Lowry to New York?

by William Lou December 12, 2013

Black Friday is everyday in the Great White North

Latest trade scuttle: Raptors trying to construct deal with Knicks that would send Kyle Lowry to New York

— Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) December 12, 2013

New York has almost no draft picks to speak of (their 2014 belongs to Houston, 2016 first belongs to us, full breakdown here), so the most likely target is Iman Shumpert, who has been bandied about in trade rumors for months.

However, any trade structured around Iman Shumpert and Kyle Lowry will be difficult without some additional pieces thrown in. New York is (significantly) over the luxury tax threshold, meaning that the total salaries, at least for this season, must be within 125%. Since Lowry makes approximately 6 million dollars this season and Shumpert only makes 1.7 M (lol, only), other pieces must be involved to facilitate such a trade. Something like the following works:

UPDATE (1:39 PM)

Knicks had interest in Denver’s Andre Miller, but focusing now on trying to make deal for Toronto’s Kyle Lowry, sources tell Yahoo.

— Adrian Wojnarowski (@WojYahooNBA) December 12, 2013

UPDATE (1:41 PM)

“And one other.” RT @WaInOBK: @JADubin5 stein said package features ray and one other. Shump isn’t in the deal.

— Jared Dubin (@JADubin5) December 12, 2013

UPDATE (1:45 PM)

Okay, that aforementioned trade seems implausible (Felton is on the books for two more years after this season at ~3.5 M/year). However, if New York throws in a pick (of course they will), something like this should work (Knicks give Philly their 2018(lol) 1st):

UPDATE (1:50 PM)

Knicks, Nets & Warriors all interested in Toronto point guard Kyle Lowry.

— Frank Isola (@FisolaNYDN) December 12, 2013

UPDATE (1:53 PM)

Tough situation for Knicks: With no first-round pick to add, NYK could be confronted w/unsavory option of putting Tim Hardaway Jr. in deal

— Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) December 12, 2013

UPDATE (2:40 PM)

Nothing earth-shattering here, but I’ve been told that Iman Shumpert’s name has come up in the #Knicks trade talks with TOR for Kyle Lowry.

— Ian Begley (@IanBegley) December 12, 2013

UPDATE (2:53 PM)

Shumpert fans, exhale: I’m told chances of him going to TOR in a Lowry deal are slim. Raps not high on him. Knicks prefer to keep (for now).

— Howard Beck (@HowardBeck) December 12, 2013

UPDATE (4:09PM)

According to Adrian Wojnarowski, the Knicks are offering Felton, Metta World Peace and a 2018 first round draft pick.

UPDATE (4:46 PM)

Knicks’ pursuit of Kyle Lowry being held up by Knicks’ refusal to give up 1st round pick, sources say

— Chris Broussard (@Chris_Broussard) December 12, 2013

UPDARE (5:02 PM)

And at last report, Toronto was said to be seeking TWO of the following three: Shumpert, Hardaway Jr., Future First. A bit pricey, I'd say

— Marc Stein (@ESPNSteinLine) December 12, 2013

Tags: trade speculation

thegloveinrapsuniform

This would suck.
http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

If the Raptors can bring in a third team and send Shumpert somewhere else, then they might be able to get a draft pick.
Rick

What a horrible trade if this happens! Iman shumpert and Felton isn’t good. Lowry is playing so great this year. I understand we have to look at deals because he becomes a free agent. But honestly ya a three way team deal would sound a lot better for raptors. Atleast get a 1st rd draft pick.
- over9k
  
  Hence the notion of selling high. Honestly, when I think of a championship team (oh boy), I can imagine Shumpert on it.
- Kevin
  
  You don’t seem to get the point if we make this trade. Lowry will make NY so much better .We need NY to win for once. We don’t need more competition for a top 5 pick. We get worse. NY gets better. It’s a tank move!
  - Dr. Scooby
    
    It doesn’t matter if NY has the worst record by season’s end does it? I mean they’ve already traded away their 1st for the 2014 draft, so don’t you worry none ya hear.
    - Lorde
      
      It does matter scooby,,, if New York was to earn the 1st pick this year, it wud go to Houston
    - Johann
      
      It matters for the raptors if NY has the worst record because that’s what Toronto would like to have. We want everyone except us to win as many games as possible so we can have the highest possible chances at the top pick. We tank not just by loosing games but by making others win more.
  - lino
    
    Great point. They need the knicks to climb the standings to better their own chances. Smart move Masai. Help the bottom feeders out of the basement. I think maybe thats why he made the trade with Sac for Gay hoping the kinds would climb out of the lottery as with the knicks.
- dalton
  
  Im pretty sure Masai is trying to tank the season, i don’t blame him. Whoever ends up with Wiggins, Parker or Randle is gonna have a good chance down the stretch
http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

You guys have to remember that Lowry has an expiring deal, which brings down his trade value quite a bit.
- Jamshid
  
  I don’t agree with that at all. the fact that his deal expires at the end of this season and also is very reasonable , makes him an attractive player for teams that need to be competitive NOW … As you can see , GS, NY and Nets are all teams that “think” they have a chance this year and they NEED to Compete NOW … getting a guy like lowry would make perfect sense for all of them. You go with him for the rest of the year and if he helps your team out then, you worry about signing him off season. For GS, lowry would play the role Jack played last year. He would be their spark off the bench. For Nets with William’s injuries, Lowry would be a reliable back up and for knicks, well, they want to try to compete one more time before Carmelo is gone.
  - http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.
    
    History, and most around the league, say differently. Teams don’t want to give u a lot for a player they could lose at the end of the season. Lots of teams would love to have a guy with an expiring contract, but most teams wouldn’t want to give up a lot for that privilege.
    - jjdynomite
      
      Tim, haven’t read your article yet, but on this point you’re not making much sense, as you’re not considering Lowry as the asset that he is (far better than Gay, especially for backcourt-deficient teams).
      
      As for “losing him at the end of the season”…
      1st: Lowry would be controllable until July 1st for the Knicks to exclusively re-up him.
      2nd: Even after July 1st, the Knicks can offer Lowry, a UFA, more than anyone else, and there’s no reason why the moneybag Knicks wouldn’t offer a 27-year-old quality PG a long-term deal, as they have no cap space until after 2014-2015 to acquire one otherwise.
      3rd: The Knicks are desperate to make the playoffs as they owe their first rounder to Denver (or Orlando, depending which pick is worse), and they’re not gonna do it with (injured) fatty Felton, Prigioni and Udrih. Hence their motive to shell out more than other teams might for a pending UFA.
      
      Masai is in the driver’s seat here. I for one would rather a young sharpshooter like Hardaway Jr. (and Shump) over a *2018* pick considering, well, it’s in 2018; and maybe the Knicks would buy themselves into contention by then — they do clear the books after 2014-2015 — and the pick wouldn’t be that great. Why not stockpile youngsters now when Masai has 4.5 years to go to build a contender?
      - http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.
        
        Considering what the Knicks are apparently offering for Lowry, I’d say my valuation of Lowry is pretty bang on. The Knicks are never going to give up both Shumpert AND Hardaway Jr for Lowry. If they can get one of them, or a mid-first round pick this year they should take the deal.
        
        jjdynomite
        
        I’m not sure using the Knicks garbage offer of that includes MWP is a relevant standard to judge; of course their offer is going to be a lowball one. I’m sure this trade would have been done by now if Masai hadn’t already acquired the 2016 first rounder for Bustnani. I just think waiting until 2018 is ridiculous, as that is hardly a useful asset to rebuild the team — unless, of course, MU can spin the 2018 until something more immediate by the trade deadline, which is highly possible.
        
        http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.
        
        The Detroit deal for Gay ended up being fairly close to what the Raptors got for Gay. I think the deal is close enough that it’s an indication of what Lowry is worth. Fans tend to overvalue their own players, but Lowry’s expiring contract really decreases his value.
      - Raptogram
        
        Hardaway, Shumpert, Derozan, JV, Ross, trade for Barnes, draft Jabari, get a hold of Kemba Walker, keep Amir, Patterson, Vasquez….in 2-3 years this could gel into an excellent team.
        
        Masai should be going for picks or good early 20 somethings….
        
        http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.
        
        How on earth would the Raptors get Barnes withot giving up any of their most valuable players? You don’t think other teams would offer something more than an player with an expiring contract?
        
        And why Kemba. He’s an average PG, but that’s it. I’m not a fan of that roster you’re suggesting, either. Valanciunas, Barnes, Jabari and Amir are nice, but the rest I don’t think are really worth keeping, quite frankly.
        
        Louvens Remy
        
        We could trade for Barnes for all those Draft picks we are stashing. Aren’t draft picks as good as gold?
Antoine Rose

we again wouldn’t have a backup point guard
Kovalainnen

I’d be okay with Shumpert, but I guess that not gonna happen..
Lopez

I’d love to see shumpert in the deal but thats the only piece thats seems worth it to me.
StabbyRaccoon

I like Lowry and I like the Knicks so that would be awesome, but it kind of hurts to get no value back for it. A good small forward for Lowry causing a weakness at the point guard position might be the best of both worlds for tanking and getting value from your trades.
rtzyyz

No Draft pick=bad deal
Chuck Johnson

Tank City here we come!
LeeZ

Meh as far as Knicks involvement. But I’m intrigued as to what GS or the Nets might be able to offer. Any ideas, people?
- DDayLewis
  
  The Nets have nothing of value to offer and the Raptors would have to take back salary. Golden State might give a 1st for Lowry, but they would need to go over the luxury tax to take on Lowry.
  - LeeZ
    
    How about Speights and Douglass from GS? I think the salaries almost match up, and they’re both pretty decent players moving forward but who might help us tank this year due to all the changes we will have made. Thoughts?
    - DDayLewis
      
      They’re both pretty terrible. A first rounder would need to come back.
      - LeeZ
        
        Well then, all the better, even without the pick (although a pick would be nice, of course). Douglass comes off the books after this season, so there’s a further 1.6 million, while Speights has a few more seasons on a very modest contract, and could be a decent enough piece.
        
        DDayLewis
        
        The goal with any tank should be to trade present value for future value, not squander it altogether.
  - One relaxed fella
    
    That might be a very dumb question, but I still gotta ask: do you think that GS would trade Barnes for Lowry? Iguodala has a 4 year contract, so he’s locked for the starting SF position for a long time unless they will trade him at some point.
    
    However, personally Id be looking to get a first rounder in return, that would be best case scenario.
    - http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.
      
      That would be like asking of Golden State is also interested in trading DeRozan for Stephen Curry. In a word, no.
    - mountio
      
      no way in hell, unfortunately for us
- robertparrish00
  
  Reggie Evans!
  - Balls Deep
    
    Valanciunas will turn into an absolute monster practising with both Reggie & Psycho-T every day
Thomas

I’d like to see Masai get Shumpert and a 1st from the Knicks, but they don’t have one for a long time. I’d look somewhere else if I was Masai. Lowry’s value isn’t going to drop anytime soon
jjdynomite

I cannot imagine Masai taking on injury-prone fatty Felton for the next 2 years (8.9 million) unless he gets cheap contracts with upside like Shumpert AND Hardaway Jr.
- Saskatoon Raps Fan
  
  Especially since its the Knicks, if we can get other teams talking the Knicks will panic and sweeten the pot. They have no problem throwing away the future for the present
- DryDry
  
  Felton who has cheeseburgeritis/hamstring issues and is out for 2-3 weeks RIGHT NOW?
  
  That Felton?
  - jjdynomite
    
    Yup, DryDry, which is the reason the Knicks would have to give up Hardaway Jr. to get Lowry. Hardaway Jr. has shown real promise so far, definitely so for a #24 pick (as opposed to, say, Anthony Bennett, heh).
  - honest rap
    
    i will take cheesburger tits with more money to get someone better. CB TITS will be good behind vasquez if he is not bought out.
    - plk
      
      DryDry wrote “cheeseburgeritis”, but I actually prefer your phrase “cheeseburger tits” as a description of Felton.
      - Mack North
        
        yea, cheeseburger tits is much better. haha
- 15strong
  
  Take shumpert and Felton , but only in a three way with golden state.
  We get Shumpert from NYK, flip Felton to GS Warrriors for Toney Douglas and Fezus Fezeli…
  
  We get a upside 3 ball/good defense guy who can play SG or SF, a young backup center for JV and a vet point guard for cheap..
  
  We will still have Salmons, TH and Novak and Fields to trade for future picks.. Remember we have 9 expiring contracts
  - jjdynomite
    
    “Fezus Fezeli” sounds like the name of an Afrobeat Punk fusion band.
    
    But seriously, GSW is hovering close to the cap, so I don’t think they’d take on Felton’s contract, especially since he’s pretty mediocre. Is he really worth $3 million more than Douglas over the next 2 seasons?
Saskatoon Raps Fan

Personally I feel that shumpert is quite overrated. I dont like this unless a future 1st is involved. I’d also prefer hardaway jr over shumpert. I think he’s got more potential in the long run while also contributing more to the tank this yr. either way tho, I hope and trust that ujiri will exhaust all options for getting a 1st rounder this year before pulling the trigger on the Knicks trade
- Regina rap fan
  
  I agree,, we Saskatchewaneers know our basketball
  - TheSpiceTyrant
    
    But not as much as Kindersleyans
    - MooseJawRapFan
      
      Everybody knows that Moose Jaw is the basketball hotbed of Saskatchewan…
      - TheSpiceTyrant
        
        Only fitting raps go for Tony Douglas. Named a provincial park after him, no?
  - Junior Qamar
    
    Im from regina too
morgan c

WE NEED A FRP FOR LOWRY NO IFS AND OR BUTS!
rapierraptor

The Warriors have almost no one of value that they would actually trade. Teletovic could thrive in a better situation and he is a proven scorer so perhaps there’s something to consider there. Either way I think Lowry’s value is worthy of bringing back some sort of future prospect and not just a move to facilitate the tank.
rtzyyz

I say stop dealing with the Knicks… they have nothing of value so why bother?
lino

Can someone explain the advantage here? This seems like a sideways move. Why take on Felton? His deal expires in two years, are we banking on him playing so bad so we can tank? There is absolutely no value coming back? His deal expires so why bring back expiring contracts?
- arsenalist
  
  The only reason we’d ever take back Felton is if the Knicks throw in a first rounder, basically taking on a Knicks problem to get what we want (FRP).
RaptorFan

Tim Hardaway Jr. is the only player that i would want from the Knicks.
- robertparrish00
  
  me too.
The Mega Sage

It looks like new york has a first round pick in 2015. I’m confused as to why people are talking about 2018 as the next available first rounder from them. What am I missing?
- RaptorFan
  
  You can’t trade 2 first rounders back to back…..don’t we own their 2016 first round pick? I know we own one of them after the Bargnani trade.
  - DDayLewis
    
    ^this
- Lawrence C
  
  The NBA has a rule where a team cannot trade consecutive first round picks. The Knicks have traded 2014 and 2016, so they are not allowed to trade 2015 or 2017.
- Saskatoon Raps Fan
  
  They aren’t allowed to trade consecutive 1st round picks. They traded their 2014 pick so 2015 is ineligible. They traded us (or Denver) their 2016 so their 2017 is ineligible hence their 2018 pick is the first available option. Although I believe they could trade their 2015 pick at the 2015 draft
  - Tanks-a-lot
    
    Imagine if that rule didn’t exist.
matt

This is just Masai hoping to sweeten deals from other teams. There’s no way he’s getting Felton and word is he isn’t high on Shumpert. The Knicks have basically nothing to offer
DryDry

Wait for a better deal. Let the Knicks continue their fireball spiral into the toilet.
Anon

Why the hell would the Raptors not be interested in Shumpert? Cheap, potential is there even if waning. It’s not like the Knicks have anything else to offer other than Hardaway Jr.
johng_3

Knicks dumping Felton on us and his crappy contract while he is out for 2-3 weeks. Nice try
arsenalist

Prediction: This two-for-one deal will go down only because Ujiri is creating a package to trade for a top pick. And it’s going to be a huge package which another team will have to take. And yes, that package will contain one or both of Amir Johnson and DeMar DeRozan.
- ItsAboutFun
  
  I don’t know if this trade will do it (hope so though), but I’ve been saying since the summer that Ujiri will be looking for a way to maneuver getting a top pick,,,, without tanking. *fingers crossed*
  - johng_3
    
    Hey he got Denver a lottery pick this year with the Knicks playing so bad. I believe Masai will make the right decision
- LeeZ
  
  I could totally see Amir being given up as part of a package to get, say, a number 10 or so pick. But DD is establishing himself as a pretty good player, improving each year on offence and, EVER so slightly, on defence (the operative word being EVER). The only way I’d put both in a package would be to get back a pick in the top five. Otherwise, it’d just be spinning our wheels.
Thomas

Reportedly the Knicks are preparing to offer Raymond Felton, Metta World Peace, and a 2018 first rounder for Lowry (According to Yahoo’s Adrian Wojnararowski).
Mike

Be prepared to receive three quarters for a dollar on any Lowry trade.
TheSpiceTyrant

Shumpert? NoPert
DDD

i liked lowry
mike, prague

Wow this sucks. The tank job has just been put into nitro-mode.
lino

This is deplorable.

According to Adrian Wojnarowski, the Knicks are offering Felton, Metta World Peace and a 2018 first round
mike, prague

Another player means one more guy being cut as well … Who will it be? Buycks?
- Thomas
  
  reading that MWP would get bought out if the deal went down
ac1011990

Weren’t the Suns interested in Shump this year? They have a few first round picks in this draft, if we take Felton and Suns get Shump while giving us a first round pick that would be pretty sweet.
- http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.
  
  The Suns are owed draft picks from Minnesota, Washington, Indiana and the Lakers for this coming draft. I would definitely like to see one of those instead of one three years from now. of course, in 2018, the Knicks could be complete crap.
  - ac1011990
    
    Ya not really liking the reported offer of Felton, Metta and the 2018 pick. I think the Pacer’s pick is unprotected so that would be a pretty good deal for all teams i think. Ya Knicks would suck, but to long of a wait till then lolz
mike, prague

I like the sounds of Steins’ latest report.
ahoang

nothing less than that.

MWP isn’t going to help long term and would rather pay one of those guys with a much higher upside.
Kovalainnen

Felton + MWP + 2022154185881569 year draft pick..? Don’t even think about it Masai.. that’s a crap..
Honest Raptor Fan

Guys, Lowry is marginally better than Felton.

I don’t understand why rap fans get so connected to mediocre players. Who cares if we deal lowry? He is not a point guard that can lead a team to the mythical “promise land”. He just cant do it. Similar to Jose (regardless how much we love him), we witnessed for many years what exactly Jose could do as a starting point guard, it’s a non-playoff team. Guess what even today at 13-10, Dallas will not be in the playoffs.

Felton is not our guy either, Masai understands this. We either get something or let kyle walk at the end of the season and from what we’ve seen and heard Masai talking about he is about maximizing young inexpensive talent. This trade is not about Felton its about THJR and a first rounder; exactly why the trade has not been consummated yet.

Every dumb comment i see a raptor fan post brings back fond memories of Charles Oakley. Oak confidently and correctly described Toronto fans as “idiots” and later in 2011 had his take on the booing and not understanding the fundamentals of basketball (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/basketball/2011/02/22/17368506.html).

Why we boo Vince Carter is well known. In his interview with John Thompson in 2005 Vince admitted to not playing hard, giving up. This is why we boo Vince Carter and NO we don’t want him back to retire as a raptor. If that still doesn’t upset you that he openly quit maybe looking at his stats that season will. Please see before trade with Toronto and after trade with New Jersey (ill save you the time he pretty much averaged a triple double and started dunking again).

Why some dumb fucks boo TMac, Bosh, and now i’m assuming rudy gay when he returns March 7 is beyond me. They had a contract, they fulfilled their obligation within the contract and decided to explore opportunities elsewhere. Good for them. You all would do the same in that circumstance; circumstance being not wanting to play in front of uneducated people who don’t understand the game and cheer when they get 100 points even when losing (as george karl let the world know).

Speaking of hitting 100, Its fucking embarrassing down by almost 20 points to the spurs that our fans cheered when we hit 100 points, for a now non-existent slice of cheese or pepperoni pizza that has been sitting for hours under a tasty heat lamp. Must have not known that we need to get 100 points AND WIN THE FUCKING GAME!!!!!! Which should be the most important part of cheering for your favourite players at the ACC.

Sorry that was for another post titled Why no top free agent ballers what to play in toronto.

To my point, Kyle is only averaging 4pts, 1ast, 1 rbd more than Felton on a team that caters to Melo and plays a similar iso style to the raptors did pre Gay trade.

I welcome getting something over nothing. I welcome getting young talent back for overpriced mediocre players. I welcome getting great assets like first round picks. The salary cap we will save from this trade and the previous trade will allow us to potentially get a great player in the future if they dont yet know how uneducated the majority of rap fans are about the sport.
- Frank Jeff
  
  The cheering for 100 pts is frustrating as a raptors fan. It’s pretty embarrassing especially when the team is losing. Pretty pathetic
leftovercrack

There are rumors of Raps trading Lowry to Nets for a package including Bojan Bogdanovich, 24. At first I groaned and rolled my eyes, but then I read this article. He’s putting up some good stats

http://www.netsdaily.com/2013/11/22/5134826/bojan-bogdanovic-scores-20-points-in-22-minutes-as-fenerbahce-wins.

After scoring 20 points in 22 minutes Friday, Bogdanovic is now averaging 20.2 points a game, tops in the Euroleague, shooting 57.7 percent overall — 64.7 percent from two point range and 44.4 percent from three — as well as 90.5 percent from the foul line. He is now in the Euroleague top 20 in 15 different categories. The 6’8″ swingman’s game reminds some on the Nets staff of Gordon Hayward’s, a strong, athletic, smooth shooter comfortable in the post or on the perimeter.
desktom

I never signed on to watch the Toronto Expos. This city and sports fans are better then to have to watch the basketball equivalent of the EXPOS !! Trading so we lose , I never thought I would see the day of this once great city being subjected to Montreal Expo tanking. Trading away our competitiveness for something that may or may not happen what a bush league move. Tank this all you gutless loser fans.
Brett Charles Pilon

Shumpert is overhyped, what has he done to earn trade talks like him for Lowry ? or the Manimal ?

I think the 2007 Raptor team's biggest problem was a lack of secondary scoring option. We had Bosh (who was neutralized by Mikey freakin' Moore), and everyone else. Was any team scared of Calderon or Parker dropping 25? Definitely not.

This year, we've got 2 legit scorers in Lowry and DeRozan, and even Salmons and Vasquez have the ability to turn a broken play into 2 points. I'm not suggesting this current team are worldbeaters, but their offense isn't as one-dimensional as the 2007 team, without even saying anything about the improved defense.

Nilanka15

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