Retired journalist Peter Vescey (from the NY Post and the Prudential Halftime Report) says that Lowry is asking for $10-12 million over four years. That would amount to close to a 100% raise over his $6.2 million salary for 2013-14. At 28, such a deal would take him to 32, which isn’t exactly old so I don’t have too much of an issue with the contract, provided it’s back-loaded like most such contracts are.

I do realize that the deal would be based entirely on his contract year performance which is dangerous, however, I do believe that Lowry’s great year was due entirely to finding a good fit with a team and progressing his own game, and not to do with him simply playing harder. He did lose weight coming into the year and was in the best shape of his playing career, which certainly helped and if he can be arsed to continue doing that, this deal is slightly over-priced but far from a cap-crippler like Deron Williams or Derrick Rose’s. It’s more along the lines of Rajon Rondo, which can be argued is fair.

So, yeah, this is kind of what I thought the Raptors would have to pay to retain Lowry. The competition, as Vescey states, could come from the Lakers. Other team searching for a new point guard might be the Orlando, Brooklyn, New York or Miami, but really, only Orlando has the financial leeway to do something about it.

Lowry averaged career-highs in points (17.9) and assists (7.4) last season, which was an increase of 6.3 points and 1 assist from the year before, respectively. He also shot a career-best 38% from three.

What do you think? Could we really upgrade or even go laterally at PG without spending such money?

  • unknown


  • Mack North

    Seriously. Do it…. Do it.

  • Sean Hickey

    Do it. Easy choice.

  • thegloveinrapsuniform

    In the words of Teddy KGB……Pay him… Pay that man his money.

    • Wes mantooth

      He’s lookin for 4 stacks of high society

    • 2damkule

      exactly my first thought, waaaay back when talk about re-signing him came up.

    • The Red Fury

      great reference!

    • Paul

      The very fact that everyone posting here is so in favor of the deal leads me to believe that his market value is higher than reported by the distinguished Mr. Vecsey. It only takes 2 bidders to have an auction and there are enough teams interested to allow Kyle’s agent to extract maximum value. Count on 4 years, 50 million.

  • mountio

    Everyone has said it .. but if this is true, then no brainer decision …pay him. We were talking these kind of numbers before he became the heart and soul of our team down the stretch and through the playoffs. Sure, Id like to have him cheaper .. but to me, this is not an overpay

  • StabbyRaccoon

    Lowry matters a lot for team chemistry and morale too. It’s not only about his skills. they have a good thing going here and 10-12 isn’t that bad to keep the ball rolling. Some smart trades and signs from Masai could probably fill the gaps in the roster even with Lowry’s raise, but your starting point guard is a critical position that you can’t gamble with.

    Edit: oh yeah, that’s even less than the Raptors will save by NOT taking John Salmons’ team option. They’re in good shape thanks to Masai’s good management.

  • 70inches

    This a no brainer…if they can pay Andrea B. 10mil per, then I don’t see why they can’t with Kyle. Show him the money!!

    • Noles

      Colangelo signed that Bargani deal, please… let us know where he is now.. The same guy who signed Kapono, Turkoglu….

      • 70inches

        Don’t forget BC also signed Demar, Landry, Casey(The coach) and Amir. He also traded for Kyle and drafted Jonas and TRoss. You have give credit where credit is due.

        • jjdynomite

          Landry? I didn’t know Carl Landry was on the Raptors. All other Landrys are overpriced scrubs, hallmarks of Colangelo’s reign.

          • Noles

            He probably means Landry Fields, an overpaid bum who has done NOTHING to earn the 6 million he will get this year and the 8 he will get next year. I don’t see how anyone can give credit for that idiotic move that has added nothing positive to the team what so ever.

            • jjdynomite

              Yes, Noles, Landry Fields. I guess I wasn’t Captain Obvious enough for you. Maybe I should have suggested Lionel Richie or Elaine Alden to be more clear.

              BTW your avatar is obnoxious. Change it.

              • Noles

                No need to be all emotional and sensitive like I hit on your Mother on bottomless mug night. Relax. My comment wasn’t directed at you, it was directed at the guy who said Landry Fields was a good move. No need to cry over an avatar.

                • 70inches

                  I’m sure you were one of those guys craving for coach Casey to use Fields against JJ.

                • Noles

                  Regardless of what anyone thinks, including myself… you are the first person I ever come across that likes the Landry Fields signing & the amount & length of the deal. If they were paying him 2 or 3 million I wouldn’t have as much of an issue with it. It’s foolish that Demar, an All Star and one of the top scorers in the NBA last year will only make a million more than Landry Fields who has never averaged more than 10 PPG.

                • 70inches

                  If you comb through all these NBA teams. I’m sure you will find alot of bad contacts like Fields(plus he have been injured with wrist surgery). So don’t hate the playa, hate the game. John Salmons have a bad contract 7mil for next season and Raptors are still on the hook for Marcus Camby’s contact.

                • Noles

                  I don’t hate anyone, I dislike that Colangelo thought signing an over the hill Steve Nash for sentimental reasons was a good idea, and that somehow vastly over paying for Fields was a good idea.

                  Salmons actually has a team option for next year for 7 million that will more than likely be declined.

                • J

                  First time in this chat room. 70 inches, are you implying that Casey shouldn’t have played Fields in Joe Johnson during that series? If so, please explain why, because the way I see it he was the only one that played anything even remotely resembling defence in him all series long (besides Patterson for a short stint in game 7). I’ve heard comments about Fields’ lack of offence, so please offer more than that since Salmons also lacked offence during the series.

            • hyperdouche

              Yeah sure, we all agree he struck out on Fields. It was part of his late tenure grasping to recreate his Phoenix success with Nash. Still, not every GM bats 1.000. He had some duds for sure, but also had a few wins.

              • Noles

                End of the day, Like I said in another comment Colangelo’s record as the GM for Toronto wasn’t that great. 247-337 & 79-151 the last 3 years only making the playoffs twice. I just find that BC made great small moves, but struck out very badly on the big moves…and sadly for him that’s what people will remember.

        • Noles

          If he’s such a great GM and all his moves were so brilliant, why is he not still the GM…why hasn’t he been given a job elsewhere?

          Every GM makes at least a few good moves, and draft picks are decided upon by more than just one person. He traded Roy Hibbert (along with TJ Ford & Rasho ) for a busted Jermaine O’Neal, oh yes.. & Nathan Jawai. Jermaine only played 41 games for Toronto, then he flipped O’Neal to Miami for Shaun Marion and his expiring deal, then used the cap space to bring in Turkoglu for 53 million over 5 years..Signed Kapono for a total of 5 years, yes 5 years for the FULL mid level exception. They were already one of the better 3 point shooting teams in the NBA, and he ignored the real needs the team needed to address. The Rudy Gay trade was a bad move that didn’t work out obviously. It was a desperate move by a desperate man to keep his job. Raptors would of been a bottom of the basement team this year had they kept Rudy around. It was ugly. Paying Linas Kleiza 5 million over 3 years was and is laughable, he played like a 100 games. Drafting PJ Tucker. James Johnson for 1st round pick..really..

          Ultimately Colangelo made pretty good small moves like trading Araujo for Humphries, like trading Villanueva for Ford, his bigger moves were terrible. Lowry and his turnaround have more to do with a conversation with Masai then they do Colangelo, getting Amir for Delfino was a good move, but Johnson’s development has more to do with the coaching staff then Colangelo. Only reason Raptors drafted JV was the nixed Chandler trade after Jordan stepped in and said I don’t think so.

          GM’s get graded on wins & losses…And at the end of the day, the Raptors were 247-337 in his tenure and 79-151 the last 3 years with him as the GM. They made the playoffs twice.

          • hyperdouche

            PJ Tucker started for the Suns this year and was a key part of the team. If the Suns tool-up and keep improving, Tucker is exactly the kind of glue guy you need on a playoff contender.

            • Noles

              PJ wasn’t too bad for Phoenix this year, but this is also 7 years after he was drafted by Toronto and after playing in Europe for like 6 or 7 seasons for 7 different teams and a stint in the D League. It just takes some guys longer to figure it out.

      • robertparish00

        I think I heard Colangelo is landing in Ol’ Sweat-saukee (milwaukee).

        • Noles

          I also read that the Pistons almost hired him… I wouldn’t be shocked if he never sees another GM gig in his lifetime.

  • craptor

    No brainer to give him what he wants. Even if Raps overpay him by a couple of mil over the course of the contract, still would have to do it; better than losing him for nothing. There is nothing in the FA market this year that comes close to the value of Lowry to the Raps. Trying to replace via trade or draft will cost other assets. Give him what he wants right away and not even let the Fakers get a sniff of a shot.

  • DDayLewis

    If that’s where he starts, Ujiri could probably bid him down to ~9 mill, 36 total. If he can somehow front-load that contract, ie: 12 million next season, 9 mill in 2015-16, then 8 and 7, it would maximize flexibility going forward. Lowry at age 32 is an asset at $7 million.

    • Tom

      The CBA won’t let us front-load that heavily.

      • DDayLewis

        Ahh, shit, you’re right. Could do 10.5, 9.5, 8.5, 7.5 though

        • DanH

          Nope. Best you could do, assuming you want a 4/36 deal, is 10.1, 9.4, 8.6, 7.9M.

        • DanH

          Personally, I’d look to offer a good contract for 4 years and tack on a 5th unguaranteed. And I’d valley the contract around 2015 and 2016 to save cap room in those years. So something like 10.1M, 9.4M, 9.4M, 10.1M, 10.9M (1M guaranteed). That’s 40M guaranteed over 4 years, and a Salmons-type deal in the final 5th year. Odds are you’d have to up the offer to more like 11-12M per year to get that final unguaranteed year, but I think it’s worth it. Would look more like 12M, 11.1M, 11.1M, 12M, 11.1M (1.8M guaranteed) – which is 48M guaranteed money.

          • DDayLewis

            Not a bad idea. If the contract is going to be four years in length, it even makes some sense to throw on a player option. If he’s still good at that point, he may opt out for his last deal for guaranteed years. It would give the sense that this upcoming deal is hefty.

            • DanH

              Masai hates player options though, so I doubt we see that.

              • noname

                it’s gonna be a team option if there is a 5th year.

  • Toronto tips

    Anyone who has seen the Nash doc series on Grantland knows that Steve is gonna keep gettin them cheques. No chance he retires which means Lakers would need to find a taker for Nash and his deal. Unlikely IMHO.

    • arsenalist

      Word has it that BC might get a GM gig soon, so you never know.

    • StabbyRaccoon

      as much as we want Steve Nash in Toronto, he’s not worth the contract anymore. Not with all of his injuries. I’d take Kyle Lowry over Nash in a heartbeat these days.

    • WhiteVegas

      It’s also irrelevant if he retires. Retired players count against the cap. You can apply for a career ending injury exclusion if he played less than 10 games the prior season. Nash played 15 last year. So even if he retired, the Lakers still have to pay him and his full salary counts against the cap. Took me 5 seconds to look that up in Larry Coon’s NBA CBA FAQ. No idea why it’s so hard for reporters like Vescey to do the same.

  • Tom

    I’d give him a front-loaded deal: 14,13,12,11. He’s worth it, and it will give us more future flexibility.

    • Raymond

      100% Agree.

    • Slowandlow

      Front loaded for sure but not 50 million. More like: 13, 12, 10, 10

    • TheR3dMenace

      Cap hit is averaged over the life span of the contract, why does it matter in which order the money is dispersed?

      • WhiteVegas

        No it’s not. That’s only for poison pill contracts.

  • JP

    If demar is worth 9.5 per year kyle Lowry is certainly worth 10-12 million

  • ItsAboutFun

    If real, MU should be able to get him for close to the $10M mark, considering the situation he knows, and is part of, here. Much rather see him at that number, as $12M is a tad high, imo.

    • Bryan Colangelo

      12M is a bit high, but my gut feeling tells me he can get that on the open market. He’s worth that much to the team (his popularity in Toronto add value to the Raptors brand overall) but yeah, it hurts our cap situation for sure.

      • ItsAboutFun

        There are VERY few teams with the cap to do that, and the need for a starting PG. There really is very little competition. With Kobe in tow for 2 years, it makes zero sense to go spend big $ on a PG of Lowry’s standing. Who’s left? Milwaukee? Highly doubtful KL would even be talking to them. Orlando? anybody else?

  • Noles

    Lowry was awesome for Toronto this year, but overpaying would be a dumb move and would only hurt the team in the long run. If he loves the team, the city and it’s a good fit as he has said & has been reported taking less money shouldn’t be an issue.

  • Matteemo

    I’m pretty sure we all knew it was gonna take 10-12 per year over 4 years to get this deal done, and I think we all agree it’s 100% worth it.

  • Moewrawn

    Is this even in question, of course give the man 11 mil for 4 years or 10 if you can get him to take it. But really 10-11 mil for a point guard that leads, plays defence, takes charges, grabs rebounds he has no business getting, scoring in clutch situations and is a pretty good distributor. How many players in the league for that price do all those things and do them well? I’d hazard a guess not that many. Finally having a player who’s a vocal leader and not afraid to take the team on his back is probably worth a chunck of change on its own.

    • sleepz

      I really like Lowry but how long has he been doing all those things for consistently?

      1 year, that coincidentally is a contract year.

      Food for thought.

      • webfeatmm

        How long has Lowry been 100% physically healthy and getting starting minutes?

        1 year, that coincidentally is a contract year.

        Food for thought.

  • Mexiballer

    As if Peter Vecsey is a reliable source. ” I am told it’ll take 10-12 per 4 TR 2 retain Lowry”. Told by who? Anyone can say that and it would be true. Anyone can state the obvious. Whatever.

    • jjdynomite

      He’s probably hired as a post-retirement gig to man the Lakers’ PR department.

  • Bryan Colangelo

    Done and done. Maybe you can meet middle by starting at 10 to 11 but adding incentives for making the All-Star Game, playoffs etc.

  • Kate C

    Zach Lowe has recently made some interesting points about how the cap may increase quite a bit in future years, with the TV rights up for negotiation soon and expected to be a healthy increase. What I take from his points is that what may seem like an over-pay now… may not look so bad down the road. If he is correct, paying Lowry now may not seem as cap-restrictive down the road as we are worrying about now. I wouldn’t be comfortable going above an average of $12 million/4 years, but I’d be okay bringing him back at that level. I also think Toronto has to be the best situation from Lowry’s point of view – anywhere else he goes that is competitive, he won’t be “the man”. And I think he’s really enjoying being “the man”.

    • jjdynomite

      Savvy Canadian companies (or Canadian operations of U.S. companies) should start whispering sweet endorsement nothings in Kyle’s ear starting from right…now.

      He practically owned this City in April. And he has a good smile and looks like a normal guy physically. Just not Pizza Pizzacardboard as DD and T-Ross have that deal locked up.

  • Quest

    Pay that man!

  • DanH

    As a note, Vecsey is not reporting 4 years. The tweet translates as: 10-12M per year “for” Toronto Raptors “to” retain Lowry. No mention of length. Just awkward character saving word/number substitution.

  • caccia

    I hope that this gets done soon. Four years at $11 million (U. S.) per year is fair. Nothing else is likely to happen until then because every move that Mr. Ujiri makes, apart from the draft, is dependent on whether or not Kyle comes back.

  • big_mars75

    4 years $42 Million sounds about right for Lowry…

    • noname

      front loaded or back loaded?

      • ckh26

        Shouldn’t matter front or back end loaded as the cap uses average salary over term. However how Kyle actually gets paid is up to his agent to shake MLSE by its heels for how payment is structured. 4 years at 42M… bit rich.. but he put himself in this position and he should be taking advantage of it.

        • noname

          10,5 mil per? That’s not high for Lowry. Not at all.

          • ckh26

            Here’s the compares going into 2014-15… Dragic and Teague in at 8M per…. Conley at 8.5 Jrue Holiday who was an all-start in at 9.9 and Curry at 10.6. Its all in the eye of the beholder but 10-10.5 is in the right range.

            Point Guards
            2014-2015 Salary












            Conley Jr








            • Chef

              But some of those players have improved substantially since signing those contracts.. Dragic would definitely be getting offers of 12/year or more if he was a UFA, steph curry 15 or more.

              • ckh26

                Just stating what fair market value is by contract value. Kyle is in the 10M range. Dragic hurts his negotiating position as does Steph Curry as does Jeff Teague and Mike Conley. The Lowry camp can point to kicking Deron Williams and his 15$M *ss and say with justification that he is in the same class as Ty Lawson/Jrue Holiday and stretch it a bit with John Wall. Raps would like to pay 4 years 38M and Lowry would want 4 years and 46M. Good liklihood they land somewhere north of 41 and south of 43 which is Fair Market Value..
                Unlike Colangelo, Masai Ujuri has shown he will not go all in on one player and hurt his chances to improve the team in other positions. I see the Raps mendoza line on this signing as 11M per year based on compareable players salary and the need to improve/tweak the roster at PF and SF.

                • jjdynomite

                  Your opinion on Masai not “go[ing] all in on one player” belies the fact that he re-upped someone who plays the same position for likely even more money that Kyle will earn (see: Ty Lawson, $48 million for 4 years).

                  (By the way, do you even know what a “Mendoza line” is — hint, it refers to the *low-end* cut-off point, such as Mario Mendoza’s batting average, not the high-end cut-off point for Kyle’s salary negotiations that Masai would walk away from).

                • ckh26

                  Yes I know the Mendoza Line named for one Mario Mendoza and what it means. To me its a line. that connotates failure or success. So like a .200 batting average that either sends you to the minors or keeps you in the bigs the Mendoza Line for Kyle is the salary he signs for that doesn’t cripple cap prospects and yet gets him FMV keeping him in Toronto (the bigs).

                  Yeah he did re-up Lawson for 4 and 48 but Denver’s top 3 guys are all within 750K of each other. Kyle would be out in front by 2.5M here. Could use that money for a couple of end of bench players to have in case of injury.

                  All this goes into the sewer though if LA somehow decides they want Lowry and throw out a 4 year 50M figure. Loyalty is one thing but money talks.

                • jjdynomite

                  Okay, I see that you use Mendoza Line as a general purpose dividing line, which is not its correct usage but whatever. As for the Raptors, who ultimately cares about relative salary between teammates; it changes every off-season. For example, does Landry deserve to make only $1 million less than DeMar next season (and Rudy $10 million more before he got traded)? But the season after next, Fields will be lucky to make the $800K veterans minimum unless he really turns it around.

                  And true, Kyle will likely make 2.5M more than the next highest paid Raptor next year (DeMar), but next off-season is when Jonas is due his extension, and it’s not hard to imagine that unless he royally shits the bed in 2014-2015 or gets grievously injured, a legit 7-foot C who is a plus shooter (both FG% and FT%) is going to give Kyle’s contract a run for its money. To parallel that with the upcoming FA summer, I would bet the house that Gortat will secure a bigger deal than Kyle, as athletic 7-footers don’t grow on trees.

                  Also, the cap is going up, so a million here-or-there for Kyle is not going to prevent Masai from springing for “a couple of end of bench players to have in case of injury”. Moreso when Fields’ and Hayes’ ridiculous contracts come off the books in 2015.

                • ckh26

                  Yes the Polish Hammer will do well this summer. He too will get an eight figure deal. What I am really on is getting value for the money. Spend as much as you need to just get the value out of your decision. I love beer just not at 25 bucks a bottle. :-). Want Kyle but not at a foolish price.

                  Yep Masai gets to clean up the balance sheet so to speak in another year. He gets out from underneath the Fields and Hayes contacts but as your saying he has to re-invest 7.5 or 8 of that 12 that right back into JV.

                  So saving ~ 2.5M with Kyle and getting JV at a fair price (maybe 12 per year ?) along with the expiring Camby .6 aggregates into 7.5 – 8 Mill that we can use to get a quality player above and beyond the core for 2015-16. If the cap goes up by 2 or 3$M it gets those necessary 11-13 bench bodies Saving a buck when you can always pays off down the road. :-)

                • jjdynomite

                  I agree with you there CKH. But I would also add that even though there will likely be no extreme value contracts from the current core in 2015-2016 when JV and T-Ross come off their rookie deals, the Raps will also have this years #20 and almost-a-first rounder (#37), and then the 2015 1st rounder and 2016 1st rounder + 2016 hopefully-still-really-bad Knicks’ first rounder to continually replenish the cheap contracts on the roster.

                  As well, who’s to say Masai won’t package a high-priced piece for affordable undervalued assets, much like he did with Rudy for Greivis and 2Pat (unfortunately having to take back the ballast of Salmons and Hayes to make the deal work, but them’s the breaks when the outgoing contract makes $18 mil/year). I know I’ve called him the Messiah in the past, but I doubt Ujiri can hit on all these mid-round picks — he’s not proven to be Buford/Popovich just yet — but even 2 of the 4 picks and the Raps will be well set up for the future.

                  All things considering, it is far more worth it for the Raps to (over)pay Kyle now then let him go to the Lakers for a couple million here or there and utterly destroy the momentum (and team chemistry) they gained with this season. And it’s not a 2001 parallel either, as Lowry is younger than AD, JYD and (obviously) Hakeem were then, and was the same age as Alvin, and less injury-riddled.

                • ckh26

                  All good points. Isn’t it great to be theorizing on the best way(s) to improve on a 48 win , 3rd place season rather than hoping a miracle happens in order to be competitive.

                  Who do you like with our 20th and 37th picks in the draft this year ?

                • onemanweave

                  If a .200 average keeps you in the bigs, you better be a middle infielder or catcher with 23 Gold Gloves or married to the owner’s favorite daughter — or both.

  • Minks77

    That’s it? Sheeeeeit, get er done!

  • bcharlesconover

    Swaggy P or bust.

  • asifyouknow

    Is a risk for four years because of the way he plays and he is getting older. Man that is a hard one.
    If it was my money I say 3 yr and give him 30 mill.

    • De Colo

      Pay him whatever man, if you sign him for 4 and he’s good for 3, you still got good value out of him, but i expect 4 years of greatness.

  • TheR3dMenace

    This deal get done, no question

  • hyperdouche

    DO IT

  • jakdripr

    Yea I’m down with this. I think this was what everyone pretty much assumed we’d have to pay to keep him. If he can maintain this seasons level of play for the next 2-3 seasons I’d be completely happy with him making that much.

  • tonious35

    FAIR DEAL ’nuff said. Considering the agent wanted Lowry to be mentored by Billups, they won’t douche the deal for both sides.

  • ShadowXL

    I booked that dollar figure on the nail! PAY THAT MAN! Front load, back load, even payout, I DON’T CARE! PAY LOWRY ALREADY!

  • Jensan

    Read the replies, Lowry is worth Stephen Curry Money which is 4/44 million on an increasing scale, if Lowry is a team guy he take 10, 10.6, 11.2 and 12.2. This allows Toronto to put the best quality players around him. If he is selfish he goes 13, 12, 10, 9. Same amount of monies , but is it a team game or is it Lowry first. I believe he has learned that this is a team game.
    His teammates respect him, and he shows it mutually by taking his 4/44 and makes sure the team comes first.

  • Jensan

    Orlando is drafting exum and they have a second pick in the first round which could be a Sf or a PF

  • Stephen Hinneh

    He would make no different impact on the lakers the lakers need people like Jeremy Lin, Rando and Parson or Melo. Not Lowry and Lowry only played good because of the team he is in he wouldnt perform better in a top team like the lakers.