Gay. Otherwise I don’t see this team taking that next step if the only major acquisition is Nash. If we aren’t taking a big step next season, keep the rebuild nice and steady.

    • Nilanka15

      Agreed on the backup PG.  If Nash is signed, we need his understudy soon (if not this year, next year).

    • onemanweave

       uh, where are we going to get Marshall if the top draft pick is traded away? Don’t think he’ll be there at 34 or 57 or whatever.  If Nash can be signed on a short-term deal and you can keep your #1 pick, great, have at it.
         However trading picks for good players or great, old ones isn’t the way to the finals.  Again, in this draft, you stand almost as good a chance at getting that future all-star with the 8th, or 10th or 14th pick as you do with the second or third.
         If teams are trying to move late lottery or mid-round first picks, get one, don’t trade yours away.  If you draft well, when you bow out in the first round of playoffs, you’ll be better the next year. 
        You have to be ‘lucky’ of course, but there are no risk-free strategies. Gay could get injured, stranger things have happened. Iggy is an athletic wing who’ll lose that jump some day. When?  Nash keeps himself fit,  but with age comes more likelihood of injury.
         There are no risk-free propositions.

  • jeffdg

    I’ll take Sullinger or others on a min contract, vs. Gay at $15mm per season. Save your cap space Raptor fans, it can be better utilized. 

    • CalgaryRapsFan

      On who?  Who/what in your mind would be a better, realistic way to more effectively spend the cap space?

      • jeffdg

        I ask myself, “what would San Antonio or OKC management do with this roster”. And the answer is “patience”. Let opportunities develop. Keep cap space for a few years in a row. 

        And as Hollinger pointed out today:

        “I’m a little worried that BC is trying to rush the process by signing Nash and trading his draft pick.”

        • CalgaryRapsFan

          San Antonio lucked into drafting Duncan because Robinson was injured and OKC lucked into Durant because Portland are morons who didn’t realize the 1970s/80s big C model was outdated.  I am sick of people saying we should follow these two teams, unless you’re talking about always adding good young talent, which Rudy Gay is.

          PS: I didn’t mention Nash, I was only talking about adding Gay.  My heart wants Nash, but my head says no thank you (unless you have a legit PG-of-the-future as his backup).  So on that point, I agree with you and Hollinger (Hollinger didn’t say anything about a Gay trade on its own).

          • jeffdg

            If you think the Spurs and OKC are “lucky”, well, you need a few more years of experience before evaluating properly how organizations are managed. 

            • Morgan

              I think he means they’re lucky in that they had the opportunity to each draft a franchise player. Where they did demonstrate exceptional management and scouting is the drafting of Parker, Ginobli, and Ibaka on the Thunder side, for example. 

              • CalgaryRapsFan

                Thanks, that is exactly what I meant.  Without the luck in those draft picks, we would likely not even be talking about a “Spurs model” or “OKC model”.

                And I wonder if those teams honestly believed at the time that Parker, Ginobli and Ibaka would become the standout players they did.  Maybe they thought they’d become rotation players or had a chance to be special, but I would seriously doubt their confidence in those picks becoming what they did wasn’t very high on draft night.

                • mountio

                  I think people are totally overplaying teh “Luck”. You can argue that Toronto / Denver / Orlando (for sure) got just as “lucky” in drafting Bosh, Melo, DH. The difference is that SA and OKC (both small market teams) were able to build around their guys and not lose them in free agency. Thats the difference between capitalizing on “luck” or pissing it away.
                  I agree, there are only so many Duncans or Durants .. but DH is pretty similar and Orlando hasnt done as well. Melo and Bosh are obviously worse, but they arent that bad .. and TO (awful) and Denver (ok) have had mixed levels of success post drafting these guys.
                  The bottom line is patience is key, gettin high draft picks is key. Part of that is luck, part of that is not worrying about stupid shit like “winning culture” when you are shitty and letting the team lose enough games to get a high probability of a high pick.
                  Anyways .. Im ranting, but lets give credit where credit is due. OKC and SA have done a GREAT job running their franchises

                • The Rub

                   This is what everyone who just points out that SA and OKC got lucky don’t seem to understand.  If OKC wasted their next few years picks drafting guys like Aruajo, Bargnani, and Joey Graham then Durant and Duncan would be carrying those teams to first round losses while every other GM in the league was in their ear about moving as soon as their contract was up.

                  Toronto has gotten as lucky as any other team out there, but it’s what you do with that luck that matters, and we just squander it every time.

                • sleepz

                  What does that mean? You draft players that you want to be part of your organization. Whats the difference what their projections were? Colangelo probably thought that Andrea was going to be a star but that doesn’t stop him from keeping him does it?

                  Lol, this is getting crazy. Organizations draft players because they want them. Do you think when Chicago Bulls drafted Michael Jordan that they thought they were going to get the best player of all time? Were they lucky because they didn’t project the type of success he had his career?

              • voy

                okc played out the rebuild process.  they did not land durant and then say “ok, now that we have one stud, lets trade our future first round picks for a second/third tier star”.  they kept their picks and drafted well. its not as easy as having one terrific player coming out the year you are a one or two in the lottery and saying “ok, we are now set”.

                • voy

                  besides, the model doesnt start the moment you get the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th pick in consecutive years. the rebuilding model starts the moment you understand you have to suck first in order to become an elite team.

                  the leafs commenting on any rebuild process is hilarious.  a team for the past 15 years who have consistently sought out and overpaid middle aged to aging 45-55 point guys should really stay out of any discussion regarding a rebuild.

                • Morgan

                  Of course it’s not all about drafting a franchise player and boom you’re done, I don’t think anyone is arguing that. There obviously is need for competency from management to build around that franchise player, but getting that franchise player is half the story, a big half.

                • Nilanka15

                  I would say it’s more than half.  I would say it’s like 90% of the story.

                  It wouldn’t matter how good Harden, Ibaka and Westbrook are.  Without Durant, that team is not a contender.

                  The same can be said about San Antonio and Duncan.  Manu, Parker, and Leonard are great finds.  But without Duncan, they’re the Houston Rockets.

                • Morgan


                • mountio

                  Ok .. maybe they are the Houston Rockets or Denver or someone like that without Durant .. but Id rather be the Rockets or Nuggets than the Raps!!

          • sleepz

            Instead of criticizing building through the draft as “luck” provide examples of teams that have done it through trade and FA signings and tell me it’s still not “luck”.

            I’m tired of people pointing out the draft is all about luck but not providing a better way of doing things. Like signing FA’s and trading for players to come play in Toronto is all feasible and within reach? You think trading for Gay is taking this team anywhere? Good “luck” with that!

            You think luck wasn’t involved in Boston getting their Big 3? Gimmie a break.

            • Theswirsky

              isn’t it amazing… somehow being able to draft top notch talent is lucky, but trading for it or signing it isn’t.

              Who cares that you need the opportunity, resources and timing to do any of those things.  You’d think the franchise players of the league are always available for Toronto to pick up………

              The Raptors have a better opportunity and more potential to build a contender through the draft than they do through trades or free agency. 

              • CalgaryRapsFan

                What SF likely available @ #8 is sure to be better (or even as good) as Rudy Gay has already proven to be.  Gay will be 26 next season, so it’s not like he’s on the downward side of his career.

                Plus, if a subsequent trade could pickup the #10 pick, where we could conceivably draft the same player we would @ #8, what’s the issue?

                • Theswirsky

                  who cares about a SF?  Take the best talent available.  This team needs a whole lot of new players.

                  The Raps were supposed to be rebuilding, now suddenly they are pigeon holing a position? 

                  The problem isn’t who’s available at 8… the problem is this team somehow thinks it doesn’t need replacements at every position.

                • CJT

                  It’s interesting that Rudy Gay is the Andrea B. or Memphis.  If you read any of their articles or fan sites etc. they feel the same about him as most of you guys do about AB.  He is a good player, but not worth the money that he earns.

                • AB7.38pt.on.CB4

                  As other 100 players in NBA. Anyway Gay is gone cos Bobcats are offering their pick (2)

              • Morgan

                Ping pong balls bouncing around in an air machine, and creating cap space for someone to sign on the dotted line are two different things.

                • Theswirsky

                  Not all teams have the same ability to attract players.

                  Not all players are available in a given year. 

                  Creating cap space means giving up other opportunities

                  there is a lot more to it than ‘signing on the dotted line’ which people like to pass over

                  Lets list Toronto’s top draft picks and Toronto’s top FA signings and Toronto’s top trades…. lets see how that list pans out.

                • Morgan

                  Yeah, but you likened signing/trading players to winning the lottery and getting a franchise player in the draft.

                  While a team can control how much their team sucks, and essentially guarantee a good chance of getting a pick, they cannot guarantee how high that pick will be, randomness and probability does. If you come up with the LeBron James of the draft, more often than not, you lucked out, albeit one should get credit for creating desirable conditions to improve their chances, but it is still not a certainty. Luck.

                  Signing/making trades, however, requires a lot of knowledge, skill, and creativity, knowing what fits, and what doesn’t fit. Not really any luck involved there.

                  You mentioned that not all teams have the same ability to attract players, and I concur, the Raps are one of those teams, which is why they should build through the draft, and it’s something I’ve always agreed with. 

                • Theswirsky

                  yes I likened them because they all carry ‘luck, as per Sleepz point’.  Its not limited to drafting.

        • CalgaryRapsFan

          You also didn’t answer the question about how you would use cap space, despite your claim that it can be better utilized.  If you’re just going to hang onto it for several seasons, why not improve the team with the addition of Gay?  The Raptors have Calderon’s $10M coming off the book next season, which means they’d have over $20M in cap space if nothing is done with the $10-12M available this season.  What is the benefit, to the roster or fans, if all that cap space is just sitting idle?  Gay is a very good 26 year old player, who contributes at both ends of the floor and still has room for improvement.  If not Gay, who better to spend the cap space on?  Any free agent will need to be overpaid to lure him to Toronto, remember.

          • jeffdg

            “Any free agent will need to be overpaid to lure him to Toronto.” <–Not true, and something Raps fans should try to get past. 

            And i answered this already, i wouldnt spend their cap space in free agency, or lock into one overpaid (but talented) player who will assume all of their cap space. They should remain flexible and use it each year, taking on a bad contract for some assets (think a Corey maggette for example). 

            If they were one or two players away, i might agree with you. They are not. 

            • CalgaryRapsFan

              But you’re missing my point.  They have $12M cap space available this year with at least $10M more being freed up when Calderon’s contract expires after this season.  I fully support cap space flexibility.  IMO, they can trade for Gay and improve the team, without sacrificing that flexibility, because of all the money being freed up each of the next few seasons: Calderon’s $10M after one season, Keliza’s $4.5M after one or two seasons (player option for 2nd), Bargnani’s $12M & Gay’s $19M after three seasons.  Plus Gay would very likely still have trade value in the future, should the Raps decide to go another direction.  I seriously doubt he’d become an albatross type of contract and he definitely wouldn’t clog the Raptors’ cap space for years and years.

          • sleepz

            How do you add good young players via the draft when you win 35 games each year and are picking between 15-18?

            There are two sides to each argument.

          • Truthkiller

            Rudy gay is a solid player no question but what more can he improve on, he is just a 20 & 6 guy.
             Lets remember that with Bargnani, Calderon, Demar this team went 20-62 and to think that bringing in Gay will help a         non-playoff team all of a sudden become a larry o’brien contender is laughable.

            • CalgaryRapsFan

              Nobody said the team would be a contender because of the two proposed trades with Memphis & New Orleans.  IMO those trades (in addition to a healthy Bargnani and adding Valanciunas) would substantially improve the Raptors and likely make them strong playoff contenders in the East.  I never said BC can wipe his hands, put his feet up and await sustainable success after making those trades.

              Lots of work still needs to be done, but even taking on Gay’s contract does nothing to limit BC’s ability to continue improving the team this offseason or beyond.  The Raps have lots of money coming off the books after each of the next three seasons, have all their future draft picks, have lots of assets to potentially trade and cap flexibility to pursue talent via free agency.

              Plus, they would have a core group of Bargnani (27), Gay (26), DeRozan (23), Valanciunas (20) and at least the #10 draft pick from this year to build around and see improve internally.  They are young, talented, much improved over last year’s team, with many options and cap flexibility going forward.  These trades are not stopping/stalling the “building” process, but rather swapping Davis & JJ for Gay.

            • Whoever said that bringing in Gay would automatically make us a title contender. It is just another piece that can help us just become a playoff team. I think that with JV, Bargnani, an improved DeMar and whoever comes in as our starting point guard, it can make this team dramatically better. Whether Gay comes or not, we have plenty of cap space to bring a player and fill those missing spots in this roster. I believe this team can get to .500 to get a playoff spot. And what is wrong with 20 & 6, you want LeBron numbers

    • Nilanka15

      Sullinger???  Oh gawd noooooo!   We might as well save ourselves the suspense and go pull Sean May out of the dumpster he’s currently sleeping in.

      • jeffdg

        Sean May; Sullinger is not. That is plainly obvious watching him play. Top 5 pick? I would be hesitant. But at #8 in this draft, he is a good pick. He will be an 18/10 guy in the L, moving between the 5 and the 4. He measured 6’9 today at the combine, which will help him. 

        • Tesla

          6’9″ is a reach.

          • Theswirsky

            no thats his height

            • Guest

              With shoes on.

              • Theswirsky

                as is every other NBA players height.

                • Guest

                  Ya but when someone asks you how tall are you, you don’t include it with shoes on. When you list height for your driver’s licence you don’t list it with shoes on. regardless 6’9″ isn’t that great of a size for a PF…with shoes on

                • Theswirsky

                  they do in the NBA.

                  When was the last time someone mentioned Chris Bosh’s height without shoes?  Tyson Chandlers etc.?

                  NBA heights include shoes.

      • jeffdg

        I think if you read mock drafts, you think Sullinger isnt well liked. But listen to guys who really know their stuff — Like David Thorpe for example — who thinks Sullinger can be another Kevin Love. Love had the same concerns coming out of UCLA. Its really on Sullinger, how much he wants it, and if he can take care of his body. The league is loaded with 6’9 guys with half his talent and skill level. Beside Valanciunas for 5 years, could be the best front line this team has ever had. 

  • voy

    jeeezus.  why would we want a 39 year old point guard so early in our rebuild? 

    rudy gay is a nice piece but I dont know if I would give up my 8 for him.  Again, I dont know if we are at the stage where we look for a rudy gay type player. 

    • Konanas

      Nash is old, but he still can play at least one more season at highest level. Look he almost took crappy Phoenix team in West to PO this year 🙂

  • p00ka_is_a_fish

    You do whatever it takes to get a STUD. Raptors will be making noise next year if they do. Quick run-down in the East:

    – Chicago: No D-rose for 8+ months
    – Miami: Lose tonight and Big 3 era is over
    – Boston: They are “officially old” after this season
    – Orlando: D12 issues
    – Atlanta: They are the Hawks
    – Indiana: Top 3 team
    – Philly: .500 basketball team

    Raptors can easily get a top 4 seed with a lineup of Bargnani, Jonas, Gay, Demar, Bayless/Calderon

    • Nilanka15

      Replace Calderon with Nash 😉

    • Rob

      Good outline of the Eastern Conference situation. The Wizards and Cavs might also show some improvement after this draft though and going forward with picks 3 and 4 respectively to add to Wall and Irving.

      • Konanas

        Maybe Wizards and Cavs can reach the playoffs but nothing more than 7th and 8th seed. Even LeBron didn’t lead the Cavs to PO first year, so Beal and Barnes have less chances

        • Rob

          Ya, doubt they make it, but Beal and Barnes (assuming they draft them) each have a franchise PG to play alongside with. I do think they’ll be pretty good in the future though.

  • Rob

    I’m cautious on how all fingers point towards the Raptors going after Nash. I remember last season, these “sources” had the Raps going after every free agent available, (ex. remember they were the favourite to land Tyson Chandler?”) I don’t see it, but whatever with that 8th pick on June 28th will tell us everything.

  • Phat AlberG

    No matter what raptors need Steve Nash he’s leader and a Hall Fame player who fits the mold and he will take the pressure of the other players as well. I like Gay as player but he is injury prone and I don’t want Iggy here because Derozan can play the same position as SF. Keep the pick draft Jermey Lamb, at 8 he is a steal. He can put ball down on floor and he is flat out shooter with right size athletic ability to play the 2 guard.  

    pg Nash
    sg Lamb
    sf derozan
    pf barg’s
    c Val’s

    • Nilanka15

      That lineup doesn’t impress me.  It will take a few years before Lamb and Valanciunas are consistent contributors.  This team probably wins 30 games (at best) next year.

      • Phat AlberG

        Rudy Gay has missed 47 games in past 2 seasons.  So you want trade your 8th pick in the deepest draft past 10 years for some one who hasn’t played a full season in the past 2 years…. Okaaaaaaaaaay That’s dumb

        • Nilanka15

          lol, he had 1 injury, a dislocated shoulder (not known to be chronic).

          How many games has Bargnani missed lately?  Yet, you don’t seem to have a problem with his durability.  Odd…

  • DC

    Funny how I seem to remember last year BC was giving the kool-aid out that we were in rebuilding mode and we would basically suck this year and that he was concerned with building young talent. My question is what happened from last season that changed his mind for a quick fix next season? What did our young talent play so good or something that i missed? No what happened is BC said ” O shit I only got one year left on my deal, What’s the best way I can aquire middling talent to at least get the eigth seed barring a miracle get knocked out in the first round, so I don’t get canned.” None of these players are gonna lead us to winning anything other then possibly becoming the next ATL Hawks (best case scenario). BC is an idiot if he trades this pick. Cmon Iggy??!!?!? This dude wasn’t even the top scorer on his team and their top scorer averaged 15 a game. So the fuck what he can defend. He aint all that better then JJ. Gay maybe if we trade Bargs straight up for him. But wtf is that gonna do? This is a BC “I have to keep my job move” He’s about to trade away his 8th pick  to get one of these guys with 2 allstar games between them who havent even been close to a ship and definantly are second fiddles at best. BC is a dumb piece of shit if he makes this trade. A possible franchise player could be picked at that spot because this is the deepest draft in recent memory for some 2nd fiddle. If BC was a good GM he would look and try to pick that franchise guy at 8 but he’s an moron so I expect him to trade this pick away. 

    • Lorenzo

      Who are we gonna draft that’s gonna be better than Gay? Jones? Highly unlikely.

      • Phat AlberG

        Jermey Lamb is a UCONN guard trust me when I say this Ray Allen, Rip Hamiltion, Ben Gordon & Rudy Gay… this guy is going to be the next Reggie Miller 

        • Moe

          Signed, Jeremy Lamb’s agent.

        • Lorenzo


  • JD

    1. Renounce Bayless (start with approx. $20M cap room)
    2. Trade [Amir + Forbes] to NOLA for [Okafor + #10 pick] (eats $6M)
    3. Trade [Calderon + J.Johnson + #10 pick] to Memphis for Gay (eats $3M)
    4. Draft Lillard with #8 pick (eats $2.5M)
    5. Sign Nash with leftover cap room ($8.5M)*
    6. Use MLE on Gray + A.Anderson
    7. Use 2nd round picks/minimum contracts to fill out roster

    *If Nash doesn’t sign, backup plans are Dragic/Bayless.

    C:  Okafor, Valanciunas, Gray
    PF: Bargnani, E.Davis
    SF: Gay, Kleiza
    SG: DeRozan, A.Anderson
    PG: Nash, Lillard

    This roster allows us to compete right away while still allowing Valanciunas/Lillard to get plenty of minutes behind Okafor/Nash. JV probably takes the starting job by all-star break and DL gets to learn from the best for 2-3 years.

  • Distraught Fan

    Raps should have tanked the season then we could have been talking about trading or keeping  a #1 or 2 pick which would be significantly more valuable. You have to tank if your goal is to build via the draft and for Toronto that is their only option.

    All teams that don’t make the playoffs should have equal chance to win the lottery, then there wouldn’t be as much tanking.

    The Raps are in a terrible situation and I don’t see any way out of it. Gay is an overpaid bust. Iggie is a good second fiddle who needs to play next to a superstar.

  • HitItHardFromTheBack

    Smh at some of these cats on hurr arguin bout a trade that dont even exist! We ain’t sure if any of this happenin, only way 2 know is to go nd ax BC himself, and he keep em cards close. Rudy got game tho no doubt, in my mind he a top 5 SF, only guys in front be LBJ, KD, Melo, and maybe Granger, Pierce gettin old, Batum maybe be der someday. Rudy is that dude tho…game recognize game hoes do 2…

  • Bradley Dhawan

    many of you fail to recognize that BARGNANI VALANCIUNAS, DEROZEN, GAY, have no peaked yet. The skys the limit 

    • Lorenzo

      Bargnani’s ceiling was the first 13 games of the season

      • AB7.38pt.on.CB4

        D.Casey: Andrea is playing like an All Star

        Yes, I remember

  • Malefax

    I like JD’s plan. If you complained on this thread that we don’t want a ‘quick fix’ you are an idiot: Gay is not a quick fix.

  • Tim

    1) Gay , AI is not a winner and will never be a winner. Wasting a draft picks and young talents on him is the biggest mistake that BC can make.

    2) For Gay, it will be Ed Davis, #8 pick, future #1 pick, Cap relief, DD.

    3) Yes, Give 30 million for 3 years and you can have Nash. Anything less, and he will not come to Toronto.

  • TOraptors

    chad ford tweets

    -Lots of teams buzzing about a Dion Waiters promise. Teams say he’s canceled all upcoming workouts. Blazers, Raptors, Suns all suspects. Not surprised to see a team lock-up Waiters. 

    -After more game film and seeing him dominate in Vegas, teams were going to fall in love

    -Waiters one of the few guys in the draft that could be an elite scorer. He’s No. 8 on our Big Board

    • TOraptors

      so waiters was apprently promised by a team that they’d pick him (raps blazers and suns suspects as ford noted) and cancelled workouts,,,, andd then,, 

      Raptors President Bryan Colangelo — “we did not guarntee anything to anybody” when. Asked about Dion Waiters

      but of course he would say that

      • boshrawr

        On the contrary I have a strong feeling its golden state.

  • hyperdouche

    All this talk of trading the pick to fast-track is crap. Keep the pick. Draft a piece. You don’t have to knock it out of the park, just build up solid players. See Indiana. 

  • Andre

    1) Would you prefer Gay or Iguodala?2) What package would it take to get either one?3) Would Steve Nash sign for 3yrs-$30M (approximately) to play with a team that would look as follows?
    PG: Nash, BaylessSG: DeRozan, ForbesSF: Gay/Iguodala, Kleiza, JohnsonPF: Bargnani, AmirC: ValanciunasPlus the 37th overall pick

    First. That is not an elite playoff team. eight seed was phila. This team is not better then them. There are defensive holes EVERYWHERE. Rebounding would be a problem. This is an incomplete team. Why not stay a course, keep the eigth pick (Perry jones or Barnes) and try to improve via the draft.
    Tashawn Taylor is available, why not try to buy in the draft and get him in the high 20’s? 
    PG: Jose, Bayless, TaylorSG: DeRozen, Forbes, Kris Joseph (37th pick)SF: Johnson, Perry 3, KliezaPF: Bargnani, DavisC: Valanciunas, Amir
    To fill the rest of the holes. we do it through free agency and trades.
    so to answer number 1) NONE 2)N/A 3)No point. 

  • golden

    Really, are we supposed to get excited about a Nash/Derozan/Gay/Bargnani/JV starting lineup?  That would be one incredibly bad defensive lineup – pity JV in his rookie year.  The footspeed disadvantage at each position would be pretty tough to make up for with even the most brilliant defensive scheme.  Casey can only do so much.

    Bringing in guys like Nash & Gay would continue the trend of bringing in and building around one dimensional players (Derozon, Hedo, Bargnani, Calderon, Kapono,… offense only), (Evans, James Johnson, Julian Wright, …. defense only).  You need AT LEAST one player in your core who can play both sides of the ball at a minimum near-all-star level, and we don’t have any. 

    And who is it that actually considers Rudy Gay to be ‘elite’?  He is at best a second-tier, inefficient scorer with below average on defense.   His team advanced further without him last year.  Under no circumstances should we be paying $15M/year for that.  The best two-way wing out there is Iggy, who is a great team guy and who has proven his leadership skills and playoff clutchness – but the time for Iggy in TO has passed.

    I don’t know why BC always has to be so active in floating trial balloons to the media during the off-season.  It really hasn’t amounted to much.  The thing that scares me is that he usually isn’t  blowing smoke whenever rumours do come out.

    I am fine with waiting even 3-4 years, if it looks like we’re building something sustainable.  One dimensional quick fixes that might get us into the playoffs, like Nash & Gay, are a turnoff.

  • Ottythewiz

    Grizz Owner says they arent trading Rudy. Murr Murr. Was fun dreaming about it while it lasted. Alarm just went off, woke up and realized i live in Scraptorland

  • why is nobody mentioning tyreeke evans? though his production might have fallen he is still a legitimate player who is incredibly good given his tenure in the league and can take this team and run wit it. 

  • FAQ

    OKC — built by drafting high
    Heat — built by buying talent

    Raptors — Nash + Gay/Iguodala …. the poor man’s Miami model???

  • Jeev Kiriella

    I cant see Nash signing in Toronto with a team that looks like that. For one the Raps would gace no bench depth abd Nash is at a point where he needs to sign with a contender. Unfortunately that team is not a contending team.